ES Citation X throttle

[Caphook]

Hello,

Since I don't get support from Eaglesoft I see this forum as my final resource.

I use FSX on W7-64 with FSUIPC 7.476

Problem is the Eaglesoft Citation X 2.0 which was a great plane in FS9 and 2D

Now I upgraded to the FSX version and VC and can't get the throttle going.

Calibrated in FSUIPC as single throttle, a/c ini file changed for Fadec setting. When I release the throttles from their detent, they jump half way to the fadec cruise position. From there I can move the throttles upwards, but I can never get them to idle.

All other a/c (PMDG, Carenado, default) work fine. FS axis have been eliminated.

I do hope somebody can help me.

Regards,

Ronald

[Pete Dowson]

I use FSX on W7-64 with FSUIPC 7.476

I assume you must mean 4.746.

Calibrated in FSUIPC as single throttle, a/c ini file changed for Fadec setting. When I release the throttles from their detent, they jump half way to the fadec cruise position. From there I can move the throttles upwards, but I can never get them to idle.

It sounds like you are using a throttle assignment and calibration which uses a Reverse zone, but the aircraft doesn't support reverse of the throttle axis.

More information is needed really: Throttle assigned in FSUIPC as well as calibrated? If so, assigned by which method (direct or via FS control?), and if to an FS control, to which, the Axis Throttle Set control or the Throttle Set control?

Where are you calibrating: page 1 in the tab (next to ailerons, elevators and rudders)? Or the 4-throttles page? If the latter, have you tried setting the "no reverse zone" option?

BTW this question has arisen before, but unfortunately, so far, after advice the posters haven't returned to say whether or how it was resolved. Check these threads:

http://forum.simflig...hrottle-control

http://forum.simflig...ne-jets-ch-yoke

http://forum.simflig...x-2-with-fsuipc

Pete

[Caphook]

Hello Pete,

Thanks for your reply, again.

I am familiar with the links you provided, actually I wrote one of them myself. There are a lot of posts on the internet about this subject, unfortunately no solutions until now.

Concerning 4.746, of course you are right. Most probably a sudden case of dyslexia lite.

I use the CH yoke and deleted all assignments in FSX. Checked and rechecked and they are not there.

In FSUIPC the program assigned the top left lever to Joy #0 Z axis. Chose "Throttles" and "Send direct to FSUIPC calibration".

Joystick calibration: page 1, Throttle (direct) Min -16380 Max 16380

Before writing this reply I checked the above. Before starting FSX I also checked the Citation.ini file:

LeftFadec=1

RightFadec=1

Throttles=1

FSUIPC=1

So everything should be okay. Started FSX, loaded the plane, released the throttles from their detent and there they jumped to the cruise detent. I could move them forward and back but never lower than the cruise detent.

Now comes the new and exciting part: while doing this I rechecked the Citation.ini and found LeftFadec=2 and RightFadec=2

I closed FSX and wanted to be sure so I had a look at the ini file again: LeftFadec=1 RightFadec=1

This last information is new to me and maybe helpful ? I hope you now have all information needed for a sound judgement

Regards,

Ronald

[Pete Dowson]

I use the CH yoke and deleted all assignments in FSX. Checked and rechecked and they are not there.

Does the aircraft work with FSX generic thorttle assignment?

In FSUIPC the program assigned the top left lever to Joy #0 Z axis. Chose "Throttles" and "Send direct to FSUIPC calibration".

Have you tried using the FS control instead? some aircraft rely on intercepting the FS control -- you may be bypassing that detection.

Before writing this reply I checked the above. Before starting FSX I also checked the Citation.ini file:

LeftFadec=1

RightFadec=1

Throttles=1

FSUIPC=1

I'm afraid those mean nothing to me. I do not know the aircraft at all.

So everything should be okay. Started FSX, loaded the plane, released the throttles from their detent and there they jumped to the cruise detent. I could move them forward and back but never lower than the cruise detent.

