Cockspur C510 assignments too complicated

[DaveSCUSA]

Hi John, still testing.

Noticed in your reply, you provided your C510 profile. I saw how you had DontLogThese= included.  I also assume the DontLogTheseIE= may be included.

[Profile.C510]
DontLogThese=65962,66523,65568,67197,66071,67072,66030,67073,67226
DontLogTheseIE=ENGINE_Throttle_1,ENGINE_Throttle_2
1=C510 Cockspur

I believe I have made my situation too complicated. Programming in the profiles and Lua event.buttons, event.keypresses, conditions. I'm going to just use C510.ini for input. If I can figure ou the combinations of events, input events and Lvars to drive the C510.

Do you use the Alpha and Bravo with your C510. If so, could you show a few entries that work? Specifically, when I turn my Alpha battery switch on - cockpit remains dark. Turn the battery on via Air manager, turns on. AVN PWR doesn't turn on with the Alpha, works with Air Manager. Also, no joy with the Alternators.

The Air Manage code for the above is contained in file C510_AM.Lua. Non-working, just to display code.

Please can you give me some examples from your setup to help me thru this.

Thanks

 

C510.ini FSUIPC7.ini myevents.txt FSUIPC7.log

C510_AM.Lua

[John Dowson]

7 hours ago, DaveSCUSA said:

Do you use the Alpha and Bravo with your C510. If so, could you show a few entries that work?

I have the Alpha and Bravo on my flight system, but I don't have the C510 installed there yet - and haven't used this system for quite a while now and everything will need updating.
I also don't fly this aircraft - I purchased to help others out with assignments as it is quite different from most other aircraft.

7 hours ago, DaveSCUSA said:

Specifically, when I turn my Alpha battery switch on - cockpit remains dark. Turn the battery on via Air manager, turns on. AVN PWR doesn't turn on with the Alpha, works with Air Manager. Also, no joy with the Alternators.

Ok, I can look into the assignments needed for the batteries and the alternator.

7 hours ago, DaveSCUSA said:

Please can you give me some examples from your setup to help me thru this.

As I said, I don't currently have this fully configured - only a couple of assignments on my development system. However, I will take a look and get back to you.

Looking at your ini, these assignments are wrong:

Quote

22=PF,137,PC510_Pitot_Switch_On,0        -{Pitot_Switch_On}-
23=PF,138,PC510_Pitot_Switch_Off,0    -{Pitot_Switch_Off}-

and should be:

Quote

22=PF,137,CPC510_Pitot_Switch_On,0        -{Pitot_Switch_On}-
23=PF,138,CPC510_Pitot_Switch_Off,0    -{Pitot_Switch_Off}-

Did you manually change this?

John

[DaveSCUSA]

Thanks

I may have. Don't remember. Most of the button programming I did with the UI. I may have changed it manually. Don't think so. 

[John Dowson]

Also, have you read the documentation for the C510, especially the start-up procedures? You have to open the fuel cut-off levers under each throttle - see page 27. Are you doing this before trying to start the engines?
 

[kaha]

I have the Cockspur A22, battery and alternator switches are not working with standard assignments. But it has input events for it, named "ELECTRICAL_Battery_1" and "ELECTRICAL_Alternator_1". Maybe the C510 also has it?

[John Dowson]

2 hours ago, kaha said:

I have the Cockspur A22, battery and alternator switches are not working with standard assignments. But it has input events for it, named "ELECTRICAL_Battery_1" and "ELECTRICAL_Alternator_1". Maybe the C510 also has it?

The C510 does have these input events, although I think the standard controls might also work, or at least some. Will take a look when I have time, but also need to familiarise myself with the start-up procedure first.

[DaveSCUSA]

4 hours ago, John Dowson said:

Also, have you read the documentation for the C510, especially the start-up procedures? You have to open the fuel cut-off levers under each throttle - see page 27. Are you doing this before trying to start the engines?
 

Yes, I have set a button for each. Doesn't work without the battery.

[DaveSCUSA]

1 hour ago, John Dowson said:

The C510 does have these input events, although I think the standard controls might also work, or at least some. Will take a look when I have time, but also need to familiarise myself with the start-up procedure first.

Few of the standard controls work, especially if you want to see the cockpit switches move. Most of that is driven by Lvars or Input Events.

An example is the battery. The C510 uses Toggle Master Battery but there is Battery On and Off which doesn't work. Developers should provide a list of simconnect events or at least add their aircraft to MobiFlight or SPAD.neXt.

[DaveSCUSA]

I contacted Cockspur and absolutely received no support. Too difficult to find the events, variables. Spend too much time trying to make it work and not flying.

I'm removing the C510 and going to the DA62 Mod. It works.

Cockspur basically sod it to all the Alpha and Bravo users.

