"any mix" of axis assignments/calibration per FSUIPC4 guide - feasible?

[dsillers]

Dear Mr. Dowson,

 

At the risk of revealing too much about the sad state of my aging brain, I’m wondering whether you could clarify a point regarding Peter Hayes’ appendix on axis assignment in FSUIPC4 (pp. 55 and following in the FSUIPC4 guide).

 

Mr. Hayes identifies four options for USB controllers:

( a )  rely on the software included with the controller;

( b ) rely on FSX only, using Windows’ own calibration routine;

( c ) use FSUIPC4 only to assign and calibrate axes; and

( d ) any mix of the above.

 

He then proceeds to explain option ( c ) in detail.

 

My question is whether option ( d ) is indeed feasible, and if so, how.

 

As I read this option, the instruction to UNTICK “Enable Controllers” in FSX seems to be an essential part of this approach.  If so, I’m not quite sure how one can then mix elements of ( a ) or ( b ). 

 

My reason for asking is that I face a dilemma:  I have followed option ( c ), and in all respects except one, am very happy with it.  The one exception is that this setup seems to leave my yoke (CH FlightSim) completely dead when I open the PDMG 777 (though it works fine with the 777NGX).  Indeed, the only way I’ve found to operate the PDMG 777 is to temporarily uninstall FSUIPC4 by moving the DLL file.  That immediately wakens the yoke (after re-ticking “Enable Controllers.”)  However, this approach seems pretty inelegant, and is certainly annoying.

 

As you probably already know, the instructions for the PDMG 777 state that the program is fully compatible with FSUIPC except that one should not calibrate one’s flight controllers through FSUIPC.  That exception is what got me thinking about the Appendix mentioned above – specifically the “any mix” option. 

 

At this point, you may have concluded that I’m barking up the wrong tree entirely.  If so, I wonder if you could point me in the right direction – one that would allow me to fly the PDMG 777 without having first to mess with my FSUIPC files every single time.

 

Many thanks in advance,

 

Don Sillers  

Edited July 7, 2015 by dsillers

[Pete Dowson]

My question is whether option ( d ) is indeed feasible, and if so, how.

 

As I read this option, the instruction to UNTICK “Enable Controllers” in FSX seems to be an essential part of this approach.  If so, I’m not quite sure how one can then mix elements of ( a ) or ( b ). 

 

I think he must be referring only to the calibration elements, not the assignments. You must only assign in either FSUIPC or in FSX, because otherwise you'll get conflicts. But if you asdsign in FSX you can calibrate in FSX (really in Windows, in fact) or in FSUIPC, or both.

 

Calibration can operate no matter where you assign.

 

The one exception is that this setup seems to leave my yoke (CH FlightSim) completely dead when I open the PDMG 777 (though it works fine with the 777NGX).  Indeed, the only way I’ve found to operate the PDMG 777 is to temporarily uninstall FSUIPC4 by moving the DLL file.  That immediately wakens the yoke (after re-ticking “Enable Controllers.”)  However, this approach seems pretty inelegant, and is certainly annoying.

 

As you probably already know, the instructions for the PDMG 777 state that the program is fully compatible with FSUIPC except that one should not calibrate one’s flight controllers through FSUIPC.

 

I didn't know they say that -- I don't have any PMDG aircraft. But the reason probably is that they intercept the axis controls at the same level as FSUIPC's calibration does.  Of necessity, if FSUIPC is calibrating then it has to grab the controls before they reach FS and manipulate the numbers according to your set wishes. It then feeds them back into FS -- but this has to be at a lower level than where it is intercepting them (obviously, else infinite loop!). This effectively bypasses the code in your 777.

 

All you need to do is turn off the FSUIPC calibration for those specific axes in the Profile you create for the 777, and rely on PMDG's efforts to provide good control instead.  This need not affect any other aircraft -- that's the beauty of using profiles.

 

Oh, of course you must, for that profile, make sure your throttles are assigned to the normal FS controls -- Axis throttle1 set, etc. the normally recommended "Direct to calibration" of course also bypasses the hooks the 777 will be using.

 

Pete

[dsillers]

Brilliant -- thanks so much for the quick (and clear) response!

[pschlute]

I imagine the reason PMDG say what they do is that the real 777 has a flybywire system which is similar to the Airbus philosophy of  the computer intercepting the pilots inputs, and producing an output to the control surfaces which the computer thinks is best. The PMDG 777 will try to replicate this, and needs normal FSX inputs for it to work, otherwise you will probably lose things such as bank angle/stall protection, and not get the control surfaces to move correctly. Should only apply to aileron and elevator controls.

 

The Airsimmer A320 (FS9)  has the same requirements. The PMDG MD-11 is the same for the LSAS system, although in that I find I can assign in FSUIPC as long as select "send direct to FS9".

[dsillers]

Gentlemen, 

 

Just to close the books on this matter -- Kyle Rodgers over at the PMDG forum immediately spotted my problem -- namely my own failure to read the 777 manual carefully enough.  It turns out that the 777 gives the pilot the option of stowing the yoke by pressing down on the top, which I seem to have done inadvertently. That meant that the yoke on the screen wasn't responding to any movements of my physical yoke/joystick, even though the elevators and ailerons were moving, which I didn't notice because I never looked outside.

