Trying to calibrate/assign my Throttle quadrant

[nemokin]

Pete,

First of all, thank you for this wonderful tool you have provided. I have never flight simed without FSUIPC since FS2004.

Before I go to my problem, a little background info as to my currect setup.
I recently installed P3Dv3.2, and only three Aersoft add-on airports (along with ORBX Global, LC and Vector).
Only add-on aircraft I have installed is PMDG NGX.
I have three hardware devices,  GoFlight YOKE by GoFlight Technology Inc.
737-type Throttle quadrant Rev-Simproducts 8 axes by Revolution Simproducts and  MFG Crosswind V2 rudder pedals.
All three are USB devices and conntected and recognized by P3D.
Flying the default B58 has seen no problems, assigning some functions such as "autopilot disconnect" or "elevator trim up/down"
to my GoFlight YOKE via button assignment within P3D options/controls menu.
My throttle too work without any problem, properly throttling from idle to max on both throttles 1 and 2.

Here is my challenge.
In an attempt to assign and calibrate, for an example, Reversers 1 and 2 (phycially available on TQ similar to real 737), I go into FSUIPC.
Once finished assigning and calibrating various TQ functions in FSUIPC using PMDG NGX and press "OK", my PC automatically shuts down
and forces a restart of PC itself. This occurs everytime I press "OK". Restarting P3D and NGX, I notice that my assignment/calibration that I made
prior to the shut down has not been reflected. Since every "OK" leads to a forced shutdown, I am unable to assign/calibrate.
Any hints as to what I need to do/correct will be appreciated. Of note, I am using Version 4.953. (Win7-64)
I am only trying to assign/calibrate the TQ via FSUIPC and not the Yoke and Rudder; they are assigned within the P3D Option/Control
and work perfectly in both default planes and NGX.

I don't know if this has anything to do with this forced shutdown, but I still have my TQ device "enabled" within P3D.
Do you think simply "disable" the TQ within P3D will solve this forced shutdown issue? (I could might as well try it
but trying to think ahead and wanted to get your POV).

Please know, Pete, I am not complaining about FSUIPC itself; I am simply trying to figure out how this can be solved.
 

[Pete Dowson]

52 minutes ago, nemokin said:

In an attempt to assign and calibrate, for an example, Reversers 1 and 2 (phycially available on TQ similar to real 737), I go into FSUIPC.
Once finished assigning and calibrating various TQ functions in FSUIPC using PMDG NGX and press "OK", my PC automatically shuts down and forces a restart of PC itself. This occurs everytime I press "OK". Restarting P3D and NGX, I notice that my assignment/calibration that I made prior to the shut down has not been reflected. 

Well, since when you press "OK" all that happens is that FSUIPC tries to save your settings to the FSUIPC4.INI settings file, and it seems that fails, I'm not at all surprised the last settings aren't remembered!

There's really nothing anything in FSUIPC can do, nor really any other add-on can do, which will cause a PC shutdown. In fact I've NEVER even heard of any spontaneous PC shutdown which was not caused by things like drivers -- whether video, USB, sound, etc. Really they are the only parts which are at a sufficiently low level to cause a shutdown.

But then you'd almost always get some sort of report from Windows, like a blue screen., or maybe something like a disk scan on the re-booting -- often both.

BTW I also think you ought to know that I don't think the PMDG NGX supports reversers using axes. You'll probably only be able to assign "THROTTLE DECR" type controls to get reverse. At least, this is what I have learned from other NGX users.

Pete

 

[nemokin]

Pete,

Thank you for your reply.

I have checked the Windows Event Viewer after the forced reboot but there really isn't any error entry other than a forced reboot.

I also have a "Bluescreen checker" type of application and that too registeres no error.

