FSUIPC4 Throttle/Reverse Calibration:A2A's B377

[butlerbd]

I am relatively new to FSX and have assigned axis within FSX and calibrated using FSUIPC.  My controller is a Saitek X-55 Rhino with a separate stick and throttle quadrant with two levers.  This method of setting controls has worked well until I acquired the Boeing 377 aircraft from A2A (a wonderful simulation of a great old aircraft).    For the B377 I followed the "The Easy Step-by-Step way to Calibrate Your Controls" beginning on page 47 of the FSUIPC4 Manual.  First I set up axis in FSX and checked that each lever worked correctly.  Then I followed section 5, 6 last paragraph setting the dead zone, and 7. I checked the "filter" for each throttle and checked the option that allows twin throttles to control left and right engines in 4 engine aircraft.   

 

In the Aircraft the throttle levers operate correctly from the reverse detent forward.  Throttle levers vibrate when moving into détente and will not move into reverse or move back to full reverse.  Using the F2 button the levers go into reverse move back to full reverse.  Power functions correctly increasing as levers move back.   Holding the F3 button moves levers forward and out of reverse.  Once levers are moved beyond détente with the F3 button the levers function correctly.  There are problems using the throttles to control the reverse function.  I have questions: If F2 and F3 buttons move levers into and out of reverse why won't throttle levers work?   As the throttles won't move over détente could there be problem in creating the dead zone?  Should one calibrate each throttle separately or together setting reverse, idle, and max button on both throttles together?   I don't know how A2A or FSUIPC programing implements the throttle/reverse function but it is interesting that the buttons function correctly?   Should I try calibrating with the one throttle section of FSUIPC?   Would using FSUIPC to fully control axis functions in an FSX profile for the B377 be more likely to function correctly?

 

I would like to have throttles setup that smoothly move through the range and move into and out off reverse.  Any help/thoughts you could provide me would be appreciated.

 

William

[Pete Dowson]

I am relatively new to FSX and have assigned axis within FSX and calibrated using FSUIPC.  My controller is a Saitek X-55 Rhino with a separate stick and throttle quadrant with two levers. 

 

Do these Saitek levers actually have a measurable range (i.e. changing input numbers, as seen as the "IN" value in the calibration) before the idle detente? Because the Saitek throttle quadrants I've sen only have a programmable button there, no axis range you can use for reverse.

 

You say:

 

This method of setting controls has worked well until I acquired the Boeing 377 aircraft from A2A (a wonderful simulation of a great old aircraft).  

 

but maybe this add-on implements its throttle control in a non-standard way. Certainly many sophisticated add-on aircraft do (Aerosoft Airbus and PMDG 737NGX to name two). The reverse thrust range is actually not available on any regular FS assignable controls at all -- they only operate from idle to full thrust. FSUIPC achieves the reverse range by using old original FS98 axis controls which, luckily, are still actually implemented. But some add-ons do not recognise these properly.

 

So, test your throttle reserse out on default aircraft first. Once you have it working fine there, f it is still not right on your A2A add-on then you would need to program reverse on F2 (actually "throttle decrease" control -- which has separate engine variants) instead.

 

As the throttles won't move over détente could there be problem in creating the dead zone?

 

Aha! That seems to confirm what I thought and mentioned above, that Saitek throttles don't provide any reverse zone. Does your have buttons pressed when pulled back? If so program them in Buttons & Switches to use "throttle1 decr" and "throttle2 decr" when pressed, with repeat enabled, then "throttle1 cut" and "throttle2 cut" when released. Then you just keep pulling back for full reverse.

 

Alternatively, if the throttles also simply do not work reverse in default aircraft either, treat yourself to some throttle quadrant which does work, OR calibrate idle further up, away from the detente, and just make a larger idle zone so you can find it without the detente.

 

Pete

[Gypsy Baron]

The A2A B377 has some very specific requirements for getting into and out of the reverse thrust regime.

 

For illustration, from the keyboard one must enter 'F1" to set idle thrust. The a series of "F2"keypresses

will move the throttles into the reverse range. (Approx. 14 key presses or continuously hold F2 until full revers)

 

To exit reverse thrust one must apply a series of "F3" key presses until the throttles move up and out of the

reverse range. At that time normal throttle operation can be resumed.

 

I created 2 small Lua scripts to automate these function on my Saitek dual throttle quads. When I pull the throttles back

into the DETENT position, the first script executes the "F1" followed by 14 "F2"s.

 

To exit, I simply move my throttle out of the DETENT and in doing so the 2nd script execures, sending 15 "F3" key strokes.

 

I use just one of the throttle detent switches to execute the 1st script when the switch is activated and the 2nd script is executed

when the switch is deactivated.

 

Here are the 2 scripts:

 

B377_REV.lua

i = 0
   ipc.keypress(112)
   ipc.sleep(250)
while i < 14 do
   ipc.keypress(113)
    ipc.keypress(113)
	ipc.keypress(113)
   ipc.sleep(50)
   i = i + 1
end

and B377_XIT_REV.lua

i = 0
while i < 15 do
   ipc.keypress(114)
      ipc.sleep(50)
	ipc.keypress(114)
   ipc.sleep(50)
   i = i + 1
end

I hope this helps.

