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speedbird 10

flap detents

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HiPete i am trying to set the detents for flaps on the 747-400 pmdg fs9 i have fsuipc 3.99 i have windows 7 and 32 bit ,i have done what it says in the manual to do this it recognises the aircraft and says 7 detents ,but when i go to test it after ,the settings are as follows , on the first detent ,from up should be position 1 still reads up ,2nd detent is flap 5 which reads flap 1 should be flap 5 .3rd denent should be flap 10 still on flap5 .4th detent should be flap 20 but reads flap 10 ,5th detent should be flap 25 ,but reads flap 20 .6th detent should be full flap ,but reads still flap 20 .i have tried a full day trying different gaps between the detents .i have also tried just the method not using detents but the denents i have for the flap lever dont line up the lever is made from a saitek tq ,is there anyway i can increase the positions eg on the spin tab for the detents it seems it need 2 more.also sometimes i get a out off range tone when settting ,if i come out of fsipc then go back all is ok there must be something i am doing wrong ?please can you help,thank you.

regards Steve

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HiPete i am trying to set the detents for flaps on the 747-400 pmdg fs9 i have fsuipc 3.99 i have windows 7 and 32 bit ,i have done what it says in the manual to do this it recognises the aircraft and says 7 detents ,but when i go to test it after ,the settings are as follows , on the first detent ,from up should be position 1 still reads up ,2nd detent is flap 5 which reads flap 1 should be flap 5 .3rd denent should be flap 10 still on flap5 .4th detent should be flap 20 but reads flap 10 ,5th detent should be flap 25 ,but reads flap 20 .6th detent should be full flap ,but reads still flap 20

You need to calibrate more carefully.

i have tried a full day trying different gaps between the detents

The gaps are must less important than the widths of each position, because the increments may often skip smaller settings.

i have also tried just the method not using detents but the denents i have for the flap lever dont line up the lever is made from a saitek tq

don't line up with what? you have hardware detentes?

,is there anyway i can increase the positions eg on the spin tab for the detents it seems it need 2 more.

It only allows the number of positions supported by the currently loaded aircraft. You need no more. Flaps up is detente 0, which is minimum, and full flpas is maximum. set those first BEFORE entering flap detente setting mode.

also sometimes i get a out off range tone when settting

The "beep" only occurs when you try to set a value out of order. They must always increase, left to right, detente to detente. It's nothing to do with 'range'.

Pete

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thanks for your reply .i am carefull with the calibration with the flap detents. this is what i do i put the lever on position just b4 up detent, making sure the spin tab is on 1, i then press the left hand button,then i move the lever to the position just b4 flap fully down,i then click the far right button,ithen move the lever just b4 the first detent and press the centre button making sure the spin tab is still on 1 i then move the lever down just after the first detent and press the centre button again ,i then move the spin tab to 2 and do the same for the next 3 positions moving the spin tab acordinly ,if i get through to the last position i get the same results as my last email sometimes i get as far as position 3 then i get a out off range warning ,and cant seem to clear it apart from doing it all again.i have tried for a whole day without success.should i be in axis flap mode ? only this is what it says in the manual , thanks for your reply

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thanks for your reply .i am carefull with the calibration with the flap detents. this is what i do i put the lever on position just b4 up detent, making sure the spin tab is on 1, i then press the left hand button

Shouldn't that be just AFTER the "up" detente? Otherwise you are not guaranteed any value sent for "up"?

then i move the lever to the position just b4 flap fully down,i then click the far right button

Okay, that's okay.

But when doing all this please watch the numbers. The "IN" number must change. THere is no point setting any values closer than 2 or 3 apart because that level of accuracy is not possible to achieve with analogue inputs with any consistency.

,ithen move the lever just b4 the first detent and press the centre button making sure the spin tab is still on 1 i then move the lever down just after the first detent and press the centre button again ,i then move the spin tab to 2 and do the same for the next 3 positions moving the spin tab acordinly ,if i get through to the last position i get the same results as my last email

It sounds exactly as if the ranges you are allowing are simply not wide enough for the readings to consistently tell FSUIPC which detente is being selected with a jittery or variable input. The quality of components used in these things is just not consistent enough to rely on small ranges. Try making the boundaries much closer to each other than to the detentes. "Just B4" and "Just after" is probably not providing anywhere near enough are large enough range to be seen consistently.