[John Dowson]

17 hours ago, DaveSCUSA said:

Developers should provide a list of simconnect events or at least add their aircraft to MobiFlight or SPAD.neXt.

Well, they should provide information on how to control the aircraft, whether this be standard events, lvars/hvars or input events. However, it is not difficult to detemine how any switch works, by either using FSUIPC logging (which will log events and input events. when selected) or using the facilities provided by MSFS (devel functionality, mainly behaviors console).
I wouldn't expect developers to provide presets or Spad.Next snippets. These are both community-driven efforts. And as the C510 seems to mainly use Input Events, you cannot use presets/calculator code for most functions of this aircraft.

And you must see the difficulty here. Your Alpha/Bravo controllers are nothing like the actual instruments in the C510, and so some mapping is necessary, and people will want to map these controls differently. For example, the Alpha uses a magneto to start the aircraft (i.e. it is for GS aircraft). There is no sensible mapping of this to engine L/R start buttons - you have to decide how you want to do this. But once you have decoded which controls/buttons to use. it should be relatively straightforward to implement/assign. I got these working using my saitek X55 controllers within a few minutes, assigned to the appropriate Input Events.

I will look into assigning these on my alpha/bravo. What would you like to use, for example, for the engine start buttons on the alpha/bravo? 

[John Dowson]

I have just looked at the ini and log files you posted, and they report no devices acquired for use by FSUIPC7:

Quote

      203 ---------------------- Joystick Device Scan -----------------------
      203 -------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote

[JoyNames]
A=Alpha Flight Controls
A.GUID={34A911C0-0F5B-11EE-8006-444553540000}
B=T-Rudder
B.GUID={34A986F0-0F5B-11EE-8008-444553540000}
C=Bravo Throttle Quadrant
C.GUID={34A986F0-0F5B-11EE-8009-444553540000}
D=vJoy Device << MISSING JOYSTICK >>
D.GUID={F3BF9E60-91DF-11EE-8002-444553540000}
F=<< MISSING JOYSTICK >> << MISSING JOYSTICK >>
0=Mad Catz V.1 Stick
0.GUID={F8160250-AB1C-11EE-8001-444553540000}
E=Mad Catz V.1 Stick
E.GUID={F8160250-AB1C-11EE-8001-444553540000}

So your devices are not being controlled by FSUIPC7.
No idea why this is. Are your devices working and recognised by FSUIPC or not?

And this is nothing to do with the aircraft you are using...If your devices are not recognised, we need to look into this first rather than assignments for a specific aircraft,,,

You have raised quite a few support requests on this so I presume your devices were recognised. What has changed?

John

[John Dowson]

You are also using a very old beta version of FSUIPC7, 7.3.26g:

Quote

********* FSUIPC7, Version 7.3.26g (23rd November 2023) by John Dowson *********

Please update to the latest and only supported version, 7.4.11. You need a later version to assign to Input Events correctly.

[DaveSCUSA]

I stopped using the C510 and am going to fly the Diamond DA62. The C510 was too complicated.

I just installed 7.4.11. I have 2 PCs on which I run MSFS. The main server has all the devices. The PC I use for testing has only a Joystick attached.

There are several B: events used as well as events with two indices. I have used the SPAD.neXt event monitor (direct simconnect) to view the parameters. 

Is there a way yet, perhaps with 7.4.11 that one can write to an Input Event?

Another item I'm experiencing is using the keypress assignments, I receive some squirrely results I think from windows. If I condigured a buttoon a mini-keypad as ralt+rshift+F1, the windows help pops up. If I configure ralt+rshift+N, a window pops up in MSFS. Aren't the shifts supposed to modify windows or MSFS keys to prevent duplication?

In reading KeyboardFocus=Yes or Key Focus FSUIPC it seems these deal with keypresses sent from FSUIPC. In my ignorance, the TrapMSFSkeys entry makes no sense to me. Not sure what TrapMSFSkeys=Yes means. 

All I want to do is use a keypad that can send keypresses to FSUIPC (e.g.  ralt+rshift+N which shows correctly in the Assignment) and only trigger that event.key or [Keys] programming.

Thanks John for your time.

[DaveSCUSA]

PS - Write to an Input Event without using Lua.

[John Dowson]

17 minutes ago, DaveSCUSA said:

I stopped using the C510 and am going to fly the Diamond DA62. The C510 was too complicated.

Ok. Not sure why - battery, avionics, starter all work easily via Input Events. The only difficulty I am having at the moment is for the fuel cut-off triggers and the pitot heat/static switch which don't seem straight-forward - I will look into these further tomorrow.

19 minutes ago, DaveSCUSA said:

There are several B: events used as well as events with two indices. I have used the SPAD.neXt event monitor (direct simconnect) to view the parameters. 

You can also use FSUIPC logging - events and Input Events, and open the logging console (Log->Open Console) to see the messages in real-time.