 

Thanks again to you both for your suggestions, which I will apply as soon as my head stops hurting from the smack I gave it when I finally discovered the problem ...  

 

Don

[Florida]

Can I hijack this thread with a similar problem? I have been successfully using ONLY FSUIPC for my Saitek X-55 controllers and the PMDG fleet. The controllers in FSX (SE, if it matters) have been turned off. But awhile ago, I deleted my FSUIPC.ini file due to other conflicts, and started over again assigning controls to all of my aircraft again. I just installed the Real Air Turbine Duke, and set up everything with no problems. I want to add here that every aircraft I set up in FSUIPC is configured as "profile specific." I don't use generic settings for anything.

 

Yesterday, I loaded up my trusty PMDG 737NGX for a short hop from KABE to KFLL, and noticed immediately that I needed to re-assign the X-55 to everything. All went well with the axes: ailerons, elevator, rudder, brakes, trim wheel, speed brake...until I got to the throttles. I usually set these up using the same method as the others: Send directly to FSUIPC Calibration, choose Throttle1 (or 2), and then calibrate with FSUIPC.. This time there was no response from the throttles at all...nothing. So I tried using the other choice, Send to FS as a Normal Axis, choosing Axis Throttle 1 (or 2) Set, and once again calibrating. Nothing. The numbers move during the cal, so FSUIPC is seeing the controller.

 

Now let me state that I am well aware that I shouldn't be using FSX for my controllers if I am using FSUIPC, also. But it was only when I went to FSX, activated the controllers, and ONLY activated Throttle 1 and 2 that I got any response, and then it was the reversers that activated when I moved the throttles. So I went back into FSUIPC and removed  the throttle settings, and then the throttles started working. Now, in the past, I had this aircraft and the 777 working fine with FSUIPC only. So I am in a quandry right now as to what I probably messed up, and how to fix it. I haven't tried the 777 yet, but will do so shortly. I will also inquire in the PMDG forums to see if there may be a solution over there, but I know that Pete is THE law with his product and can probably point out my problem.

 

Addendum - similar problems with the 777 - when I activate either throttle (using FSUIPC, FSX controllers off), the reversers AND the spoilers activate - no throttle response.

[Pete Dowson]

Yesterday, I loaded up my trusty PMDG 737NGX for a short hop from KABE to KFLL, and noticed immediately that I needed to re-assign the X-55 to everything. All went well with the axes: ailerons, elevator, rudder, brakes, trim wheel, speed brake...until I got to the throttles. I usually set these up using the same method as the others: Send directly to FSUIPC Calibration, choose Throttle1 (or 2), and then calibrate with FSUIPC.. This time there was no response from the throttles at all...nothing. So I tried using the other choice, Send to FS as a Normal Axis, choosing Axis Throttle 1 (or 2) Set, and once again calibrating. Nothing. The numbers move during the cal, so FSUIPC is seeing the controller.

 

I think the PMDG aircraft all need to intercept the throttle inputs themselves, so you CANNOT calibrate them in FSUIPC. Just assign them to the regular Axis_throttleN_set controls (sending to FS, not direct to calibration), and don't calibrate in FSUIPC.

 

You are actually adding to a thread in which this answer was clearly provided by myself in the second entry. Did you not read the thread before adding to it?

 

... similar problems with the 777 - when I activate either throttle (using FSUIPC, FSX controllers off), the reversers AND the spoilers activate - no throttle response

 

That is not similar in any way whatsoever! You evidently have incorrect or conflicting assignments!

 

Pete

[Florida]

Pete, I apologize profusely for repeating the question that you DID answer fully at the beginning of this thread. At 68, I'm beginning to forget things a bit more often than I'd like. In any case, I found the problem, in that rebuilding every A/C for the new INI file, I had to remember the previous instructions to the 'T', and I didn't go over the configuration with a fine-toothed comb. I DID remember to assign the throttles to FSX instead of FSUIPC, and I DID remember not to calibrate them in FSUIPC. What I completely overlooked was the single throttle assignment on page 1 of the Joystick calibration - it was still set. I had turned the cals off for the individual throttles, but not for the first page.

 

SO - "stupid mode" turned off, and I'm a happy camper again. I will print out this entire thread and keep it posted in a prominent place in my den. And I hope that you had a great vacation for the past few days. I know it must be nice getting away from people with dumb questions. I work in a big-box retail store, so I know the feeling. I should know better.

 

Cheers!

[Pete Dowson]

Pete, I apologize profusely for repeating the question that you DID answer fully at the beginning of this thread. At 68, I'm beginning to forget things a bit more often than I'd like

 

Tell me about it -- wait till you get to my age! ;-)

 

Glad you got it sorted.

 

Pete

[Florida]

Me again, Pete! Maybe you can assign me a special "doofus" label and so be channeled into the "Special Needs Simmer" forum.

