Selecting Exits

[JPL19]

Well, I'm wondering if you have anything in your bag of magic tricks that could help solve a problem with exits in FS9. This problem has plagued me in FS2k2, FS9, and on two different computers.

A lot of add on AC now have multiple exits, which is great. But I have a repeatable, so far unsolvable problem. The selection of any exit other than the default one works intermittently, at best. It normally works at start up, and at some point after I have gone through pre-starts and am ready to close everything up the ability to select the second exit fails. I then am either forced to fly with the cargo doors open (ha ha), or, go into the main menu and reselect the aircraft which puts all exits in the closed position. It is a regular occurrence, and seems to happen once I start running add ons through WideFS (ActiveSky or FS Meteo, RADAR Contact and FDC). Once it starts happening closing the add ons and WideFS does not solve the problem.

I have tried several different things. First, I have the exit key selected to a "non" shifted, alt or ctl key. "u" in this case for me. I had better luck, but still not reliable then assigning a joystick button to "select item 2", and then pressing the exit key immediately followed by the joystick button. I also tried assigning key presses in my CH throttle for a button press. Some luck, but not complete using a macro of "press-u, press-2, release-2, release-u", other combinations were less successful. Using the keyboard "default method" of press "exit key" press "2" rarely works in any press/ release sequence.

So there you have it. Not sure if there is anything you can recommend or do, but thought I'd throw it out for consideration.

Thanks.

Joe Lorenc

Registered user FSUIPC and WideFS

[Pete Dowson]

Well, I'm wondering if you have anything in your bag of magic tricks that could help solve a problem with exits in FS9.

...

This is a whole new side of FS I've never heard of! I've never used any exits in my cockpit, except the one to the kitchen to make a brew! :) As a consequence I really have little idea of what you are talking about.

I take it that there are now doors in some aircraft that can be opened and closed, and that this is done by a sequence of keys rather than a single control?

I've just scanned through the list of FS controls, and I see "Toggle Aircraft Exit". I assume this is the one? Are you saying that you follow this with a keypress, 1, 2, 3 et cetera to select which door it is, a bit like engine selection after E?

Have you tried setting the parameter for that control to the door number, instead of leaving it default to 0? I'm not saying that will work, but the parameters have been known to be used in some such circumstances, so it is worth a try.

Otherwise, if the sequences are supposed to work, but don't, do you think this might be a symptom on some panels which send loads of controls all the time -- the same problem that causes some A/P and other values to be accelerated all the time? If one of those controls intervened between the two parts of your sequence, it would certainly mess it up (same as using any other control between the Shift+P for Pushback and the 1 or 2 for selecting direction messes the latter up).

To check this, tell me which aircraft in the defaults in FS have multiple doors and I can test it here. If none of them do, how would I add multiple doors to one of the defaults without importing a whole cockpit?

Regards,

Pete

[JPL19]

Hello Pete,

Several of the default aircraft have second exits now, including the 737, 747, and 777 (cargo doors in each case).

You are correct in that it is a sequence of keys - the exit key plus the number of the exit for anything other than the first (actually labeled .0 in the aircraft.cfg file). There is an "exit rate" in the cfg file that controls the rate of opening or closing but has no effect on this issue. (The rate makes for some realistic movement effects, for some add ons it controls stairways instead of doors etc.)

The problem persists even with the default panels. But now that I think about it, it does seem to happen for sure once I start RADAR Contact, which does use the normal keyboard number keys for "response selections" (even across WideFS). I can not really say it doesn't happen without RADAR Contact, but maybe I'll try some flights with default ATC to see. However, even when I had the "select item 2" assigned to a joystick button (as in button-6 rather than a macro) the problem occurs. Also once it occurs even closing all add ons and WideFS doesn't solve it.

I'm sorry, but I don't follow the suggestion "Have you tried setting the parameter for that control to the door number, instead of leaving it default to 0? " There is only one option that I see for selecting an exit, rather than a series of choices for each exit number (but perhaps I misunderstand). You definitely are on the right path, as once this happens the ability for me to choose pushback direction fails also.

If I can find some unused keys I may be able to reassign the RADAR Contact keys also to see if that helps. They would have to be unused single keys for simplicity - I'll look into that.

Thanks for the prompt response!

Joe

[Pete Dowson]

You are correct in that it is a sequence of keys - the exit key plus the number of the exit for anything other than the first (actually labeled .0 in the aircraft.cfg file).

