Problem report: left/right brake calibration disabled when DirectAxesToCalibs=Yes

[Alexey]

Hi!

I need DirectAxesToCalibs=Yes option to be able controlling A2A airplanes with my FFB Yoke (it uses FSUIPC offsets to control yoke position and this approach doesn't work with A2A without DirectAxesToCalibs).

I found that when this option is enabled, left/right brake calibration doesn't work. When I press "Set" for brakes in Calibration tab, simply nothing happens. Other axes work fine.

Version: FSUIPC 5.15

Environment: P3D 4.4 (same behaviour with P3D 4.3 and previous FSUIPC version), Win10

Repro steps:

• (optional) reset fpuipc.ini (delete, restart p3d, close p3d)
• set DirectAxesToCalibs=Yes in fsuipc.ini
• start P3D
• go to Axis Calibration -> Left (or Right) Brake
• press Set

Expected: usual calibration controls will be shown, button text changes to "Reset"

Actual: nothing is changed, still only "Set" button is visible in the Brake groupbox

Notes:

• obviously with DirectAxesToCalibs=No (default value) calibration is working
• other axes still calibrated fine
• if calibrate the axis with DirectAxesToCalibs=No, save to .ini file and then start P3D with DirectAxesToCalibs=Yes, calibration values deleted from .ini file (only for brakes!)
• in my case seems the behaviour doesn't depend on aircraft (though I'm testing mostly with A2A Comanche)
• same result whether axis is assigned or not.

 

Similar report: https://forum.simflight.com/topic/78135-ch-pedals-calibrate-brake-axis/

 

[Pete Dowson]

36 minutes ago, Alexey said:

I found that when this option is enabled, left/right brake calibration doesn't work. When I press "Set" for brakes in Calibration tab, simply nothing happens. Other axes work fine.

But all axes are treated the same in calibration.

36 minutes ago, Alexey said:

if calibrate the axis with DirectAxesToCalibs=No, save to .ini file and then start P3D with DirectAxesToCalibs=Yes, calibration values deleted from .ini file (only for brakes!)

That does seem very strange. I'll see what happens here, but that might not be today.

36 minutes ago, Alexey said:

Similar report: https://forum.simflight.com/topic/78135-ch-pedals-calibrate-brake-axis/

Not really. No mention of "directAxesToCalibs", and he found and fixed the problem -- something odd in his INI file (which unfortunately he didn't elucidate upon).

Maybe I will need to see your INI, which didn't appear to be attached to your message. And, since the facility you are using (DirectAxesToCalibs) is intercepting FSUIPC Offset writes in order to calibrate them, could you please list what offsets are used for each control on your FFB yoke if you know them?

Are the brakes and otheraxes (throttles?) controlled by normal joystick inputs? If so, then this seems an odd thing to say:

Quote

same result whether axis is assigned or not.

because if a "normal" axis isn't assigned, obviously it won't be able to reach calibration.

So, lots more information yet, particularly on devices and assignments.

Pete

 

[Alexey]

Hi Pete! 

Quote

Maybe I will need to see your INI, which didn't appear to be attached to your message.

I can reproduce the issue with default .ini with a single changed line (i.e. DirectAxesToCalibs) . Pls find that .ini attached and logs also.  

 

Quote

And, since the facility you are using (DirectAxesToCalibs) is intercepting FSUIPC Offset writes in order to calibrate them, could you please list what offsets are used for each control on your FFB yoke if you know them?

Yes, here they are:

0x0BB2 - elevator

0x0BB6 - aileron

However, to reproduce the problem, I don't need to start the app that uses those offsets (normally it starts on another PC via WideFS).

Quote

Are the brakes and otheraxes (throttles?) controlled by normal joystick inputs? If so, then this seems an odd thing to say:

Yes, I have a rudder/brakes and throttles. This is the reason I want to calibrate brakes axes (rudder is calibrated perfectly).

But I  have this issue reproducible without any joystick devices connected (tried).

 

Quote

because if a "normal" axis isn't assigned, obviously it won't be able to reach calibration.

I mean that I can enable calibration for any group box in "Calibration" tab, except for brakes.

And this situation does not depend on particular axis assignments. E.g. I can assign right brake to my joystick axis, or I can skip this assignment - still "Set" button in Calibration->Brakes doesn't change anything.

FSUIPC5.ini

FSUIPC5.log

Edited December 8, 2018 by Alexey

[Alexey]

Just to be 100% clear, here is the screenshot from what I'm getting:

Left part (prop, mixture) is a an example of what happening when I press "Set" button there.

Right part is what happens when I press "Set" on Left/Right brakes. I.e. nothing is happening (looks like it immediately returning to the original state).

If I change DirectAxesToCalibs to No, brakes start working just as all other axes.

Edited December 8, 2018 by Alexey
typo

[Pete Dowson]

23 minutes ago, Alexey said:

I can reproduce the issue with default .ini with a single changed line (i.e. DirectAxesToCalibs) 

I've tested your problem here. I don't have your FFB yoke, so I've only tested with the DirectAxesToCalibs=Yes parameter. And I can now confirm this problem. I will have to run it in debug mode to find out why.