If you like, show me the JoystickCalibration section of the FSUIPC4.INI file, the one with the Flaps detente values showing, and I'll explain using the numbers. Diagrammatically, think of your calibration like this, where * are the hardware detente positions and Up, 1-7, Dn are the calib positions:

UP .*................ 1..*..1.................2.*.2...................3.*.3............... etc ............... DN..*..

whereas you need something like:

..*..........UP..1.......*...........1..2.......*..........2..3..........*.........3..4.......etc......7..DN.......*..

Do you see? This way almost every position BELONGS to one detente or the other, whereas in yours the calibrations are so narrow that through jitter, inaccuracy, timing (from polling intervals) etc, some might be missed altogether -- and also will act differently going down from going up.

sometimes i get as far as position 3 then i get a out off range warning

As I said, that can ONLY happen when you try to set a higher position with a lower "IN" number, and certainly indicates some bad inconsistencies in the axis input.

Watch the numbers and just avoid setting lower ones.

The poorer the quality of input, the wider the detente calibrations need to be, as do the areas reserved for "Nin" and "Max" (Up and Down). If you had high quality levers your method would work better -- the PFC throttle quadrant, for instance, only has an input range of 0-127 at most (whereas I think Saitek's are either 0-255 or0-1024), but the PFC one is much more consistent than Saitek. A wider input range range not equate to better unfortunately.

If you can't do it, but manage to get all positions at least set, show me the lines from the INI file and we'll adjust them manually to give wider ranges. But you should be able to do this the way you are doing it if you think differently, as suggested above.

Regards

Pete

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Shouldn't that be just AFTER the "up" detente? Otherwise you are not guaranteed any value sent for "up"?

Okay, that's okay.

But when doing all this please watch the numbers. The "IN" number must change. THere is no point setting any values closer than 2 or 3 apart because that level of accuracy is not possible to achieve with analogue inputs with any consistency.

It sounds exactly as if the ranges you are allowing are simply not wide enough for the readings to consistently tell FSUIPC which detente is being selected with a jittery or variable input. The quality of components used in these things is just not consistent enough to rely on small ranges. Try making the boundaries much closer to each other than to the detentes. "Just B4" and "Just after" is probably not providing anywhere near enough are large enough range to be seen consistently.

If you like, show me the JoystickCalibration section of the FSUIPC4.INI file, the one with the Flaps detente values showing, and I'll explain using the numbers. Diagrammatically, think of your calibration like this, where * are the hardware detente positions and Up, 1-7, Dn are the calib positions:

UP .*................ 1..*..1.................2.*.2...................3.*.3............... etc ............... DN..*..

whereas you need something like:

..*..........UP..1.......*...........1..2.......*..........2..3..........*.........3..4.......etc......7..DN.......*..

Do you see? This way almost every position BELONGS to one detente or the other, whereas in yours the calibrations are so narrow that through jitter, inaccuracy, timing (from polling intervals) etc, some might be missed altogether -- and also will act differently going down from going up.

As I said, that can ONLY happen when you try to set a higher position with a lower "IN" number, and certainly indicates some bad inconsistencies in the axis input.

Watch the numbers and just avoid setting lower ones.

The poorer the quality of input, the wider the detente calibrations need to be, as do the areas reserved for "Nin" and "Max" (Up and Down). If you had high quality levers your method would work better -- the PFC throttle quadrant, for instance, only has an input range of 0-127 at most (whereas I think Saitek's are either 0-255 or0-1024), but the PFC one is much more consistent than Saitek. A wider input range range not equate to better unfortunately.

If you can't do it, but manage to get all positions at least set, show me the lines from the INI file and we'll adjust them manually to give wider ranges. But you should be able to do this the way you are doing it if you think differently, as suggested above.

