Question on throttle calibration for Aerosoft Airbus

[nantelp]

Hi,

I am trying to calibrate my Precision Flight Control 2 jet quadrant with the Aerosoft Airbus . The only way I have it to work is to configure PFCcom64 and then configure FSUIPC5 using "Send direct to FSUIPC calibration" but without  using the "Joystick Calibration”  options. If I do the calibration, the throttle doesn't work. I am using profile to configure my different aircraft. So I have included both the FSUIPC5.ini and the profile ini (Airbus.ini). My problem is that the throttle 1 is not coming all the way down to the 0 THR, but throttle 2 is ok. see attach picture.   

So I am wondering if there is a way to make both throttle equal, meaning the throttle 1 comes down as far as throttle 2 , too the 0 thrust?

p.s I also use this quadrant with the PMDG 777 and I do not have this problem. 

Thanks

Pierre

FSUIPC5.iniPFCcom64.iniAerosoft.ini

[Pete Dowson]

47 minutes ago, nantelp said:

The only way I have it to work is to configure PFCcom64 and then configure FSUIPC5 using "Send direct to FSUIPC calibration" but without  using the "Joystick Calibration”  options. If I do the calibration, the throttle doesn't work.

Yes, that is quite likely. with PMDG aircraft if you calibrateyou get conflicting values so the throttles jitter. With some other add-on aircraft they just don't process the controls at all at the level FSUIPC has to inject them after calibration.

Calibrate in PFCcom64.dll, the PFC entry in the Addons menu.

Pete

 

[nantelp]

Thanks you for the reply. I am currently using the PFCcom64.dll to calibrate. I use the automatic calibration option in the quadrant menu, but I cannot make the throttle 1 to go down to the 0 THR position. I am assuming the parameters from PFCcom64.dll are transfer to P3D. does this parameter in the ini file play a role in this "ThrottleSyncEngine2=No". Finaly do I read those parameters correctly:

J2-0=5,30,0,1,15,18,127,127
J2-2=5,5,0,17,58,70,116,127
J2-3=5,6,0,10,15,15,114,127
J2-5=5,32,0,20,56,72,108,127

so for example if I take the line J2-2=5,5,0,17,58,70,116,127

J2 is for the Quadrant type (two engine jet spoilers/throttles/reversers)

2 arm position on the physical throttle

=5,5 I do not know what those to are?

0,17,58,70,116,127 those are:  0= scale output, 17=minimum used, 58 & 70= I do not know, 116= Maximum used and 127=I do not know.

If I play with those values, would I be able to solve the problem?

Thanks again

Pierre 

 

[Pete Dowson]

2 hours ago, nantelp said:

so for example if I take the line J2-2=5,5,0,17,58,70,116,127

J2 is for the Quadrant type (two engine jet spoilers/throttles/reversers)

2 arm position on the physical throttle

=5,5 I do not know what those to are?

0,17,58,70,116,127 those are:  0= scale output, 17=minimum used, 58 & 70= I do not know, 116= Maximum used and 127=I do not know.

J2 is standard  2 jet engine throttle assignment. 

The -n part is the quadrant level 0 = left most, 5 = right-most. so normally 
0=speedbrake, 1= throttle 1, 2 = reverser 1, 3=reverser 2, 4 = throttle 2, 5 = flaps

5,5 are internal flags related to the options you selected

The rest is the calibration you made:
0 is the lowest possible value,  then your lowest set, then two central values (for central null zone) -- not used on jet throttles, then your set max, then theoreticl max 9127).

2 hours ago, nantelp said:

If I play with those values, would I be able to solve the problem?

NO! You change those in the calibration. You can't do anything different by messing with the parameters in the INI.

I think the problem is that you are taking the range 0-16383, which is the full throttle range inside the sim, and using it as the parameter for an Axis Throttle set control. Those latter controls are only used for forward thrust -- they hav no reverse zone. Furthermore they use the whole range -16384 to +16383 for forward thrust. So your idla, 0 , looks half=way through.

I think, in your Lua, you need to add 16384 and divide the rresult by 2.