I'm sorry, but I'm lost with all that. What is "their detent" you "release" them from, and what is "cruise detent" meant to be -- what throttle value?

Now comes the new and exciting part: while doing this I rechecked the Citation.ini and found LeftFadec=2 and RightFadec=2

I closed FSX and wanted to be sure so I had a look at the ini file again: LeftFadec=1 RightFadec=1

This last information is new to me and maybe helpful ? I hope you now have all information needed for a sound judgement

Sorry, no. I really have no idea. All FSUIPC assignment and calibration does for you is manipulate the numbers sent with controls. The standard Throttles controls are AXIS_THROTTLE_SET (the generic all-engine one you seem to be using) and AXIS_THROTTLEn_SET (where n=1 to 4). Those are what FSX itself sends if you assign there, and you could do the same in FSUIPC. If your aircraft works with FSX assignment, I'd start in FSUIPC doing it the same way.

Otherwise you need to find what values are needed by that aircraft for its various throttle positions or ranges.

Regards

Pete

[Caphook]

Yes, I also tried through FS with same results Peter.

Fadec is an automatic engine control based on a certain fixed position, like cruise, climb and take off. Each position has a detent. When the throttles are in fuel cut off position, they are locked and have to be released to get to idle.

In this a/c you use a mouse click spot to release the throttles from their locked position. Hope this clarifies.

Meanwhile I got sick and tired of this issue and lost the fun in this plane, in spite of all the fun in FS9. I am grateful for your willingness to help but now I am giving up, takes way too much time. I´ve got a couple of days left to exercise the refund option.

Thanks again Pete !!

Ronald

[Pete Dowson]

Yes, I also tried through FS with same results

Well it certainly needs support from the aircraft maker then. Maybe it's designed only to be used with mouse and keyboard? Isn't there any documentation? seems odd you can't use a throttle lever.

Fadec is an automatic engine control based on a certain fixed position, like cruise, climb and take off. Each position has a detent. When the throttles are in fuel cut off position, they are locked and have to be released to get to idle.

In this a/c you use a mouse click spot to release the throttles from their locked position. Hope this clarifies.

Sounds like you need a set of buttons to me. You can of course use the range assignments for an axis and program different controls to be sent as the lever passes through different zones. Sounds like you need to do it that way.

Meanwhile I got sick and tired of this issue and lost the fun in this plane, in spite of all the fun in FS9. I am grateful for your willingness to help but now I am giving up, takes way too much time. I´ve got a couple of days left to exercise the refund option.

Arent their other users of this aircraft? Is there a Forum where you can ask? If not, try the FSX Forum here or the AVSIM one.

Regards

Pete

[Caphook]

Appreciate your positive tone of voice Pete, makes me smile after all.

Yes, there are forums and Eaglesoft also have a forum and there are an awesome lot of posts concerning throttle issues.

But nowhere you can find what is actually the reason of this funny behaviour of the Citation X throttles and what can be done about it.

It looks like this plane is a closed book for them. Just too bad.

Regards,

Ronald

[reading1871]

Hello,

Since I don't get support from Eaglesoft I see this forum as my final resource.

I use FSX on W7-64 with FSUIPC 7.476

Problem is the Eaglesoft Citation X 2.0 which was a great plane in FS9 and 2D

Now I upgraded to the FSX version and VC and can't get the throttle going.

Calibrated in FSUIPC as single throttle, a/c ini file changed for Fadec setting. When I release the throttles from their detent, they jump half way to the fadec cruise position. From there I can move the throttles upwards, but I can never get them to idle.

All other a/c (PMDG, Carenado, default) work fine. FS axis have been eliminated.

I do hope somebody can help me.

Regards,

Ronald

Hello

Use the Citations config panel to set the aircraft up to start as cold and dark, reload the CX then run through the startup sequence.

once the engines are started and the aircraft set up as you like it, save the flight, use that in future alternatively always start cold (much more fun anyway)

One other thing, this CX does not like being loaded after the default flight has been loaded into the Sim, so I always load the CX directly from the freeflight screen, never after a default aircraft.