Correct me if I am interpreting your comment wrong, but is it your recommendation that I try to update my nVidia drivers and

see if that will solve the issue? (I am not questioning your advice, I am simply not PC literate enough to know that a graphic driver

may affect how the FSUIPC data registers/saves)

 

Alternatively, what do you think about if I try to assign/calibrate using default B58 instead of NGX and apply that to not any

aircraft specific, thus allowing to be used for all aircrafts? If successful, then it probably is NGX issue but if not successful then

it's not aircraft specific. If/when this fails, I will try to update the graphic drivers. I just thought that trying this first is much easier than

updating the graphics drivers (or even possibly reverting back to the older version if the new driver performs poorly).

 

Thanks again

[Pete Dowson]

2 hours ago, nemokin said:

I have checked the Windows Event Viewer after the forced reboot but there really isn't any error entry other than a forced reboot

Strange. I've never had such a thing happen. There's always a reason given -- unless the user or another program has instructed Windows to restart. There's no such code in FSUIPC.

2 hours ago, nemokin said:

Correct me if I am interpreting your comment wrong, but is it your recommendation that I try to update my nVidia drivers and see if that will solve the issue? (I am not questioning your advice, I am simply not PC literate enough to know that a graphic driver

No, I am saying no such thing. Except for the remote possibility that something has actually instructed Windows to restart, I was saying that only software with driver-level privileges can cause a crash which make Windows restart.

2 hours ago, nemokin said:

I am simply not PC literate enough to know that a graphic driver may affect how the FSUIPC data registers/saves)

Nor I, because it cannot, and it cannot be anything to do with FSUIPC. However, everything in the FSUIPC Settings dialogue is handled by standard Windows dialogue libraries, and of course the changes on screen are handled by a video driver.

I think you need to go through a process of elimination. Start by doing things without the PMDG aircraft running. Don't have anything else running apart from FS + FSUIPC. See if that still does it. If not, add things back bit by bit.

2 hours ago, nemokin said:

Alternatively, what do you think about if I try to assign/calibrate using default B58 instead of NGX and apply that to not any aircraft specific, thus allowing to be used for all aircrafts? If successful, then it probably is NGX issue but if not successful then it's not aircraft specific.

Yes, exactly. I'm surprised you've not set up any generic controls already, really. You should make profile specific settings as and when you find you need them, and you can then always base them on the settings you already have.

Note that some bits of some of this add-ons are probably still running even when you are not using their aircraft. I know this happens with the PMDG stuff. So we might need to take further steps.  But try the easy way first.

Pete

 

[Thomas Richter]

Hi,

in case you say you use a RevSim throttle, make sure you disable its driver. Depending on which hardware version, RevSim driver or Opencockpits software.

Thomas

[nemokin]

Pete,

Thank you for clarification. I will attempt a general setting first.

 

Thomas,

Appreciate your advice. I own a non-motorized TQ. How would I go about disabling the drivers you mention?

Apologies for an elementary level question..

 

[Thomas Richter]

Hi,

if I remember correct only the Reverser and different Buttons have to be defined/ calibrated via FSUIPC. The both throttle lever were connected to a Opencockpit card, SIOC driven (Opencockpits software driver), or Revolution Simproducts driver (Throttle Quadrant Driver).

How are the Throttel lever calibrated, should be the above way (the only one I know of) but maybe there is a different way I don't know? As You described in your first post you defined/ calibrated only the Reverser and various functions that's why I guess there is a driver that handles the other functions already.

Quote

Appreciate your advice. I own a non-motorized TQ. How would I go about disabling the drivers you mention?

Just check if something like described, SIOC or Throttle Quadrant Driver, is running and close the program before trying to go into FSUIPC.

Thomas

[nemokin]

Thomas,

I shall try to disable the drivers, thank you. 

A dumb question maybe but if I disable the drivers wouldn't that make my PC not recognize the TQ as active device?

Will this still allow FSUIPC to recognize and assign/calibrate? ( I suppose P3D and its option/device selection within P3D

will not recognize the TQ.) I just never done something like this before so it's a whole new experience for me.

[Thomas Richter]

Hi,

the RevSim TQ has normally two USB connections. One connects the special board operates by one of the drivers and the other is seen as a joystick card. The one seen as a joystick card will still be recognized by Windows as a joystick card as so by FSUIPC. The card that is seen as a joystick card is the one that connects to the REV lever and other buttons.