Only the old "ThrottleN set" controls, originally used in FS98, have a reverse range. That's what FSUIPC's calibration uses. They can be assigned in FSUIPC, but I doubt they'd work in your aircraft (though you could try that first I suppose).

Pete

 

[nantelp]

In the airbus the reverser zone is action by the throttle arms, so if I understand you this will be using a range -16384 to +16383 with a null zone in the middle. Because my throttle

is configured from 0-16383 by PFCcom64, they only supply forward trust. To my knowledge PFC doesn’t sale any 2 jets throttle that have the reverser zone with the throttle arm like the airbus, they only have this configuration with turboprop quadrant.

That's ok with me, what I do not understand is why the left throttle arm is not coming all the way back to the 0 THR level position, but the right throttle arm does.

When you say ''in your Lua, you need to add 16384 and divide the result by 2'' at that point you loose me. Where would I find my LUA? Where could I found some reading on this?

Thanks

Pierre

[Pete Dowson]

8 hours ago, nantelp said:

To my knowledge PFC doesn’t sale any 2 jets throttle that have the reverser zone with the throttle arm like the airbus, they only have this configuration with turboprop quadrant.

There are really no throttle units with throttle levers doing anything but provide a continuous range. The only difference between the forward thrust and the reverse is a matter of interpretation. Standard joystick levers when calibrated in Windows give the range -16384 to +16383. With standard Sim assignments, that's ALL forward thrust, with idle at -16384 (plus maybe a set null zone). For reverse of the same lever a portion of the lever movement is designated as reverse, and treated differently. The turboprop one is no different -- it just has markings and maybe a detent. the lever is just the same.

Reverse thrust in the sim is obtained either via a different control, or, as used n FSUIPC, an old FS98-dated control (still supported though unpublished) which has the range below 0 used for reverse. Internally -16384 to -1 is all reverse, though each jet imposes a reverse thrust limit, specified in its AIRCRAFT.CFG file. eg the737 would have a figure of 0.25 there, meaning 25%. So the reverse range is -4096 to 0. 

In FSUIPC, when calibrating with reverse range, FSUIPC does all this manipulation for you. 

8 hours ago, nantelp said:

When you say ''in your Lua, you need to add 16384 and divide the result by 2'' at that point you loose me. Where would I find my LUA? Where could I found some reading on this?

Sorry, ignore all that. I was getting mixed up with someone with a similar question.

This point is the one I missed:

On 11/24/2019 at 7:26 PM, nantelp said:

My problem is that the throttle 1 is not coming all the way down to the 0 THR, but throttle 2 is ok. see attach picture.

So here i don't understand. Throttle 2 works as you want it but not Throttle 1. but both are calibrated properly in PFC? 

If both are providing the same, correct, values, and both are assigned in the same way and noeither calibrated in FSUIPC, then they simply cannot act differently. Therefore wither your calibration is not done properly, or your assignment is different one to the other.

Looking at the calibrations:

17 hours ago, nantelp said:

J2-2=5,5,0,17,58,70,116,127
J2-3=5,6,0,10,15,15,114,127

Try changing 
J2-2=5,5,0,17,58,70,116,127
to
J2-2=5,5,0,17,19,19,116,127

Here I'm just trying to make throttle 1 similar to 2, as an experiment. i think you somehow have a central null zone calibrated. This removes it.

Pete

 

[nantelp]

Thanks again,

This is what I was trying to also do, I will try changing the numbers later today,. I did forgot to ask you what is the best calibration method I should use in PFCcom64:

1-  just go in quadrant option and hit ''assign to aircraft''

2- In the quadrant option calibrate using the ''manual'' way

3- In quadrant option calibrate using the ''automatic" way

Each options gives me a different J2-2 and J2-3 figures.

Pierre

 

[Pete Dowson]

2 minutes ago, nantelp said:

This is what I was trying to also do, I will try changing the numbers later today,. I did forgot to ask you what is the best calibration method I should use in PFCcom64

I always do it manually. You control eexcatly where things start and stop, and set null zones at either extreme so you know you can always set them. Do not trust those pots to always return the same value in the same place. They use resistance in wire or carbon, and that varies with temperature, humidity, and so on. set the minimum and maximum positions allowing a little movement beyond.