Regards

Pete

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Hi Pete sorry to keep bothering you .could the problem be that the up detent on my lever has no more movement? eg the lever is as far as it will go when the lever is in the up detent and the same for the down ,i have tried your way but i cant get any lower than the up position and also the down position on my lever , .i have sent the inl file with this reply hoping this may help , if i calibrate without detents i get all the positions ,but errors as follows >

up is ok detent 1 ok .detent 2 ok dentent 3 just after dentent 3 .dentent 4 is just b4 the 4 detent and detent 5 is up should be flap 25

[flap1] [flap5] [flap10] [flap20] [flap25] thanks for your help regards Steve ps i cant send the ins file it wont let me, so here is a copy as follows . Flaps=-16000,16380/16

FlapStarts=-16384,-14464,-7296,130,4811,16253,16253

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Hi Pete sorry to keep bothering you .could the problem be that the up detent on my lever has no more movement? eg the lever is as far as it will go when the lever is in the up detent and the same for the down ,i have tried your way but i cant get any lower than the up position and also the down position on my lever , .i have sent the inl file with this reply hoping this may help , if i calibrate without detents i get all the positions ,but errors as follows >

up is ok detent 1 ok .detent 2 ok dentent 3 just after dentent 3 .dentent 4 is just b4 the 4 detent and detent 5 is up should be flap 25

[flap1] [flap5] [flap10] [flap20] [flap25] thanks for your help regards Steve ps i cant send the ins file it wont let me, so here is a copy as follows . Flaps=-16000,16380/16

FlapStarts=-16384,-14464,-7296,130,4811,16253,16253

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Hi Pete sorry to keep bothering you .could the problem be that the up detent on my lever has no more movement? eg the lever is as far as it will go when the lever is in the up detent and the same for the down

No, it is nothing to do with that -- because you NEVER want calibration values outside of those positions. Your minimum calibration should be set AWAY from the up detente and the maximum also AWAY. i.e. neither of them AT the detentes and not futilely outside of the movement, which is obviously silly. None of the calibration points should be at any detente -- the idea is to define the whole area around each detente as belonging to that detente so it is always properly selectable!

... here is a copy as follows

Flaps=-16000,16380/16

FlapStarts=-16384,-14464,-7296,130,4811,16253,16253

That's only half the story. Where is the FlapEnds line?

up is ok detent 1 ok .detent 2 ok dentent 3 just after dentent 3 .dentent 4 is just b4 the 4 detent and detent 5 is up should be flap 25

Look at the numbers you've set! -16384 is actually below the minimum of -16000 you calibrated to! There's a huge space from 4811 to 16253 then no space for any others!

You don't seem to be following the instructions at all. This is evident by your idea that you are supposed to set minimum and maximum values outside the lever's range and outside the detentes, which is nonsense. The whole point of calibration is to define points which guarantee you can reach the desired psitions (i.e. the detentes). Please, once you understand what it is you are trying to do I am sure you will find it easy. I had hoped the "diagram" i tried to draw you would have made it obvious, but you seem to have completely misunderstood it still.

Sorry, but i am running out of ways to explain it. It is really so easy -- just divide up the range into areas for each detente. How else could it work? Please think about it and understand it before doing anything. Delete the flaps lines in the INI and start again once you understand.

Regards

Pete

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No, it is nothing to do with that -- because you NEVER want calibration values outside of those positions. Your minimum calibration should be set AWAY from the up detente and the maximum also AWAY. i.e. neither of them AT the detentes and not futilely outside of the movement, which is obviously silly. None of the calibration points should be at any detente -- the idea is to define the whole area around each detente as belonging to that detente so it is always properly selectable!

That's only half the story. Where is the FlapEnds line?

Look at the numbers you've set! -16384 is actually below the minimum of -16000 you calibrated to! There's a huge space from 4811 to 16253 then no space for any others!

You don't seem to be following the instructions at all. This is evident by your idea that you are supposed to set minimum and maximum values outside the lever's range and outside the detentes, which is nonsense. The whole point of calibration is to define points which guarantee you can reach the desired psitions (i.e. the detentes). Please, once you understand what it is you are trying to do I am sure you will find it easy. I had hoped the "diagram" i tried to draw you would have made it obvious, but you seem to have completely misunderstood it still.

Sorry, but i am running out of ways to explain it. It is really so easy -- just divide up the range into areas for each detente. How else could it work? Please think about it and understand it before doing anything. Delete the flaps lines in the INI and start again once you understand.