20 minutes ago, DaveSCUSA said:

Is there a way yet, perhaps with 7.4.11 that one can write to an Input Event?

Of course - just check Select for Input Event in the assignments panels. You can choose between Standard FS controls (including PM controls), Presets or Input Events for assignments.

25 minutes ago, DaveSCUSA said:

If I condigured a buttoon a mini-keypad as ralt+rshift+F1, the windows help pops up.

Thats strange, and I do not see that here. Windows normally uses the windows (or CMD) key, not the alt key, which is why it is recommended not to use this as a modifier (and I think I removed this in FSUIPC7).

26 minutes ago, DaveSCUSA said:

If I configure ralt+rshift+N, a window pops up in MSFS.

Yes, that seems to be the key combination for the nav log. No idea where this is defined - it isn't listed under the keyboard controls.

30 minutes ago, DaveSCUSA said:

Aren't the shifts supposed to modify windows or MSFS keys to prevent duplication?

Modifier keys just allow for more distinct assignments. Using them will not prevent anything else that is also using and receiving them.

31 minutes ago, DaveSCUSA said:

In reading KeyboardFocus=Yes or Key Focus FSUIPC it seems these deal with keypresses sent from FSUIPC.

Yes.

32 minutes ago, DaveSCUSA said:

In my ignorance, the TrapMSFSkeys entry makes no sense to me. Not sure what TrapMSFSkeys=Yes means. 

This is for receiving keys. Normally FSUIPC receives key press/release events from MSFS via SimConnect. However, for some button-controllers (i.e. controllers that send configurable key press combinations on a button press) the key presses will not be received. For such controllers, you can set this and FSUIPC7 will install a global keyboard hook and receive all key presses directly from windows and not from MSFS via SimConnect. You only need to set this option if you are using a button-controller that sends key presses that are not seen by FSUIPC7.

36 minutes ago, DaveSCUSA said:

All I want to do is use a keypad that can send keypresses to FSUIPC (e.g.  ralt+rshift+N which shows correctly in the Assignment) and only trigger that event.key or [Keys] programming.

FSUIPC7 cannot control how other programs respond to your key presses. Choose a combination that doesn't trigger other actions - there are many possible combinations.

John

[John Dowson]

27 minutes ago, John Dowson said:

The only difficulty I am having at the moment is for the fuel cut-off triggers and the pitot heat/static switch which don't seem straight-forward - I will look into these further tomorrow.

For the pitot static/off switch, you can use the lvar C510_Pitot_Switch_Position.

John

[DaveSCUSA]

1 hour ago, John Dowson said:

1. You can also use FSUIPC logging - events and Input Events, and open the logging console (Log->Open Console) to see the messages in real-time.

2. Yes, that seems to be the key combination for the nav log. No idea where this is defined - it isn't listed under the keyboard controls.

3. Of course - just check Select for Input Event in the assignments panels. You can choose between Standard FS controls (including PM controls), Presets or Input Events for assignments.

4. Modifier keys just allow for more distinct assignments. Using them will not prevent anything else that is also using and receiving them.

5. In reading KeyboardFocus=Yes or Key Focus FSUIPC it seems these deal with keypresses sent from FSUIPC.

1. Easy for you when you are most intimate with FSUIPC. Sonetimes it is confusing between the FSUIPC control Alphabetic description and what is listed in MSFS controls. SPAD.neXt provides the Simevent.

2. My real question was doesn't the Shifts prevent Windows or MSFS from acting on the base key. The N as ralt+rshift+N brings up the Nav Log. 

3. My question was is there an ability yet to WRITE an Input Event without using Lua? I have become quite familiar with assigning buttons and keys.

4. As above, it seems that MSFS recognizes the ralt+rshift+N combination as an N. The problem is that MSFS uses too many modifiers itself to find the combination it doesn't use. I thought I read somewhere that FSUIPC will recognize the Tab key and Windows key as modifiers. The don't work when assigning keypresses.

5. This is for output keypresses from FSUIPC. I is there any modifier for input keypresses. Many simmers want to use game keypad (which most send keyboard key combinations) for switches in MSFS. Neither Mobiflight nor spad.next will recognize these devices.

Thanks

[DaveSCUSA]

8 hours ago, John Dowson said:

And as the C510 seems to mainly use Input Events, you cannot use presets/calculator code for most functions of I will look into assigning these on my alpha/bravo. What would you like to use, for example, for the engine start buttons on the alpha/bravo? 

Because of this, I stopped using the C510. I am using a keypad for the fuel valve, ignition switches and starters. Just now, I got it to work with DA62 presets.

Is there a capability to write to an Input Event, I can then put it into a preset?

Thanks

[John Dowson]

12 hours ago, DaveSCUSA said:

1. Easy for you when you are most intimate with FSUIPC. Sonetimes it is confusing between the FSUIPC control Alphabetic description and what is listed in MSFS controls. SPAD.neXt provides the Simevent.