5 minutes ago, nantelp said:

Each options gives me a different J2-2 and J2-3 figures.

Only 2 and 3 are calibration options. Number 1 is to get your calibrations automatically assigned when you load that aircraft.

Pete

 

[nantelp]

Ok I will use the manual option. For that quadrant the only to limit I can enter is the lower and higher, no null zone.

Pierre

[Pete Dowson]

3 minutes ago, nantelp said:

Ok I will use the manual option. For that quadrant the only to limit I can enter is the lower and higher, no null zone.

A "null zone" is just a part of the lever movement which is not taking part in sending different values to the sim! You set a null zone at both ends by pressing the set buttons with the lever a little away from the stops!

You can use the Automatic way too, and this computes the null zones for you (fixed at 10 units). it may work better for you, i don't know. i always found it better to select it myself.

Pete

 

 

[nantelp]

Hi Pete,

Not sure if I did the right thing, before changing the values for J2, I did the calibration within PFCcom64 using automatic. See the picture for the result.

The when I looked at the J2 setting in the INI file, I saw that the new result were revised.

New value:

J2-0=5,30,0,20,35,35,108,127
J2-2=5,5,0,7,19,19,125,126
J2-3=5,6,0,0,58,70,126,126
J2-5=5,32,0,20,64,64,108,127

But , I still have the same result, throttle 1 doesn't go down to 0 THR like throttle 2. 

So now my question is, should I change J2-2 to look like this J2-2=5,5,0,7,58,70,125,126 so it looks like J2-3 which works correctly?

Pierre 

I have included the INI file

PFCcom64.ini

[nantelp]

I just made some tests with different value:

J2-2=5,5,0,7,58,70,125,126

and

J2-2=5,5,0,0,58,70,125,126

Same problem, 

But I realized that when I use 

J2-2=5,5,0,0,58,70,125,126

J2-3=5,6,0,0,58,70,126,126

When using those values with the PMDG777. Suddenly the J2 and J3 arm reacted like in the airbus. I guest it is because I change the 5,5,0,7 to 5,5,0,0.

So  know I do not want to fixe the airbus by creating a problem with the other 2 jets plane, do you think I could use a user configure quadrant for the airbus?

Pierre

[Pete Dowson]

2 hours ago, nantelp said:

So  know I do not want to fixe the airbus by creating a problem with the other 2 jets plane, do you think I could use a user configure quadrant for the airbus?

That's what user configured quadrant facilities are for.

Pete

 

[nantelp]

Hi again,

The user configured quadrant worked fine, but I still have the same problem with Throttle 1. But know I can test without impacting the J2 setup of other plane. I now have U1 to play with.

I did two tests.

First, I tried to define the 2 throttle axis using the ThrottleR option, it kind of work but in the sim the Throttles are not stable, they are jerky and shaking . 

Then, I reconfigured the quadrant using the normal Throttle and I configured them with a null zone (I think),  see below:

U1-0=5,30,0,20,30,30,108,127
U1-2=5,5,0,10,16,16,121,127
U1-3=5,6,0,7,56,72,119,127
U1-5=4,32,0,20,56,72,108,127

with this configuration I am back to square one.

Any advice?

Pierre

 

 

[Pete Dowson]

19 minutes ago, nantelp said:

Then, I reconfigured the quadrant using the normal Throttle and I configured them with a null zone (I think),  see below:

U1-2=5,5,0,10,16,16,121,127
U1-3=5,6,0,7,56,72,119,127

with this configuration I am back to square one.

I don't like that 16,16 in the Throttle 1 setting. i've no idea how you finish up with that. try 

U1-2=5,5,0,10,56,72,121,127

Your "NULL ZONE" is not recorded in the settings, only the places you marked minimum and maximum: 10-121 for Thr1, 7-119 for throttle 2. If your true measured min and max values are outside that range the difference is your Null Zone.

