BC Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 Pete, ever since you instituted the throttle sync in FSUIPC, it has wreaked havoc on the PFC console. The throttles won't respond properly, no.1 will go to idle until reminded to go back to commanded position by cycling the lever. Then it goes bonkers again. Tonight, I selected the throttle sync option in FSUIPC so I could get a flight in and now wether the box is checked or not, no.1 controls both engines and no.1 still jumps around occasionally, uncommanded. DANG! Put out one fire and three more spring up! Thought the latest point release would sort that out, it happened with .12, but no joy... BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dowson Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 Pete, ever since you instituted the throttle sync in FSUIPC, it has wreaked havoc on the PFC console. The throttles won't respond properly, no.1 will go to idle until reminded to go back to commanded position by cycling the lever. Then it goes bonkers again. The FSUIPC throttle sync was implemented a long time ago. All I added revcently was alignment of the prop pitch and mixture. But it does absolutely nothing at all if you don't use it! And it most certainly is not intended to be used with PFC gear. Tonight, I selected the throttle sync option in FSUIPC so I could get a flight in and now wether the box is checked or not, no.1 controls both engines and no.1 still jumps around occasionally, uncommanded. What "box" is this? In FSUIPC? Why do you mean by "no. 1 controls .." and "no.1 jumps around"? The FSUIPC throttle sysnc option is used with game port and USB axes, just as all the FSUIPC joystick calibration facilities are. Please use the PFC facilities only for PFC axes. DANG! Put out one fire and three more spring up! I think you must be misinterpreting something else going on witth your kit. If you'd explain exactly how to reproduce your problem (don't use throttle sync in either FSUIPC or PFC for now) I'll look at it, but you are telling me nothing except that you seem to be using the wrong facilities. I know the throttle sync facility in PFC isn't right, unless you set all of throttle, prop pitch and mixture/condition from PFC's levers (then it works fine). I have fixed that here, ready for the next version of PFC.DLL, but I have a lot of other stuff to do in the PFC.DLL yet. Regards, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Posted November 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 Howdy Pete! I guess I painted that with a broad brush. I am using the Cirrus II console which I believe you are familiar with. The throttle sync box I was talking about is in the FSUIPC technical menu. Normally deselected as I don't need it with the console as I have the 6 lever quadrant. I also don't have anything on the gameport and I have the option set to avoid possible interference from the gameport in the fsuipc menu. When the No.1 throttle started controlling BOTH engines on a twin (and the #1 Prop and #1 Mixture controlling both engines), I started hunting around for the cause. Now, when this was going on, checking the throttle (prop, mix) action in the PFC menu, all levers worked as designed. Move #1, #1 moves. Move #2, #2 moves. Back in the sim, #1 lever was controlling both engines, the #1 prop and mix the same. So I looked to see if something went weird in the FSUIPC menu. The throttle sync box was unchecked, but I still couldn't get independent control back. So I selected it, exited the menu and then went back to the menu and deselected it. No joy. Then I switched airplanes and everything was fine. Went back to the original airplane and it too was fine for the rest of the session. This weirdness only cropped up in the past week or so. I am using the latest and greatest versions of FSUIPC, WideFS (both registered), GPSOut and advdisp. The other day, I was flying a Beaver (single engine) and that was the first time any weirdness appeared. The engine kept trying to cut out on me and I thought it was because I was screwing up my fuel management. I did not pick up on it at the time, but now I see, or at least I believe, that the throttle kept going to idle uncommanded. That is the other half of the problem. Spurious and uncommanded throttle to idle motion. Recycling the throttle lever gets it back, but only for a while. It's almost as if I have an evil co-pilot. In both scenarios, there is no autothrottle present or any airspeed hold available on the aircraft I was using. The Beaver and the AC560 Commander. It's driving me nuts as it only seems to appear at random. Last night after about 45 minutes, then OK for an hour afterwards. If I can reproduce the event, I'll capture whats going on in a log file and shoot it your way. Naturally, now that I raised the issue it will probably never happen again, right? Oh well, keep the faith! BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dowson Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 I am using the Cirrus II console which I believe you are familiar with. Yes, I've got one, though mostly I use the Jetliner Console. The throttle sync box I was talking about is in the FSUIPC technical menu. That's only for the FSUIPC throttle sync hotkey, which is for throttle controls in FS from game port or USB joysticks. Sorry if it isn't clear enough. The PFC throttle sync is in the PFC.DLL, but it needs fixing. When the No.1 throttle started controlling BOTH engines on a twin (and the #1 Prop and #1 Mixture controlling both engines), I started hunting around for the cause.Now, when this was going on, checking the throttle (prop, mix) action in the PFC menu, all levers worked as designed. Move #1, #1 moves. Move #2, #2 moves. Back in the sim, #1 lever was controlling both engines, the #1 prop and mix the same. That sounds like the throttle sync or prop sync was enabled in the PFC driver. The FSUIPC options don't operate on the PFC axes - the latter bypasses all that stuff. So I looked to see if something went weird in the FSUIPC menu. The throttle sync box was unchecked, but I still couldn't get independent