The controls/events listed when Select for FS control is checked ARE the sim events - I just replace the underscores with spaces and only capitalize the first letter to make it more readable and look better. All FS events/controls are also listed in a text document in your FSUIPC7 documents folder, both in alphabetical order and control number order.

12 hours ago, DaveSCUSA said:

2. My real question was doesn't the Shifts prevent Windows or MSFS from acting on the base key. The N as ralt+rshift+N brings up the Nav Log. 

This is a question for MSFS - nothing to do with FSUIPC7. I cannot do anything about this.

12 hours ago, DaveSCUSA said:

3. My question was is there an ability yet to WRITE an Input Event without using Lua? I have become quite familiar with assigning buttons and keys.

Of course, and I have told you this many times - just check Select for Input Event. You can assign buttons and keys to input events, as well as to entering/leaving an axis range. You cannot directly assign to an axis - you need lua for that.

12 hours ago, DaveSCUSA said:

4. As above, it seems that MSFS recognizes the ralt+rshift+N combination as an N. The problem is that MSFS uses too many modifiers itself to find the combination it doesn't use. I thought I read somewhere that FSUIPC will recognize the Tab key and Windows key as modifiers. The don't work when assigning keypresses.

It does recognise the tab key as an additional modifier, but not the windows key. I removed this as it invariably causes issues. See page 25 of the Advanced User guide for a list of the available modifiers (or shifts) :

Quote

shifts 8       normal
         +1    left shift
         +2    left control
         +4    left alt
         +16  tab (an added "shift" to give more combinations)
         +32  right shift
         +64  Menu key (the application key, to the right of the right Windows key)
         +128 right control
         +256 right alt

 

12 hours ago, DaveSCUSA said:

5. This is for output keypresses from FSUIPC. I is there any modifier for input keypresses. Many simmers want to use game keypad (which most send keyboard key combinations) for switches in MSFS. Neither Mobiflight nor spad.next will recognize these devices.

Not sure what you mean here. Presumably by output keypresses, you mean when FSUIPC7 sends keys, such as on a button press, and input keypresses are assignments to key presses in FSUIPC7? All modifier keys are available in both (although different shift values are used, as documented). You can also add offset conditions to key press assignments, as you can for button assignments.

11 hours ago, DaveSCUSA said:

Is there a capability to write to an Input Event, I can then put it into a preset?

As I keep saying, you can assign directly to Input Events. However, you cannot use input events in calculator code, so you cannot use them (i.e. B:vars) in presets. This is due to MSFS, not FSUIPC7. If you want to access B:vars / Input Events, there is a hack you can do (i.e. via changing the aircraft xml files) which I have explained in several posts, but I would not recommend this (it works by adding your own l:var to control the b:var, and then use the lvar).

John
 

[John Dowson]

@DaveSCUSA Please explain what issues you are having with assignments to this aircraft here, but at least please try what I have already advised you to use, i.e. input events.
And as I have said, the last time I looked at this aircraft I could not find anything to control the fuel cut-off triggers (bottom of throttle). I can take another look, when time permits, but I doubt I will find anything unless there has been an aircraft update. Apart from these, which you have to trigger manually in the VC, there should not be an issue starting this aircraft.

John

[DaveSCUSA]

Thank you,

Please see my answer to this post in the post titled "C510 Button Switch Dilemma". There are files there that demonstrate the issue. The FSUIPC7.ini has log Events and Input Events turned on. May take me a few minutes to reply in that post.

[John Dowson]

6 minutes ago, DaveSCUSA said:

Please see my answer to this post in the post titled "C510 Button Switch Dilemma". There are files there that demonstrate the issue. The FSUIPC7.ini has log Events and Input Events turned on. May take me a few minutes to reply in that post.

I have replied there and locked that post. Read my reply there, correct those issues, and tell me what your problem is here...DO NOT START YET ANOTHER THREAD ON THIS SAME ISSUE.

[DaveSCUSA]

OK

[John Dowson]

I have also just released 7.4.13 - please update before requesting any more support.

[DaveSCUSA]

Thank you,

I have succeeded in binding the Alpha and Bravo buttons to the C510 due to your input. In looking at all the posts, I have learned much and have finally used the profiles effectively.

There are switchs that have eluded me. They are both the fuel valves in the VC located on the trottle handles. The on/off functions log only     51813 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66494 (0x000103be), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_FUEL_VALVE_ENG1, 54141 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66494 (0x000103be), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_FUEL_VALVE_ENG1. No other events, input events or SImvars.

I added all "Fuel" LVars to myOffsets.txt with no results.

Are there any other methods to discover the items that drive these fuel events?

Thank you.

myOffsets.txt FSUIPC7.log