 

 Paul

[butlerbd]

You are correct the Saitek throttle quadrant has no mechanical detent or area after which the in + out - is reversed.  There is no button that I can find that implements a reverse function.   The throttles move smoothly from full increase to full decrease.  When I calibrated I created dead zone slightly behind the middle of the throttle.  I thought the FPUIPC calibration "created a reverse zone" or area where A2A implemented the reverse zone.   The throttle levers clearly move up and back in the B377.  This can be done with my Saitek levers but they vibrate (as if receiving unrecognized input) at the detent point in the B377 and will move back no further.  As you say reverse is implemented by program signal (I did not know that) and the x55-Rhino apparently does not have this capability.   I tested my throttles on a twin beach without reverse I did not think to test it on aircraft with reverse.  I will do that.

 

Thanks for your help.  I learned a lot.  I will try your suggestions.

 

Paul

 

Your suggestions are very helpful too.  I verifies what Pete said about implementing the reverse zone with buttons.   I am not familiar with scripts or "lua".  It looks like I may have to learn to get the B377 to function realistically with my hardware.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

I will get back if I have more questions

 

William

[Gypsy Baron]

Lacking detent switches/buttons on your throttles, you can implement the launch of the Lua scripts using the

FSUIPC4 Axis Assignment Tab and then use the feature on the right side of that screen to 'send button controls'.

 

You would define a 'range' near the beginning of the throttle travel for a short distance and when that range is 'entered going down'

you would specify the Lua script to enter reverse thrust.

 

You would also define a  2nd 'range' covering the same area but for this range you would specify the Exit Recerse Thrust Script to be executed when that range is 'entered going up'.

 

This method would create a 'virtual detent'  that would function just like a switch or button.

 

For the Lua scripts, they are just placed in the FSX 'Modules' folder. They can be copied and pasted into text files and then

saved with the .lua extension. When FSUIPC4 loads, it sees these Lua scripts and makes them available for assignment

in the buttons & switches menu and the Axis assignment menu.

 

Although this may sound complicated, it is quite simple.

 

   Paul

[Pete Dowson]

You are correct the Saitek throttle quadrant has no mechanical detent or area after which the in + out - is reversed.  There is no button that I can find that implements a reverse function. 

 

I know that the regular Saitek throttle quadrants have a button which presses when you pul the lever right back. But evidently I don't know about the device you are using. You could just go to the FSUIPC "Buttons & Switches" tab and try.

 

But, of course, that won't automatically create a reverse function. You'd need to assign appropriate controls, as I said.

 

The throttles move smoothly from full increase to full decrease.  When I calibrated I created dead zone slightly behind the middle of the throttle.  I thought the FPUIPC calibration "created a reverse zone" or area where A2A implemented the reverse zone.

 

 

 

Certainly, if the aircraft you are using it with had normal FS reverse support, you could do exactly that, even though the Saitek throttles are not really designed to work that way. But it looks like, from what Paul says, your B377 is different (as I suggested it might be).

 

I'll have to leave you in Paul's capable hands.

 

I'm away for the weekend. Back Monday.

 

Pete

[butlerbd]

Pete and Paul,

 

I believe implementation of reverse in B377 is different as Paul says.  I set axis and calibrated in FSX for left and right throttles.  In Beachcraft  350 and the B377 the throttles moved from idle to full power but would not move either aircraft into or out of reverse.  In B377 only left two throttles moved.  In each aircraft the F2 button moved throttles into reverse and the F3 button moved the throttles out of reverse.  In the B377 the buttons moved all four throttles.  Movement of throttles into reverse and out of reverse was less stable in the B377.  

 

I then calibrated the axis using FSUIPC.  I calibrated for reverse, idle, and maximum with small dead space at idle.  In the Beachcraft 350 the throttles moved the controls from idle to full power and also into and out of reverse.  Controls functioned as in real aircraft.  The F2 and F3 buttons functioned as before.   In the B377 the throttles moved from idle to full power but not into or out of reverse as before.  In the B377 the FSUIPC calibration did not result in controls functioning as in the real aircraft.  The F2 and F3 buttons moved the controls (all four) into and out of reverse.  Movement of controls still was not smooth but jittery.

 

Because of the jittery controls when trying to move throttles into reverse in the B377 I did one other thing.  I calibrated the controls with FSUIPC checking the "no reverse zone".  I thought this might separate any interaction between throttle function and reverse function.  In the B377 the throttles went smoothly from full power to idle but not into reverse.  The F2 and F3 buttons functioned as before and movement into and out of reverse was smooth.  The Beachcraft 350 controls were irratic under this calibration.  

 

The throttle reverse behavior of the B377 in the different calibration schemes tends verify as Paul said: the function is implemented differently in this aircraft.  Also there has been much discussion on other forums including A2A's about B377 throttle/reverse function without much resolution.  Maybe it has something to do with the four engines controlled by one throttle quadrant with only two levers.  It does take FSUIPC to enable each lever to control two engines and the F2 and F3 buttons control all four engines.  There are so many variables that the realism of the aircraft simulations in our hobby are a wonder and wonderful.  

 

 For the short term I plan create a "no reverse profile" for the B377 and use to F2 and F3 buttons after landing to slow the aircraft.  It is a reasonable compromise.  I will work on implementing Pauls "lua script" suggestions to make the B377 throttles function more like the real aircraft.

 

Thanks for all the help

 

Willaim