Sorry, I probably won't have time to do this till Tuesday now (busy tomorrow and away on Monday).

Pete

 

 

[Alexey]

18 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

I've tested your problem here. I don't have your FFB yoke, so I've only tested with the DirectAxesToCalibs=Yes parameter. And I can now confirm this problem. I will have to run it in debug mode to find out why.

Sorry, I probably won't have time to do this till Tuesday now (busy tomorrow and away on Monday).

Ok, thanks!

[Pete Dowson]

I found time enough to look at the code (not to debug).

It appears that in DirectAxesToCalibs=Yes mode the calibration is specifically prevented -- in the case of the brakes only!

Now this dates back to the mists of time so I don't really remember why, but my guess is that a calibrated redult cannot override brake offsets being used. The code does not differentiate between data from FSUIPC offsets and that from axis assignments. I think the offset method was assumed to apply to all axis type operations not just the main two or three. That was probably the case for such app;ications around at the time.

I think all I can do is to try to sort out a method to differentiate between how the axes arrive. For that it isn't merely a matter of checking assignments, but also NOT interfering with offsets being used in the sim if the corresponding axis is being assigned from a real device.

It isn't quite as bad as it seems because this is only for brakes, but then should i prevent brake offsets being written to by applicatinos if the brakes are subject to axis assignment? It is not an easy question, either to resolve or implement.

Pete

 

 

[Alexey]

Thanks for an explanation!

But why are brakes axes so different? From here it looks like same questions are valid for other axes, including elevator and aileron. How that axis vs offset conflict is solved for them?  I'd expect same behaviour for brakes, no matter which one.

BTW, there is  x310A offset to disconnect joystick from main controls, maybe something like this for brakes would resolve the issue?

Personally I'd agree with any simplest workaround allowing me to calibrate that axis

 

[Pete Dowson]

2 hours ago, Alexey said:

But why are brakes axes so different? From here it looks like same questions are valid for other axes, including elevator and aileron. How that axis vs offset conflict is solved for them?  I'd expect same behaviour for brakes, no matter which one.

Sorry, as I said, I just don't remember. This is very original code, dating back a long time. There may be such good reasons I cannot simply remove that code. That could introduce new problems for many others who don't have them now. After all, in all that time, you are the first to encounter this.

. I would need to work around it for your "mixed method" configuration.

2 hours ago, Alexey said:

BTW, there is  x310A offset to disconnect joystick from main controls, maybe something like this for brakes would resolve the issue?

No, you want the opposite. You want the joystick input to get though to calibration, not to stop it.doing even what it does now. I'd need to add more code to by-pass the part stopping calibration if it somehow knows that the original value came from an axis input. That should be easy enough IF you assign "direct to FSUIPC calibration". I don't think it can be done otherwsie, but I don't see that as a problem.

I'll sort out a solution, but it won't be before Tuesday. What do you think?

[LATER]
I have pored over the code, and at the time you want to "Set" calibration, there's no way I can detect where the input will come from. So I cannot make this automatic. The solution I think I will adopt is to make it a user choice. To allow the brakes to be calibrated you would need to set "DirectAxesToCalibs=All", or maybe less confusingly "DirectAxesToCalibs=BrakesOk". Can you think of a non-confusing parameter value? Or at least a sensible one?

Pete

 

[Pete Dowson]

On 12/8/2018 at 11:23 PM, Pete Dowson said:

To allow the brakes to be calibrated you would need to set "DirectAxesToCalibs=All",

This is implemented in a limited interim version, FSUIPC 5.150a. Please download it via:
FSUIPC5150a.zip.

This is just the replacement DLL to go into your Modules folder.

Pete

 

[Alexey]

Hi Pete!

Downloaded 5.150a and  tested - working as expected! Thanks!

P.S. "DirectAxesToCalibs=All" sounds good to me.

 

 

[Alexey]

Hi Pete!

Just noticed that brake axes calibration is not saved into .ini file.

* I set DirectAxesToCalibs=All

* open FSUIPC calibration tab, go to Left/Right brake

* press "Set", do some changes

* close the dialog

* then open again => no calibration for brakes axes (nothing in .ini files).

Can you pls check on your side?

[John Dowson]

Hi,

Pete's still away, but I took a look and could reproduce and it seemed to be an  easy enough fix, so please try the following:

FSUIPC5150b.zip

I'm not too familiar with this flag/functionality, so I'll get Pete to verify when he's back.

Cheers.

[Alexey]

On 1/4/2019 at 7:30 PM, John Dowson said:

Hi,

Pete's still away, but I took a look and could reproduce and it seemed to be an  easy enough fix, so please try the following:

FSUIPC5150b.zip

I'm not too familiar with this flag/functionality, so I'll get Pete to verify when he's back.

Cheers.

 

Hi John!

Working as expected now, thanks!