FSUIPC "forgets" about my CH Yoke

[WebMaximus]

I'm using FSUIPC for both axis and buttons assignment for my CH Yoke, CH pedals and Saitek TQ and from time to time my assigned buttons on the CH Yoke stop working and I then have to go to the FSUIPC menu, go to the Buttons + Switches tab and then click a button on my CH Yoke. This is always recognized and after this all buttons work just fine again until it happens next time.

Is this a known issue or did I miss something at my end in setting everything up...?

TIA,

[Pete Dowson]

I'm using FSUIPC for both axis and buttons assignment for my CH Yoke, CH pedals and Saitek TQ and from time to time my assigned buttons on the CH Yoke stop working and I then have to go to the FSUIPC menu, go to the Buttons + Switches tab and then click a button on my CH Yoke. This is always recognized and after this all buttons work just fine again until it happens next time.

I doubt whether you really have to go to a specific tab and click anything. I suspect just going into the options and coming out again would do it.

This is almost always due to the devices going to sleep because of Windows cuttin USB power. You need to go into the Windows Device Manager, fing every USB hub device and switch power management off in each one.

Also make sure that if your devices are connected to an external hub it is a powered hub.

If you are using Windows 8 I think that also has a bug which causes it to lose connections with devices.

Regards

Pete

[WebMaximus]

Hi Pete and thanks for your reply and input! Sorry for my late getting back to you, thought I chose to be notified via email when there's an answer but never received any email so maybe it didn't stick.

Anyway I checked the power management for my USB hubs and they all have power management disabled, I was already pretty sure this was the case since I'm well aware of this being a very common cause of all kinds of problems if you don't disable power management for them. So...must be something else causing this.

I'm not 100% sure but if my memory servers when this happens I think the axises of the yoke still work, it's only the buttons that stop working and should the problem have been caused by the yoke going into some kind of sleep mode I guess the axises wouldn't work either?

Will do some more flying and verify this next time and will also try to reconnect the yoke or maybe even change USB port just to make sure I don't have a connection problem causing this.

[WebMaximus]

Hi again Pete,

You were fully correct all I have to do when this happens is to go into FSUIPC via the Add-on menu in FSX and then click OK and my yoke is working fine again so that's good. I also found out I was wrong when I said the axises are still working when this happens, they are not. However the hat switch/POV is working when the other buttons and axises are not and the difference is I have the POV switch mapped via FSX and all other buttons and axises via FSUIPC so it appears whatever it is happening FSX is able to cope from this issue automatically where FSUIPC requires me to follow the procedure where I open FSUIPC and then close it again with the OK button.

Trying to understand why this happens in the first place I found a small utility that will log all USB events whenever a USB is connected/disconnected. Today I was lucky enough to sit in a cold & dark state in the NGX at the gate when it happened and since there were no other sounds I was able to hear the typical sound you usually hear in Windows when a USB device is connected. However I never heard the similar sound you usually hear when a USB device is disconnected. Anyway after I heard this sound sure enough the yoke was not responding with the exception of the POV button and when I then went into FSUIPC and then closed it again with the OK button the yoke was working fine again.

So...at this point my conclusion is that for some reason I can't understand it seems as my yoke for a split second disconnects/reconnects and when this happens FSUIPC will not be able to pick it up again without me starting FSUIPC and then close it again but FSX manages to pick it up by itself and that's why the POV button continues to work even after this has happened. When I think about it I started having this issue after I decided to fully abandon the control setup in FSX and do everything via FSUIPC instead.

Will let the USB logging utility I found be running for some time so I can actually see what is happening and have "proof" that it actually is my yoke that disconnects/reconnects by itself. Then I guess next step is trying to find out why this happens...if it's a software or hardware issue. I haven't tried changing USB port yet since I'm a bit afraid that will mess up all my assignments I did for the buttons on the yoke but I don't think there's a problem with the USB port of the cable because I tried pushing the USB connector at the end of the cable from the yoke in all possible directions when it still was plugged in trying to force a disconnect it the contact was poor but nothing happened...it stayed connected just fine.

If I*m not able to find what is causing this is there any way to have FSUIPC poll the connected devices in the same way FSX seems to be doing this since the POV button never is affected by this problem or do you have any other suggestions I could try? It's very frustrating when this happens in-flight and especially when it happens at a bad time like when you're on short final and speaking to online ATC...

[WebMaximus]

OK, just completed a flight from ESSA-EKCH-ESSA and after landing at EKCH on the first leg the a/c was standing with GPU connected for about 20 minutes before I started to prepare for the return leg back to ESSA and when I got back to the a/c the yoke didn't respond again. I then checked the log in the USB log utility I found and installed prior to the flight but nothing was in the log...ie no USB disconnects/connects had been recorded and yet FSUIPC again lost the connection with the yoke for some reason so now I'm really puzzled what exactly is happening here and why...

[Pete Dowson]

Will let the USB logging utility I found be running for some time so I can actually see what is happening and have "proof" that it actually is my yoke that disconnects/reconnects by itself.