I'm afraid I've no idea what your aircraft is doing, throttle control wise. It makes no sense at l that the same actions on each of two throttles have different results. Maybe the aircraft itself is mis-installed. Might be worth uninstalling and reinstalling it.  If that doesn't help, try logging Axis events (an item in the FSUIPC Logging tab). Then you can see exactly the results of your assignments and actions.  You can see this in real time by enabling the console log 9you may need to make the sim run in Windowed mode to see that).

Pete

 

[nantelp]

Hi, 

I did re-installed the aircraft and I reconfigures PFCcom64 to use:

U1-2=5,5,0,10,56,72,121,127

U1-3=5,6,0,7,56,72,119,127

I also create a new profile in FSUIPC. 

I have attach the logfile.

 FSUIPC5.2.log

In the log you can see that the T1 and T2 as different Param value T1 is 3280 and T2 is 2595. Is this ok? should they not be the same?

 

AXIS_SPOILER_SET
   443781 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE1_SET
   443781 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3280 (0x00000cd0) THROTTLE1_SET
   443781 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
   443781 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2595 (0x00000a23) THROTTLE2_SET
   443797 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66382 (0x0001034e), Param= -16055 (0xffffc149) 

[Pete Dowson]

6 hours ago, nantelp said:

In the log you can see that the T1 and T2 as different Param value T1 is 3280 and T2 is 2595. Is this ok? should they not be the same?

Not necessarily. There are only a maximum od 127 possible values those throttles will return. Even if you had them all 9whereas you only have 111 ad 112 respectivel0, there would still be 256 FS throttle units to just one difference in your throttle output. 3280 - 2595 = 685, so only a little more that 2 values.  To get two pots which provide exactly the same value at exactly the same position may not be impossible, but it is certainly very difficult using normal resistive pots, which is what PFC used.

I wouldn't worry unduly. Even if the difference was enough to be noticeable with the resulting thrust (N1%), just adjust the throttles appropriately. Except in a brand new freshly commissioned airliner the throttles are unlikely to line up to give the same thrust in any case. I've had many cockpit rides (when it was still permitted and easy to get into) and they are rarely in line.

Pete

 

[nantelp]

Hi Pete,

It seem that I am running out of runways. It is not a big deal, except that  the left engine can never be put at 0 idle when on the ground. Just for my curiosity, if the add-on plane was setup to be able to leverage FSUIPC calibration" and the "Joystick Calibration”, would I be able to solve my problem? I am asking because yesterday I downloaded the CRJ professional (as an update) and I notice that in the EFB option they have include the possibility to use FSUIPC to calibrate the throttles (see picture).

 

So maybe I can ask Aerosoft  to offer the same option for the Airbus series?

 

 

[Pete Dowson]

2 hours ago, nantelp said:

It seem that I am running out of runways. It is not a big deal, except that  the left engine can never be put at 0 idle when on the ground. Just for my curiosity, if the add-on plane was setup to be able to leverage FSUIPC calibration" and the "Joystick Calibration”, would I be able to solve my problem?

Sorry, I don't know becase I don't really understand your problem. In just the previous message you were mentioning only the small difference in the axis values.

Pete

 

[nantelp]

I was hopping to be able to get my Throttle1 to act like the throttle 2. Meaning to get both throttles to be at idle state (0 THR) before I start my engines. see picture

As you can see, T1 sits higher to the 0 THR mark but T2 is ok. This is the way they are when I load the plane in Cold and Dark state and they stay that way until I take off or land. I would like the throttle1 and 2 to be equally set at 0 THR. when I am un the ground, like this :

So I am looking for a way to bring T1 to sit lower, equal to T2.

Hope this help you understand my problem.

I am trying to understand why is T1 not going as far down as T2?

Pierre

[Pete Dowson]

13 hours ago, nantelp said:

So I am looking for a way to bring T1 to sit lower, equal to T2.

Hope this help you understand my problem.

I am trying to understand why is T1 not going as far down as T2?

Sorry, when I said I didn't understand the problem, I meant that I don't understand why is T1 not going as far down as T2!

If the same sort of values are being sent -- i.e. close to 0 or -16484 (depending on which control is assigned) at idle setting -- for both throttles, then they must surely react the same! The Log you attached earlier did show that 0 was being sent by both. (Though see below for questions on that).