 

Anyway, I'm not posting to ask you to fix something else for me, but to ask for a possible explanation on why something works. I was back to the PMDG 777, after spending an eternity on the 737, and setting everything up again. I actually had this thread up on screen #2 for reference as I set up the control axes. And, sure enough, I could not get the throttles working. "Okay, numbnuts, you've done this before...why ain't it working now?" On Axis Assignment, both throttles set up "Send to FS as a normal axis" and checked as "Axis Throttle 1 (and 2) Set".  On the Calibration page, Throttle 1 and 2 set as "Axis not processed" (no FSUIPC cal), "Exclude THROTTLEn_SET" box NOT checked. And even page 1 single throttle not processed (a mistake I made on the 737).

 

And the throttles are NOT WORKING! Arghh!  I went to your FSUIPC docs, and looked through everything, and couldn't find anything I may have missed. Finally, I went back and for grins I clicked the "Sync Pos" button on the Separate Throttle (page 3), and my throttles, individually, came to life. Now, I read the section in the manual covering the Sync Pos function, and there doesn't seem to be any explanation for my solution. The 777 has 2 engines, and I have 2 throttles. So why did that work?

 

I'm a happy guy again, but I seem to have stumbled upon the solution instead of researching and understanding it. So maybe you could, in some of the little spare time you have, try to explain to me "what happened?" No rush, just curiosity. BTW, I also have the newest version, if that means anything.

[Pete Dowson]

On the Calibration page, Throttle 1 and 2 set as "Axis not processed" (no FSUIPC cal), "Exclude THROTTLEn_SET" box NOT checked.

....

Finally, I went back and for grins I clicked the "Sync Pos" button on the Separate Throttle (page 3), and my throttles, individually, came to life.

 

Something else changed, then, most likely to do with the USB power to the device. The "Exclude THROTTLEn SET" and "Sync Pos" options are totally ignored when the axes aren't processed.

 

When the axes aren't processed they are not even intercepted by FSUIPC, they just get sent directly to FS, exactly as when assigned in FS. The complete calibration section doesn't apply to axes which aren't processed because they aren't even seen!

 

Pete

[Florida]

So you're as surprised as I was. Well, at least it wasn't my feeble brain playing tricks on me again.  Reading your docs, it DID seem that choosing "Send Directly to FS" by-passed the calibration page. Although I do have a powered USB hub (kinda hard not to when you have 9 USB devices), my X-55 controllers (both joystick and throttles) are plugged directly into the computers ports. And so I now have to worry about a possible power supply problem?  Is there any other possible fix, like deleting (once again) my FSUIPC.ini file? As I said, I recently updated FSUIPC to the current version, so I was suspecting that might have something to do with it.

 

Or maybe disconnecting and re-connecting the controllers? Sheez! It's always something, ain't it?

[Pete Dowson]

So you're as surprised as I was. Well, at least it wasn't my feeble brain playing tricks on me again.  Reading your docs, it DID seem that choosing "Send Directly to FS" by-passed the calibration page. Although I do have a powered USB hub (kinda hard not to when you have 9 USB devices), my X-55 controllers (both joystick and throttles) are plugged directly into the computers ports. And so I now have to worry about a possible power supply problem?  Is there any other possible fix, like deleting (once again) my FSUIPC.ini file? As I said, I recently updated FSUIPC to the current version, so I was suspecting that might have something to do with it.

 

Or maybe disconnecting and re-connecting the controllers? Sheez! It's always something, ain't it?

 

If you are not calibrating in FSUIPC, merely assigning, then it is only doing exactly the same as FS would do. So deleting INI files or changing versions accomplishes nothing, it changes nothing.

 

All of the problems reported with Saitek devices concern complete loss of input from them. It must be something to do with power, but that is usually easily fixable in Windows 7. It seems to be Windows 8 and 8.1 users with all the problems. Are you on Win8? Thought about taking the free upgrade to Win10? That might do it.

 

Pete

[Florida]

I'm running Win 7, and right now I have no plans to upgrade to Win 10. Even when the release version comes out, I'll wait a bit. Half the forum threads on AvSim think Win 10 is the answer, and half think it's still full of bugs and problems.

You say that the power issue is easy to fix in Win 7?  I'm all ears. Is there something you can tell me about this Saitek and Win 7?  Right now, I'm going back into FSX SE and looking very closely at the control settings. I know that the Saitek controllers have been "unchecked" and there are seemingly no assignments, especially with axis items. But I have been known to miss things, so  I will once again pick apart FSX with a fine-toothed comb to see if I forgot something. I will also try to reverse the clicks I made in FSUIPC calibration and see if I can re-introduce the problem. It seems so incongruous to be able to fix something by doing something not even connected to the problem.

 

In any event, thanks for the input. One of these days I'll finally get to do some quality flight time using all of the stuff on my computer.

[Pete Dowson]

I'm running Win 7, and right now I have no plans to upgrade to Win 10.

 

If you are using Win7 and you get control disconnections even with Windows USB power management disabled, then I can only think it is faulty hardware somewhere -- device, cable or USB chips. Evidently, whatever it is, it is intermittent.

 

Pete