Thomas

[nemokin]

Hmm... I thought I only had 1 USB connection but I have not looked in the back of my PC for years now so I am not sure.

I shall take a look and try both Peter and your advice tonight.

Thank you and I shall provide an update of the result.

[Thomas Richter]

Hi,

it's the TQ that normally has two USB connections.

Still you didn't say if there is one of those drivers running at all? Also where are the throttle lever defined, speed brake and flaps lever?

[nemokin]

Thomas,

I live in Asia so I am smack in the middle of the work day, away from my PC. I will be home in about 4 hours

after which I shall begin the assignment/calibration tasks as you two commented.

In the past, I have used FSUIPC to assign/calibrate my RevSim TQ for both throttles, reverses, spoilers and flaps and they were working fine

in FSX and in P3D v2.5. I also had TOGA, mixture engage, parking brake and A/T arm/disconnect buttons as well.

 

I remember Revolution TQ recognized in the device manager of Windows but never attempted to

see if the drivers are the ones you commented. I hope I can figure out a way to search for these drivers somehow.

[nemokin]

Pete and Thomas

Here is the latest. Firstly, I was able to assign/calibrate with FSUIPC without the sim crashing.

Below is what I did and did not do.
1. Windows file/program search did not find any Revolution Simproducts drivers, Opencockpit drivers, or SIOC, so I passed on disabling these drivers.
2. Launched P3D at default airport and default B58.
3. Deleted throttle axis assignment for the TQ using Option/Control menu within the sim. These were the only axis assigned by the sim.
4. Checked and verified that my throttles were not moving despite moving my TQ.
5. Opened FSUIPC and assigned and calibrated throttle 1 and 2, reversers 1 and 2 axis. Also assigned TOGA, A/T disconnect and mixture 1 and 2 buttons.
     Not ticking the "Profile specific" tick box.
6. Once done, clicked "OK" in FSUIPC. No crash, back to B58 cockpit.
7. Flew for 30 minutes with B58. Mixture handles (red ones) moved OK, Throttles moved OK.
   (Although throttles seems to move less smooth/gradual in sim - lags physical TQ movement than before.)

I did not have the time to check with NGX last night, so I have not tested the reversers, TOGA, A/T functions yet. Hopefully I will have time later tonight.
Of note, I have not assigned the flaps and spoiler axis to my TQ yet. (I don't intend to assign spoiler axis, may assign flaps specifically for NGX)

Will update further on how NGX works.

[Pete Dowson]

4 hours ago, nemokin said:

Deleted throttle axis assignment for the TQ using Option/Control menu within the sim. These were the only axis assigned by the sim.

You never need to delete assignments in the Sim. You should, however, DISABLE CONTROLLERS in the Sim. That is much more important!

4 hours ago, nemokin said:

(Although throttles seems to move less smooth/gradual in sim - lags physical TQ movement than before

What controls did you assign to, exactly (the names in the drop-down list), and in the calibration did you set null zones or response slopes or something?

Don't use the Filter option unless you have really terribly jerky controls, that will introduce a lag. But otherwise there should be no lag at all. In fact if you assign "Direct to FSUIPC Calibration" it bypasses a lot of stuff in the Sim and acts very efficiently indeed. However, you cannot use that method with some add-on aircraft, especially PMDG ones (but also those don't like you even calibrating in FSUIPC, because they take the control inputs at the same level as FSUIPC)..

Pete

 

[nemokin]

5 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

You never need to delete assignments in the Sim. You should, however, DISABLE CONTROLLERS in the Sim. That is much more important!

I did try this first but my P3D did not allow device specific controller enable/disable. When I chose TQ in the controller type scroll and unticked "enable controllers"
to disable it, all others (Yoke and rudder) too become disabled together.

 

6 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

What controls did you assign to, exactly (the names in the drop-down list), and in the calibration did you set null zones or response slopes or something?