I don't think that aircraft likes being given THROTTLE1_SET controls. I don't know how they managed to make the two throttles behave differently, but you could try unchecking the throttles in the PFC calibration and instead assigning them in FSUIPC "direct to calibration" and calibrating there (ensuring in the calibration you set for "No Reverse Zone").

If that gives you problems, just try assigning in FSUIPC to the FS controls "Axis throttle1 set" and "Axis throttle2 set" without calibration.

Pete

LOG ANALYSIS

First off, when you provide a log, please do NOT press the "New Log" button. That closes the current log and opens a new one, losing all of the valuable initialisation information.

Nevertheless, looking more closely at the LOG you attached, this sequence, which keeps repeating, all occurs within a millisecond:

   443953 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65694 (0x0001009e), Param= 0 (0x00000000) ELEVATOR_SET
   443953 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65695 (0x0001009f), Param= 0 (0x00000000) AILERON_SET
   443953 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65696 (0x000100a0), Param= 0 (0x00000000) RUDDER_SET
   443953 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66382 (0x0001034e), Param= -16055 (0xffffc149) AXIS_SPOILER_SET
   443953 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE1_SET
   443953 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3280 (0x00000cd0) THROTTLE1_SET
   443953 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
   443953 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2595 (0x00000a23) THROTTLE2_SET

Now I don't know what is sending these, but if they arise from the PFC device then you have a fault somewhere, all the axes are "jittering". 

But it could be that they are sent by the aircraft code, so could you do similar logging 9without prssing the NEW LOG button, with a different, maybe default, aircraft please? If it is the device the log will show similarly.

Finally, the Log seems to only really show the same thing repeated over and over 9which is why I suspect the aircraft itslef of originating these). What you need to do is move both Throttles to max and then back to idle so that the log shows all the changes between those.

 

[nantelp]

Hi Pete,

I am so glad you are helping me, sorry for the misunderstanding. I do have the first part of the log, see attach. Sorry for the NEW LOG, it was the first time I was using this part of FSUIPC.FSUIPC5.1.log

One question about ''could you do similar logging 9without prssing the NEW LOG button, with a different, maybe default, aircraft", P3D doesn't have a default aircraft that use my 2 jet quadrant, can I use the PMDG 777 to do this test? this way I will keep using the same quadrant. 

For this test "try unchecking the throttles in the PFC calibration and instead assigning them in FSUIPC "direct to calibration" and calibrating there (ensuring in the calibration you set for "No Reverse Zone"). " , the throttle arms doesn't move in the sim. .

When I did "try assigning in FSUIPC to the FS controls "Axis throttle1 set" and "Axis throttle2 set" without calibration", same thing when I move the arms nothing happened in the sim, but on initialization T1 did move up and was offset with T2. 

It seems that I need to enable the throttles in PFCcom64, it the only configuration that works. 

in PFCcom64- Throttle enable and in FSUIPC = "direct to calibration"  and no calibration

I will do the log test when I know which aircraft I should use. Also can I delete the 2 log files I have FSUIPC5.1 and 5.2, so I can start clean? My understanding now is even if I send to console window, it is still creating a log file, correct?

Thanks Again

Pierre

[Pete Dowson]

1 hour ago, nantelp said:

'could you do similar logging 9without prssing the NEW LOG button, with a different, maybe default, aircraft", P3D doesn't have a default aircraft that use my 2 jet quadrant, can I use the PMDG 777 to do this test? this way I will keep using the same quadrant. 

Any 2 engined jet can use the same quadrant, but do you use PMDG with no problems? Because that has difficulties with FSUIPC or PFC supplied throttle inputs too, 

1 hour ago, nantelp said:

It seems that I need to enable the throttles in PFCcom64, it the only configuration that works. 

Hmm. That's a bit strange, unless I mis-rememebering how it works.

With them unchecked in PFC are you not seeing any input registered in the Axis Assignment tab of FSUIPC? If there's nothing going through to FSUIPC then, yes, re-enable them in PFC but still do those two tests I mentioned.