That is certainly the problem you need to address. Maybe a bad connection someplace.

I haven't tried changing USB port yet since I'm a bit afraid that will mess up all my assignments I did ...

Please check the section in the FSUIPC user guidle about Joy Letters. If you change to using the Letters for joystick identifiers rather than numbers then FSUIPC will take care of matching the assignments for you. Just do it before experimenting.

If I*m not able to find what is causing this is there any way to have FSUIPC poll the connected devices in the same way FSX seems to be doing this

If FSUIPC were to keep rescanning and remaking assignments all the time your controls would be really really jerky. It isn't a short process. it has to scan the registry and do all sorts of Windows direct input calls to get the list of devices. It simp;y is not feasible, and most certainly sohlud not ever be needed. It is already able to do a lot more in this than FSX. I cannot explain your success with FSX assignment -- are you sure it copes with all axces and buttons? Try pulling the plug and pushing it in a gain. Here FSX has to be completely restarted to recover!

since the POV button never is affected by this problem

Only the POV? Are you sure the POV wouldn't continue to work in FSUIPC? Why are you not assigning it in FSUIPC in any case?

Pete

[WebMaximus]

That is certainly the problem you need to address. Maybe a bad connection someplace.

Please check the section in the FSUIPC user guidle about Joy Letters. If you change to using the Letters for joystick identifiers rather than numbers then FSUIPC will take care of matching the assignments for you. Just do it before experimenting.

If FSUIPC were to keep rescanning and remaking assignments all the time your controls would be really really jerky. It isn't a short process. it has to scan the registry and do all sorts of Windows direct input calls to get the list of devices. It simp;y is not feasible, and most certainly sohlud not ever be needed. It is already able to do a lot more in this than FSX. I cannot explain your success with FSX assignment -- are you sure it copes with all axces and buttons? Try pulling the plug and pushing it in a gain. Here FSX has to be completely restarted to recover!

Only the POV? Are you sure the POV wouldn't continue to work in FSUIPC? Why are you not assigning it in FSUIPC in any case?

Pete

Hi Pete,

Not sure if you saw my last post before this one? Yesterday I had the problem again when FSUIPC lost connection with the yoke and while the USB logging utility was running and no disconnects/connects had been recorded so the way I see it it must be something else happening.

I'm already using Joy letters but despite this I had a problem once when all my assignments got lost. Luckily I was able to manually fix it by editing the fsuipc.ini file where I found the old GUIDs and I then did some copy/paste to fix it but maybe I did something wrong setting the Joy letters up in the first place if you say FSUIPC should be able to fix ths all by itself with no user intervention.

I see what you mean by having FSUIPC scanning for the devices all the time.

Reason I have left the POV button assignment to FSX is I wasn't able to get the same smooth operation of this button when I tried setting it up via FSUIPC compared to have it assigned in FSX.

Maybe I'll try to change USB port and if that will mess up my assignments I guess I'll just have to deal with that but I'm not very confident changing USB ports will make any difference since I already tried the USB connection thoroughly by wiggling the USB cable in the USB port which didn't result in any connection issues so it seems very stable.

[Pete Dowson]

Not sure if you saw my last post before this one? Yesterday I had the problem again when FSUIPC lost connection with the yoke and while the USB logging utility was running and no disconnects/connects had been recorded so the way I see it it must be something else happening.

All FSUIPC access to devices is by standard Windows interfaces. It receives data from active devices, and not from others. There's no actions taking place inside FSUIPC to disconnect things. If something stops responding it is because FSUIPC is receiving nothing from them.

I'm already using Joy letters but despite this I had a problem once when all my assignments got lost. Luckily I was able to manually fix it by editing the fsuipc.ini file where I found the old GUIDs and I then did some copy/paste to fix it but maybe I did something wrong setting the Joy letters up in the first place if you say FSUIPC should be able to fix ths all by itself with no user intervention.

I wonder if that problem was not related to this other one you have. Seems there's a general problem with USB on your system.

Reason I have left the POV button assignment to FSX is I wasn't able to get the same smooth operation of this button when I tried setting it up via FSUIPC compared to have it assigned in FSX.

So you don't really know if the POV still works in FSUIPC, nor if the other controls don't in FSX? .

Sorry, but there really is nothing else FSUIPC can do to help here. It isn't overly complex code, just standard DirectInput.

Regards

Pete

[WebMaximus]

Hi again Pete,

Maybe you're right I have a general USB issue, however the issue I've described here is the only USB problem I've seen so whatever the USB issue is it must be minor since it only will affect the yoke inside FSX.

After writing my last post I found another utility where I could list all USB devices that ever was connected so to clean things up I removed all devices listed that currently were not connected hoping this might fix the problem.

Regarding the assignment of the POV button you're correct this is the only button I'm sure isn't affected by the problem. However before I had all buttons and axises assigned via FSX and never saw this problem.