Don't use the Filter option unless you have really terribly jerky controls, that will introduce a lag. But otherwise there should be no lag at all. In fact if you assign "Direct to FSUIPC Calibration" it bypasses a lot of stuff in the Sim and acts very efficiently indeed. However, you cannot use that method with some add-on aircraft, especially PMDG ones (but also those don't like you even calibrating in FSUIPC, because they take the control inputs at the same level as FSUIPC)..

To report on my NGX.
What I had assigned/calibrated last night using default B58 worked with NGX (Throttles, Reversers, TOGA and A/T Disconnect).
(I flew PMDG NGX tonight and throttles worked fine without any lags. Maybe it was simply my misperception with default B58 yesterday.)

I used "Throttle 1" and "Throttle" from the drop-down list, checked Direct to FSUIPC Calibration. No Filer option, no null zones nor response slopes (since I
am not familiar/comfortable with these yet).

Engine Start Levers did not work, however. They both worked last night in B58's red mixture handles but not with NGX today.
Unlike B58, when I move the TQ's engine start levers nothing happens in NGX (I had to move them using my mouse in sim). 
My TQ's engine start levers are recognized as buttons. Using "Buttons+Switches" tab in FSUIPC,
I ticked "select FS control" then chose "Mixture Lean" and "Mixture Rich" using B58.
Parameter box remains blank, also Control repeat while held remain unchecked.
Maybe I need to select a different control selection from the drop-down list, I do not know.

Of note, I have not touched FSUIPC assign/calibration with NGX as active aircraft so don't know if PC shutdown will
occur if I were to open and change setting with NGX. I may try this tomorrow night to see if shutdown will reoccur.

[Pete Dowson]

31 minutes ago, nemokin said:

I did try this first but my P3D did not allow device specific controller enable/disable. When I chose TQ in the controller type scroll and unticked "enable controllers" to disable it, all others (Yoke and rudder) too become disabled together.

Yes, exactly. And that's exactly what you want to happen if you are assigning in FSUIPC. It should be all one or all the other.

33 minutes ago, nemokin said:

I used "Throttle 1" and "Throttle" from the drop-down list, checked Direct to FSUIPC Calibration.

I assume you mean Throttle 1 and Throttle 2!

And it still worked okay in a PMDG aircraft? Everyone else says that doesn't work in the NGX -- it gets its Throttle inputs direct only from the AXIS THROTTLEn SET controls.  The lower priority input from FSUIPC causes conflict -- or at least that's what others tell me. I don't use any PMDG aircraft.

Quote

Maybe I need to select a different control selection from the drop-down list, I do not know.

Most of the stuff in PMDG aircraft needs different methods altogether. They have actually implemented a complete set of numbered controls, which are assigned in FSUIPC via the <custom control> selection. I think the list is at the end of the ".h" file in their SDK folder. alternatively there are probably keystrokes you can assign, but i don't know.

Pete

 

 

[nemokin]

I flew NGX tonight and used FSUIPC to assign engine cutoff/idle buttons and actions (keyboard shortcut specifically for NGX)
without P3D shutting down when pressing "OK". Button assignment looks to be successful, visually checking for the engine levers
moving in sim, in sync with TQ's physical movement.

For now, things appear to be resolved.
As a conclusion, it may have been a simple conflict of axis assignment being made in both FSUIPC and in P3D, since
I had not deleted the axis assignment within P3D. A very elementary error (or skip of process) on my part.

Thank you, Pete and Thomas, for sticking with me to solve this.

[Pete Dowson]

1 minute ago, nemokin said:

As a conclusion, it may have been a simple conflict of axis assignment being made in both FSUIPC and in P3D, since
I had not deleted the axis assignment within P3D. A very elementary error (or skip of process) on my part.

No, that couldn't possible cause such a problem. It would simply result in two probably different axis values being received by P3D and show up as jitter or erratic movement. Only something of driver status could had had the effect you experienced, and I expect the actions Thomas recommended did the trick.

Pete