2 hours ago, nantelp said:

in PFCcom64- Throttle enable and in FSUIPC = "direct to calibration"  and no calibration

Is that an unfinished sentence? Else it makes no sense. And with "direct to calibration" you have to calibrate in FSUIPC. That's what "direct to calibration" implies.

2 hours ago, nantelp said:

I will do the log test when I know which aircraft I should use.

Best a default two engined aircraft. Doesn't matter which, as long as the two engines each use a throttle. You don't need to fly, just see how the on-screen levers respond. Even a prop would show the same.

2 hours ago, nantelp said:

Also can I delete the 2 log files I have FSUIPC5.1 and 5.2, so I can start clean?

FSUIPC creates a new Log file every time it startes. Your old ones are irrelvant. Pressing the NEW LOG button starts another new one, renaming the previous one with .1 then .2 etc. You don't get those if you don't start NEW LOGs during a session.

Pete

 

[nantelp]

Hi Pete,

For the other aircraft test it was done using the two piston engine Lockheed Electra 10A-Blank, I only assign the 2 jet quadrant to the aircraft in PFCcom64, nothing was configured in FSUIPC. During the test I move both throttle up and down twice. Here is the log file FSUIPC5 - PFC setup only.log  In that file you can see that FSUIPC only recorded the movement event of the Throttles.

.In order to start clean I re-installed FSUIPC and PFCcom64 and I am not using profiles. 

The first test I did was in PFCcom, I assigned the 2 jet quadrant to the airbus aircraft- as you can see on the picture the enable was not check.

In the SIM the throttles didn't work.

In FSUIPC in the axis assignment  I can see movement for both throttles 

Then if I configure both axis to Send direct to FSUIPC Calibration 

and I do not calibrate them ..

Then the Throttle works in the SIM. .

If I Calibrate them 

Both the throttles are no longer working in the sim.

 

If I enable the quadrant in PFCCom64 

and I keep the axis to send direct without using the calibration option, the throttles are working in the sim. If I calibrate them they stop working in the sim

Then I conducted the test "assigning in FSUIPC to the FS controls "Axis throttle1 set" and "Axis throttle2 set" without calibration." with a fresh install of FSUIPC and PFCcom64.

 First I assigned the quadrant to the aircraft in PFCcom64 

Then I configured FSUIPC axis 

no calibration

.And to my surprise the throttles work in the SIM, I have attached both the PFCcom64.ini and the FSUIPC.ini for your reference

FSUIPC5.ini PFCcom64.ini

Of course if I calibrate the Throttles they stop working in the SIM

Again ,thanks for the time you are spending helping me.

Pierre

P.S: with both configurations "send to direct to FSUIPC for calibration" "and "send to FS" the issue with Throttle 1 is still there.

 

[Pete Dowson]

2 hours ago, nantelp said:

P.S: with both configurations "send to direct to FSUIPC for calibration" "and "send to FS" the issue with Throttle 1 is still there.

The pictures are a waste of your time for me. the words are erfectly adequate.

But the words that are missing are what the range of values (minimum to maxiumum) you could see operating in the IN box in the Axis Assignments. The whole point is that if those values are correctly going from -16384 to +16383, or close, then the assignment to Axis_Throttle ... controls must work fine or there's a bug in your aircraft.

You finished, oddly in a PS, saying that Throttle 1 still did not get you to idle. is that with all aircraft? What about single engined aircraft? Are you really saying that you can't use the thottles at all?  Or did you just mean the Aerosoft Airbus.

And if you calibrate in FSUIPC do the throttles not work in all aircraft, or just the Aerosoft Airbus?

The INI file attachments aren't really useful. The FSUIPC does prove that you assigned correctly:

0=17Z,512,F,66420,0,0,0    -{ TO SIM: AXIS_THROTTLE1_SET }-
1=17R,512,F,66423,0,0,0    -{ TO SIM: AXIS_THROTTLE2_SET }-

but I believed that in any case.

If the problems are ONLY with the Aerosoft Airbus and none of what I've suggested you try works, then I'm afraid it is an Aerosoft matter. This is espcially true if you are getting the correct range as I asked you to check.

Pete