Regards

Pete

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Hi Pete i am doing it another way now without detents but changing the hardware detents ,anyway thats that problem solved i hope.i have another one i am afraid .When i go into button and switches screen eg to make mouse macros it seems to work for maybe 2 or 3 switches then it gets slower to load the button and switches screen, and in the end it freezes altogether if i leave the screen on it will come back but if i try again it will freeze for good i dont get this problem when i am using axis mode or keys ,the only way to get out of this is to ctrl+alt+del,if i switch of the computer ,then try again it is ok untill i go into the button and switches screen again ,could this be a bug in the program ?i have tried other aircraft but same effect,hoping you can help in this.

regards Steve

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When i go into button and switches screen eg to make mouse macros it seems to work for maybe 2 or 3 switches then it gets slower to load the button and switches screen, and in the end it freezes altogether if i leave the screen on it will come back but if i try again it will freeze for good

Which screen is this, and what is the symptom of the "freeze"? Do you mean the joystick and button numbers don't appear when you press buttons, or only one button appears and won't change when you try another? If you don't mean that screen what screen do you mean?

i dont get this problem when i am using axis mode or keys ,the only way to get out of this is to ctrl+alt+del,if i switch of the computer ,then try again it is ok untill i go into the button and switches screen again ,could this be a bug in the program ?

No, there's no known problem like that. If it is hanging it is doing so in a Windows joystick driver --- it sounds like the USB/Game Port joystick scanner is hanging. Do you perhaps have drivers installed for devices not connected? I've heard of this occurring when someone still had an old game port driver running but no game port device (or even a game port socket -- though many motherboards still have the pins for these).

You could try adding

PollEpicButtons=No

to each of your [buttons] sections in the INI file. That bypasses one type of check FSUIPC makes.

Regards

Pete

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Which screen is this, and what is the symptom of the "freeze"? Do you mean the joystick and button numbers don't appear when you press buttons, or only one button appears and won't change when you try another? If you don't mean that screen what screen do you mean?

No, there's no known problem like that. If it is hanging it is doing so in a Windows joystick driver --- it sounds like the USB/Game Port joystick scanner is hanging. Do you perhaps have drivers installed for devices not connected? I've heard of this occurring when someone still had an old game port driver running but no game port device (or even a game port socket -- though many motherboards still have the pins for these).

You could try adding

PollEpicButtons=No

to each of your [buttons] sections in the INI file. That bypasses one type of check FSUIPC makes.

Regards

Pete

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Hi Pete thanks for your reply ,the screen i mean is the button and switches screen on fsuipc i have looked for old drivers cant find any that are not used .could you be more detailed in were to put this line pollepicbuttons=no.i have just tried it again ,as i am trying to get the fuel switches to work on the pmdg 747-400.it will let me go into the fsuipc screen click on button and switches tab,it will allow me to go into the macro screen ,and click ok, after i have named the macro. when i click on the button and switches tab again it may take this time, about 2 secs to show the screen,i then end macro then i go into button and switches again to make onther macro, it may let me make onther macro but every thing takes more time to load screens.then after this ,every thing starts slowing down eg if i come out off the fsuipc and go back this time it may take 4or 5 secs to show ,now if i click on button and switches the whole program locks up ,and if i move the mouse, as the mouse still moves to the cancel button nothing happens, same as trying to come out off flight sim the only way is to ctrl alt del.

regards steve

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Hi Pete thanks for your reply ,the screen i mean is the button and switches screen on fsuipc i have looked for old drivers cant find any that are not used .could you be more detailed in were to put this line pollepicbuttons=no

As I said, In the [buttons] section, or the specific [buttons ...] section if you are using aircraft or profile specific settings.

i have just tried it again ,as i am trying to get the fuel switches to work on the pmdg 747-400.it will let me go into the fsuipc screen click on button and switches tab,it will allow me to go into the macro screen ,and click ok, after i have named the macro. when i click on the button and switches tab again it may take this time, about 2 secs to show the screen,i then end macro then i go into button and switches again to make onther macro

Why on Earth are you doing that? The 2 seconds is probably reasonable for all the file actions needed if your disk is cluttered or needs de-fragmenting, but you should make all of your macros for one aircraft in one file, in one go. You only visit the Options to start the process off, NOT for every macro! That's crazy! You only go back when you've finished, just to tell it to end macro making!!!