control back. So I selected it, exited the menu and then went back to the menu and deselected it.No joy. This is because (a) the PFC axes don't go via the FS joystick assignments, and (b) the FSUIPC throttle sync only operates if you assign a Hot Key to it, and press it. Then I switched airplanes and everything was fine. Went back to the original airplane and it too was fine for the rest of the session. That sounds very much as if the "Prop Sync" was enabled in the aircraft in the earlier instance but not the latter. On request I originally treated FS's Pro Sync like PFC's Throttle Sync, but after similar problems, and not really knowing what other panel makers do with "prop sync", I am separating the facilities and not touching FS's prop sync at all. That is the other half of the problem. Spurious and uncommanded throttle to idle motion. Recycling the throttle lever gets it back, but only for a while. It's almost as if I have an evil co-pilot. That sounds like there's another input to FS's throttle somewhere. Either that of your PFC unit is palying up and giving occasional bad returns. If I can reproduce the event, I'll capture whats going on in a log file and shoot it your way. Naturally, now that I raised the issue it will probably never happen again, right? If you want to try an interim version of the PFC driver with the throttle sync facility 'fixed', write to me on petedowson@btconnect.com. But meanwhile, if you don't use PFC's throttle sync and make sure FS's prop sync is always off, there should be nothing wrong. I cannot understand your throttles going to idle though, that's suspiciously like alternative inputs somewhere. Regards, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Posted November 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 Howdy Pete. Just tried it and got the weird throttle action again. This time I captured the event in a log file. Here is the file: ********* FSUIPC, Version 3.125 by Pete Dowson ********* User Name="removed by me" User Addr="removed by me" FSUIPC Key is provided WideFS Key is provided [Continuation log requested by user] Module base=61000000 ClassOptions: UIPCMAIN=FF7F, FS98MAIN=FF7F, FS2KMAIN=FF5E WeatherOptions(Orig)=601CB72D[601CB72D] InitDelay: 0 seconds WeatherReadInterval=4 LogExtras=1 1227984 System time = 12:04:11, FS2004 time = 12:03:04 (21:03Z) 1227984 *VIS* SM: Min=0.00, MaxRny=10.00, MaxOvc=20.00, MaxCld=20.00, MaxClr=60.00, Upper=60.00, FT: LwrAlt=6000, UppAlt=25000 1227984 WeatherOptions set, now 601CB72D (timer=0) 1227984 LogExtras changed, now 1 1228031 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1228062 AP READOUTS: Flags1=00000000, Flags2=00000000 1229015 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1229015 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1229015 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1229078 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1229078 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1230922 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1234125 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1234281 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1234375 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1234375 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1234515 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1234515 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1234515 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1234515 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1234672 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1235281 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1235281 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1235328 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1235375 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1235515 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1235625 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1238500 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1239406 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1240172 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1240172 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1240218 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1240265 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1240265 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1240593 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1240672 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1240765 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1240875 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1254484 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1254484 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1254484 READex 0609, 1 bytes: 00 1254484 GetRealAddr(24000D72)=01852D7A (orig 2EC8) 1254484 WRITEex 2EC8, 2 bytes: 00 00 1254484 GetRealAddr(22000034)=61049214 (orig 0890) 1254484 WRITEex 0890, 2 bytes: 00 40 1254484 GetRealAddr(2200003C)=6104921C (orig 0928) 1254484 WRITEex 0928, 2 bytes: 00 40 1254484 GetRealAddr(22000044)=61049224 (orig 09C0) 1254484 WRITEex 09C0, 2 bytes: 00 00 1254484 GetRealAddr(2200004C)=6104922C (orig 0A58) 1254484 WRITEex 0A58, 2 bytes: 00 00 1254484 GetRealAddr(22000032)=61049212 (orig 088E) 1254484 WRITEex 088E, 2 bytes: 6A 3F 1254484 GetRealAddr(2200003A)=6104921A (orig 0926) 1254484 WRITEex 0926, 2 bytes: 00 40 1254484 GetRealAddr(22000042)=61049222 (orig 09BE) 1254484 WRITEex 09BE, 2 bytes: 00 00 1254484 GetRealAddr(2200004A)=6104922A (orig 0A56) 1254484 WRITEex 0A56, 2 bytes: 00 00 1277515 GetRealAddr(22000032)=61049212 (orig 088E) 1277515 WRITEex 088E, 2 bytes: A7 3D 1292234 LogExtras changed, now 0 Towards the end, I switched airplanes and the throttles were normal. Went back to the original aircraft and now OK. Ideas? BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dowson Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 Just tried it and got the weird throttle action again. This time I captured the event in a log file. A log from the PFC driver would be more relevant I think, but let's see: 1254484 GetRealAddr(24000D72)=01852D7A (orig 2EC8) All these are not useful in this context. You would get a more readable log just enabling IPC read/write, not extra data too. 1254484 WRITEex 0890, 2 bytes: 00 40 1254484 WRITEex 0928, 2 bytes: 00 40 Sets mixture full rich, engines 1 then 2. 