Also have a look at your throttle axis in the windows calibration axis, any jitter there and all bets are off as far a getting the fadec to work reliably.

[Caphook]

Reading1871, thanks for trying to help me.

Use the Citations config panel to set the aircraft up to start as cold and dark, reload the CX then run through the startup sequence.

once the engines are started and the aircraft set up as you like it, save the flight, use that in future alternatively always start cold (much more fun anyway)

This is standard procedure for me, always cold and dark, much more fun indeed.

One other thing, this CX does not like being loaded after the default flight has been loaded into the Sim, so I always load the CX directly from the freeflight screen, never after a default aircraft.

This is the sentence that gave me hope, maybe I have been neglecting this? I just tried it again, unfortunately no result. After using the clickspot the throttles immediately jumped halfway the console.

Your input was highly appreciated though.

Regards,

Ronald

[Pete Dowson]

This is the sentence that gave me hope, maybe I have been neglecting this? I just tried it again, unfortunately no result. After using the clickspot the throttles immediately jumped halfway the console.

Unless you have changed FSX's options to stop it loading a flight initially, it will be too late once you get to the initial menu. Find your FSX.CFG file and add or set "DisablePreload=1" in the [Main] section.

It's worth doing this in any case if you always select from the Menu, as it makes FSX load quicker.

Regards

Pete

[reading1871]

Reading1871, thanks for trying to help me.

This is standard procedure for me, always cold and dark, much more fun indeed.

This is the sentence that gave me hope, maybe I have been neglecting this? I just tried it again, unfortunately no result. After using the clickspot the throttles immediately jumped halfway the console.

Your input was highly appreciated though.

Regards,

Ronald

Hello

When starting from cold and dark, at the point where use the clickspot to introduce the fuel my throttle jumps forward halfway.

At this point if you move your physical throttle quickly forward and then fully back the aircrafts throttle moves back to idle.

The aircraft does not jump at this point as the engine is still spooling up and full thrust never has time to happen.

Try it and see if it helps.

[Caphook]

Unless you have changed FSX's options to stop it loading a flight initially, it will be too late once you get to the initial menu. Find your FSX.CFG file and add or set "DisablePreload=1" in the [Main] section.

It's worth doing this in any case if you always select from the Menu, as it makes FSX load quicker.

Regards

Pete

This is an improvement, thanks Pete

Hello

When starting from cold and dark, at the point where use the clickspot to introduce the fuel my throttle jumps forward halfway.

At this point if you move your physical throttle quickly forward and then fully back the aircrafts throttle moves back to idle.

The aircraft does not jump at this point as the engine is still spooling up and full thrust never has time to happen.

Try it and see if it helps.

This is a situation I remember from FS9. Unfortunately now the throttles only go back to the cruise detent.

There is one remarkable thing I noticed though: before I start FSX I check the Citation.ini and I see that left and right Fadec, Throttles and FSUIPC are all =1

After I closed FSX left and right Fadec are =2 and Throttles and FSUIPC are still =1.

Unfortunately I have no idea what this could mean.

Regards,

Ronald

[blueskybob]

ES Citation X w/ Saitek Pro Flight Quad and FSUPIC

After fighting with my new ES Citation X 2.0 w/ FSUPIC and Saitek Quadrant, I discovered a remedy to the problem with Saitek throttle detent held at the halfway point. After installation , I noticed entries: "FSUIPC=1" and "Throttles=1". I decided to punt and use the keyboard. So I left everything as is ( FADEC setttings were both "1"), and change to "Throttles=0" (prescription for using keyboard throttle control). I discovered that the throttle is now fully functional, all the way from "cut" up to max, and every point in between. Hot Spot below each throttle toggles on/off to "cut". Everything working perfectly. Apparently the throttle entry recommended by ES is not required if you're using FSUIPC. I'm going to pass this by ES techs to see why this works. Interestingly, after 1 flight after making the change, the two FADEC entries changed themselves to "2". I think I saw this happen to someone else in another post.