No one else seems to be misinterpreting the documentation in such weird ways as yourself. How did you work out such a weird thing, thinking you have to start and end macro making for every single macro? I can't see how you derive that. You start a whole FILE not a single MACRO!

If I were you I'd delete your INI file, to remove all of your erroneous settings and start again, doing things properly. Or at least delete all of your macro files and the [Macros] section in the INI.

Pete

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As I said, In the [buttons] section, or the specific [buttons ...] section if you are using aircraft or profile specific settings.

Why on Earth are you doing that? The 2 seconds is probably reasonable for all the file actions needed if your disk is cluttered or needs de-fragmenting, but you should make all of your macros for one aircraft in one file, in one go. You only visit the Options to start the process off, NOT for every macro! That's crazy! You only go back when you've finished, just to tell it to end macro making!!!

No one else seems to be misinterpreting the documentation in such weird ways as yourself. How did you work out such a weird thing, thinking you have to start and end macro making for every single macro? I can't see how you derive that. You start a whole FILE not a single MACRO!

If I were you I'd delete your INI file, to remove all of your erroneous settings and start again, doing things properly. Or at least delete all of your macro files and the [Macros] section in the INI.

Pete

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Hi Pete thanks for your explaination i did not realise you can keep the macro screen on,and do all your macros, the main problem was i was looking at old 3.98 instructions i thought it was the same as 3.99 .i am still getting that problem were after a while fs9 slows down then stops when making macro,s , i tried adding the line you said, i think it helps a bit as i can at least do a few macros now b4 it crashes,thanks once again.

regards Steve

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Hi Pete thanks for your explaination i did not realise you can keep the macro screen on,and do all your macros, the main problem was i was looking at old 3.98 instructions i thought it was the same as 3.99

I don't think there was ever any difference. It was always a case of making the whole of a macro file for a specific aircraft in one go.

.i am still getting that problem were after a while fs9 slows down then stops when making macro,s , i tried adding the line you said, i think it helps a bit as i can at least do a few macros now b4 it crashes

There is most certainly something wrong with your FS installation, or maybe the disk drive or its drivers, then. There is no difference adding one macro or many. Each does exactly the same thing. The software does not 'deteriorate' over time, through use. There is something in your FS installation or disk transfer which is blocking.

Regards

Pete

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Hello, well I tried to use FSUIPC joystick calibration to make the flaps functional with no luck. I then hand-typed the following:

FlapStarts=-16384-16219,-15450,-12975,-6980,-573,4606,15600,16217

FlapEnds=-16256,-16200,-15417,-12950,-6950,-550,4644,15650,16384

Flaps=-16384,16384

FlapDetents=Yes

per the example and I when I reloaded, I would get the following:

FlapStarts=-16384,-15450,-12975,-6980,-573,4606,15600,16217

FlapEnds=-16256,-15450,-12975,-6980,-573,4606,15600,16217

it would remove the other pair of -16219, -16200 and reset the Ends the same with the Starts (???). I then tried this:

[Axes]

0=2Y,256

1=2Y,D,-16383,-12743,65758,0

2=2Y,D,-12742,-9104,65758,0

3=2Y,D,-9103,-5463,65758,0

4=2Y,D,-5462,-1820,65758,0

5=2Y,D,-1819,1819,65758,0

6=2Y,D,1822,5460,65758,0

7=2Y,D,5461,9101,65758,0

8=2Y,D,9104,12742,65758,0

9=2Y,D,12743,16383,65758,0

10=2Y,U,16383,12745,65759,0

11=2Y,U,12742,9104,65759,0

12=2Y,U,9101,5463,65759,0

13=2Y,U,5460,1822,65759,0

14=2Y,U,1819,-1819,65759,0

15=2Y,U,-1822,-5463,65759,0

16=2Y,U,-5464,-9103,65759,0

17=2Y,U,-9104,-12742,65759,

But that only worked partially. i747 and Tinmouse don't seem to respond to the FS flap axis and I normally have assigned but require the mouse ....

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Hello, well I tried to use FSUIPC joystick calibration to make the flaps functional with no luck. I then hand-typed the following:

FlapStarts=-16384-16219,-15450,-12975,-6980,-573,4606,15600,16217

FlapEnds=-16256,-16200,-15417,-12950,-6950,-550,4644,15650,16384

Flaps=-16384,16384

FlapDetents=Yes

per the example and I when I reloaded, I would get the following:

FlapStarts=-16384,-15450,-12975,-6980,-573,4606,15600,16217

FlapEnds=-16256,-15450,-12975,-6980,-573,4606,15600,16217

it would remove the other pair of -16219, -16200 and reset the Ends the same with the Starts (???).