1254484 WRITEex 09C0, 2 bytes: 00 00 1254484 WRITEex 0A58, 2 bytes: 00 00 Mixture full lean engines 3 and 4. 1254484 WRITEex 088E, 2 bytes: 6A 3F Prop lever, engine 1, nearly full forward (poor calibration perhaps?) 1254484 WRITEex 0926, 2 bytes: 00 40 Prop lever, Engine 2, full forward. 1254484 WRITEex 09BE, 2 bytes: 00 00 1254484 WRITEex 0A56, 2 bytes: 00 00 Prop levers, engines 3 and 4, off. 1277515 WRITEex 088E, 2 bytes: A7 3D Engine 1 prop lever reduced a little. Well, that's it! Sorry, there are no changes to any throttle settings recorded here. Maybe that's the problem? If you have throttle sync active in the PFC driver it will (in the currently released version) try to set all 6 axes (two throttles, two mixtures, two prop settings) each time any of the Engine 1 set of 3 change. Since there are no throttle settings made yet, the recorded value for the thottle will be zero. This is all done differently in the next version, but the solution in the current one is to (a) not use throttle sync, and (b) ensure prop sync is off in FS. Regards, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Posted November 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 Howdy again Pete! Strange that the mix and prop changed at all as I never touched them, they were at full for takeoff! I don't know where the setting for sync is in the pfc driver/menu. I am almost 100% certain it isn't set on the panel as there is no provision for it. Something is making my multi axis quadrant act like a single axis quadrant and I don't see where I could be doing it by mistake. Very strange indeed! I'll drop you a line and try the "fixed" pfc file, but first I'll see if I can duplicate the snag and THItime, get a pfc log for you to check out. Not to belabour the point however, when the throttle is doing its weirdness, everything checks out OK in the PFC menu. When I go back to the sim, its a "single axis" quadrant. Ya know, don't go nutz over this just yet. Maybe it IS a panel problem, unlikely, but let me see if I can get this snag to occur in a default twin. Rule out any red herrings. Thanks, BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Posted November 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Pete, Seems there may be a problem with the Commander, AC680. There is a note on their web site/FAQ page that sez this: "1. Throttle sync issues: After starting individual engines, throttles are not sync'ed or only one engine throttle is active. Use FSUIPC HOTKEYS to assign one key to re-sync the throttles. It works beautifully." Well, I have the opposite problem. Seems their gauge/model takes away my independent control. That would explain why the throttles work fine under the PFC menu but fail in the sim when the aircraft is loaded. Still don't know why the throttle goes to idle. Guess an e-pistle to the designers of that model are in order.... Come to think of it, FSUIPC is not required for their aircraft, so you shouldn't have to use your program to fix their model. I'll point that out to them. Thanks, BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dowson Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 I don't know where the setting for sync is in the pfc driver/menu. It's an additional control you can assign. there;s no checkbox for it. You'd only be able to use it if you re-programmed a button or switch for it. I am almost 100% certain it isn't set on the panel as there is no provision for it. You mean the FS prop sync I assume. That doesn't mean it isn't enabled. It only means you have no way to see if it is, nor switch it on or off by mouse. The switch is still there, in FS, and may or may not be "on" when you load your Flight. You can check. It'll be the "PropSync" parameter in the [systems.0] section of the .FLT file. I'll send the interim PFC driver (it'll be 1.73, the last stable one I've got -- i.e. one without half-baked new code in it -- but I'm working through a list of things I need to do, and it'll probably get to 1.80 for Release). Regards, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dowson Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Seems there may be a problem with the Commander, AC680. ... Ah, right. Still, try the revised PFC driver. Maybe you'll find the PFC throttle sync useful, or try the FSUIPC one initially but then switch it off, and save a Flight there and then! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airforce2 Posted November 29, 2003 Report Share Posted November 29, 2003 Pete; I'm seeing the same sorts of things here soon after starting with PFC 1.72...I'm flying the 767PIC right now and #1 throttle has grabbed control of both engines despite having none of the sync options selected in either PFC or FSUIPC. I've also had odd anomalies like not being able to start an engine etc. They generally go away if I restart FS...and if I revert to earlier PFC driver I don't see the glitches. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dowson Posted November 29, 2003 Report Share Posted November 29, 2003 I'm seeing the same sorts of things here soon after starting with PFC 1.72...I'm flying the 767PIC right now and #1 throttle has grabbed control of both engines despite having none of the sync options selected in either PFC or FSUIPC. I've also had odd anomalies like not being able to start an engine etc. They generally go away if I restart FS...and if I revert to earlier PFC driver I don't see the glitches. It's some sort of interaction with that ******* FS prop sync thing. I've taken all that out now. I wished I'd never set eyes on the blighter! :? Anyway, I'm releasing version 1.80 within the next two days, with quite a few other changes, so hang in there please. It will be okay. Regards, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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