[molleh]

I don't know if this is the same issue you might be experiencing, but the front panel USB board in my PC case was defective and I didn't realize it. What was happening was, the USB devices attached to it would occasionally "disconnect" for a split second if the USB cables were nudged in even the slightest way. Most games/software could continue using those USB devices without issue but I found that FSUIPC would "lose" the affected devices once the cable was nudged, and required a restart of FSX to get them back. I had to request a replacement front panel unit from my case manufacturer to take care of this.

[Pete Dowson]

... I found that FSUIPC would "lose" the affected devices once the cable was nudged, and required a restart of FSX to get them back.

They must have been assigned in FSX, not in FSUIPC, if FSX needed restarting, as FSUIPC will re-detect them by simply visiting the options.

I'm surprised "most games/software" don't notice disconnections, because they are fatal when DirectInput is used. However, I may do some research to see if I can spot a way which doesn't involve continuous scanning, as when the options menu is entered. I think I can get automatic notifications of disconnection, but I don't know how much more efficient I can make the reconnections.

Regards

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

I think I can get automatic notifications of disconnection, but I don't know how much more efficient I can make the reconnections.

Okay, please download and try FSUIPC 4.864, now in the Download Links subforum.

I actually had most of the code needed in place already, for the HID device facilities in the Lua COM library, so I just made it call the same device re=scanning as used when you enter FSUIPC options. It only does this when notified, by Windows, of a HID device disconnection or reconnection. There will therefore be two such scans if a device momentarily disconnects. This will certainly cause a glitch in the control actions. but will at least recover without having to visit the FSUIPC options.

Let me know how you get on with this, please.

Testing here by pulling out a USB device and plugging it in again does produce a definite pause in flight (two -- one for out, one for in), but the control does then contiune operating. I may try differentiating between connection and disconnection -- ignoring the latter probably as something it can't really do much about. That should reduce the pausing slightly.

Regards

Pete

[WebMaximus]

Thanks a lot Pete for looking into this and trying to find a good work-around, it was something like this I was hoping might be possible to do so great you found a smart way doing it. During all my years in this community I've always found it very impressive how some people and you are most definitely one of them continue to give to the community in an endless strive trying to make things better and you really deserve a golden star for it Pete!

Back to this issue and it might be too soon to say for sure but it seems I managed to fix the issue by doing what I wrote above, clean up my USB devices getting rid of lots of old devices. Since doing that I haven't had one single problem with the yoke. For anyone else with similar problems who would like to try the same thing I did you can find the freeware utility I used here -> http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/usb_devices_view.html

[Pete Dowson]

Thanks a lot Pete for looking into this and trying to find a good work-around, it was something like this I was hoping might be possible to do so great you found a smart way doing it.

It isn't yet as smart as I'd like, causing too much of a hesitation or pause wen a USB device does have a disconnect/reconnect event. I hope to find a better method, if not today then when I return from holiday on 1st April.

[LATER]

Okay, FSUIPC 4.865 is as good as I can make it. The hesitation is still there --- in fact it is there no matter whether FSUIPC does anything or not, so it is inherent in the Windows or FSX side of things in any case. 4.865 logs a message when it does the reconnection action.

Regards

Pete

[Bob Church]

Hi WebMaximus,

There's a setting in the Advanced Options for your Power Plan to enable/disable "Selective Suspend", which can be the cause of that. Have a look at this thread over at the CH Hangar:

http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/showthread.php?8694

It might be worth a try.

Best regards,

- Bob

The StickWorks

http://www.stickworks.com

[WebMaximus]

Thanks Bob but I already checked that and it's set to 'Disabled'.

I thought I had the problem fixed by using the clean-up tool I mentioned above but yesterday I had the same problem again and this was when using the latest version of FSUIPC Pete mentions above but still the only way I could fix the problem was to go into FSUIPC and then close it again.

[Bob Church]

Hi WebMaximus,

Okay. Thanks for letting me know. Are you using Windows 8 or one of the earlier version. Windows 8 seems to be seeing a lot more of that, I was wondering if it was perhaps the reason. I tried in Windows 7 and they default to "Enabled", Windows 8 does too, but they may have adopted a more agressive power saving strategy with Win8 than was in Win7.

Does it happen while you're flying, actually moving the controllers, or just if you let it sit without giving moving any axis at all?

Anyway, thanks again for the feedback. I'm trying to see if I can pin it down and get a workaround, but it's a slippery problem. Every new data point helps.

Best regards,

- Bob

The StickWorks

http://www.stickworks.com

[WebMaximus]

Hi Bob,

Thank you for your interest in my issue. I'm on Windows 7 x64 and I've mainly seen the problem when I haven't used the yoke for a while like when sitting at the gate between two legs or during cruise on autopilot. When I think about it I don't think I've ever seen the problem while actually using the yoke so in that regard it feels more like some kind of timeout problem rather than a connection issue. However if it indeed would be a timeout problem it's strange I don't always see the problem after x amount of time.

I will do some flying today again and see what happens. Like I posted above it almost felt for a while like the problem was solved after I did that cleanup of old USB devices when I was able to complete a number of flights without any problems. So...I'll keep my fingers crossed that last 'disconnect' I had was a one-time-only type of issue.