It's done that to try to rationalise an erroneous input. You missed the , between the first and second value in the FlapStarts, giving a number "-16384-16219". Try thid:

FlapStarts=-16384,-16219,-15450,-12975,-6980,-573,4606,15600,16217

FlapEnds=-16256,-16200,-15417,-12950,-6950,-550,4644,15650,16384

Flaps=-16384,16384

FlapDetents=Yes

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ah... good catch!!! Well, I corrected and reloaded, re-looked at the ini file and you were correct (as usual), the values remained. The thing is, it's still not working. I move the joystick axis, in this case just using Y (removed elevator option in FS). After I reload, I would assume that the flaps would move somewhere in the middle since the joystick is self-centering (since normally used for elevator) but nothing happens. Also, on the Axis Assignment page, I see "Setup to 10 ranges for actions." I could see that this effects what I tried to do with the :

0=2Y,256

1=2Y,D,-16383,-12743,65758,0

2=2Y,D,-12742,-9104,65758,0 etc.

What can this actually do? I saw a picture of it on page 44 of the users manual but no explanation, and I did not see anything about it in the Adv. manual, or I may have missed it somehow, like the ','

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wow, caught my own oops! Found out I didn't assign "flaps" after sending direct to FSUIPC. All good. I still am wondering about the range question I had above, mainly because some software requires using the mouse to extend and retract the flaps. And also, have you seen this video on youtube? youtube.com/watch?v=Z1q5BhgmCv4. Do you recognize that virtual cockpit? Supposedly FS9 is being used. I asked edetroit but no response.. I would like to obtain/purchse if possible. I hadn't been a fan of vc until I saw that video.

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it's still not working.

Does it work as a flaps axis without the detentes? If not, get that sorted first or there's no chance. All the detentes do is divide the range up into little sections, with the resulting output suiting the correct value in FS for that flap position.

Check by using FSUIPC's axis event logging (Logging tab, left hand side).

After I reload, I would assume that the flaps would move somewhere in the middle since the joystick is self-centering

Neither FS nor FSUIPC obey any axis till it sees it changing. And how will you ever manage to keep a flap setting if it self-centers. Are you going to hold it in position all the time?

Also, on the Axis Assignment page, I see "Setup to 10 ranges for actions." I could see that this effects what I tried to do with the :

0=2Y,256

1=2Y,D,-16383,-12743,65758,0

2=2Y,D,-12742,-9104,65758,0 etc.

What can this actually do? I saw a picture of it on page 44 of the users manual but no explanation

A picture of the above three lines on page 44? No way. If you mean the example of using ranges for specific actions, then the example on that page is for a Gear lever, and it is all explained there, exactly how to do it. What is confusing you?

Pete

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I was trying to say ugh, because I got tunnel vision and 1) didn't see the Flaps options and 2) didn't see page 47 explaining the ranges. I have the flaps working perfectly now with the Joystick Calibration method. I was using a small joystick, again for testing. I normally use Saitek's TQ's for nearly everything else the Yoke doesn't do so self-centering isn't normally an issue. As far as using the [Axis], it too is working but not perfectly but it may be the joystick actuation as it's not very precise. I may need to shift the difference between the D's and the U's values but will worry about that when I get to setting up the Saitek TQ's. So in conclusion, I have the Flaps working with FSUIPC, but except for the rare caes, like Tinmouse II, I just normally use FS assignment for the flaps. It's good to have FSUIPC for those rare case though :). I was wondering if you've seen that video I mentioned above. I am curious what software made that panel. edetroit mentions Edward Cox (not available) and I've searched the Internet, so far, haven't found it.

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I was wondering if you've seen that video I mentioned above. I am curious what software made that panel.

Sorry, no, I've not seen it, and I doubt if I'd recognise a panel in any case as I don't have many add-on aircraft or panels -- my cockpit is a fixed 737NG with no panels (I have real hardware ones and Project Magenta(.

Regards

Pete

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