So I assume there's some delay after using the Toggle Exit control before anything happens -- otherwise how does it know you are not going to select 1 or 2 or 3 or something afterwards? Or does the control always toggle Exit 0 anyway, then any other doors you list with the numeric keys afterwards?

But now that I think about it, it does seem to happen for sure once I start RADAR Contact, which does use the normal keyboard number keys for "response selections" (even across WideFS).

I've always assigned "Ctrl+Shift+number keys" to the Radar Contact functions as the numeric keys are used for several things in FS. Pushback and turn, for one -- don't you do pushbacks?

I'm sorry, but I don't follow the suggestion "Have you tried setting the parameter for that control to the door number, instead of leaving it default to 0? " There is only one option that I see for selecting an exit, rather than a series of choices for each exit number (but perhaps I misunderstand).

Go to FSUIPC's Keys or Buttons page (depending on whether you want a keystroke or a joystick button for this), assign your key or button to the Toggle Aircraft Exit control, and also set the parameter (it's the field labelled "parameter") to, say, 1 2 or 3 for door 1, 2, or 3. The FSUIPC User Guide explains how to assign keys and buttons.

Regards,

Pete

[JPL19]

I changed the default choices for 1 & 2 in RADAR Contact for now to "q" and "w" (after reassigning those key functions in FS9). I didn't realize the effect RC would have especially running across WideFS - but that seems to have been it.

So far, that seems to have solved the problem. I now have exit-2, pushback-L and pushback-R each assigned as their own single buttons in my X-Keys control pad. So far today it has worked without any problems. I had previously given up on any turning pushbacks in FS9 (I used a LAGO add on in FS2k2).

Thanks for pointing out the parameter function - I will keep that in mind.

Thanks for your help.

Joe

[Pete Dowson]

I changed the default choices for 1 & 2 in RADAR Contact for now to "q" and "w" (after reassigning those key functions in FS9). I didn't realize the effect RC would have especially running across WideFS - but that seems to have been it.

The effect of running Radar Contact is the same whether it is via WideFS or locally. It uses FSUIPC's hot key facilities. The whole purpose of wideFs is to extend FSUIPC's interface to client PCs.

Thanks for pointing out the parameter function - I will keep that in mind.

Yes, but it doesn't work for Exit selection, nor pushback. I tried it.

Regards,

Pete

[rcbarend]

Hi Pete,

In my experiance these "select exit" problems are always caused by bad-designed gauges or addon programs, which , as you already said, continuously fire FS events, which make FS loose the releation between the "toggle exit" event and the following "select .." .

If someone has this problem, he will also have the same problem with pushback (followed by Left/Right) or "select engine" (followed by the engine number).

Example: there are a few XML gauges published that, depending on a certain condition, set the Smoke on/off. And they give an On or Off event every 55 msec, causing all these timed keystroke sequences to be messed up.

Rob

[jcboliveira]

I think Rob is right. It depends on the gauges and maybe in the modules, usually in a clean FS install I have no problems with mulyiple keystrokes but after a while it's becaming a pure luck event.

José

[bnepethomas]

If I've missed this in the doc I'll apologise now...

But is there a way to read the status of exits through FSUIPC, I've recently included code for Markers, so while I'm coding away though it'll be a good time to add support for door status indicators.

TIA

Peter Thomas

[Pete Dowson]

If I've missed this in the doc I'll apologise now...

But is there a way to read the status of exits through FSUIPC

Not that I know of, but then I'd never heard of exit controls till very recently. I wouldn't notice these things as I'm strictly a stay-in-the-cockpit pilot. :)

I've looked through all the stuff I have about things I can read from FS, and there's nothing obviously connected with exits that I can see, so it would have to be located deep in some part of FS. I suspect aircraft modellers familiar with MDL files (the ones which have to obey the Exit controls) might be able to say more about how their status could be detected.

Regards,

Pete

[whraven]

I have this same problem with a favorite add-on: Ready-for-Pushback Generation 2. Many others have reported the problem with this and other aircraft also. While a badly programmed XML gauge is often the cause, I don't believe it's a single gauge in the case of RFP, but rather the sheer number of gauges in the panel, and the complexity of the events they must support. Some people do not have the problem, leading me to believe it's also related to system performance. I've tried a number of dodges, including pre-programming buttons manually, as shown in the FSUIPC Advanced User Guide, and none work. :cry:

I was wondering, Pete, since the problem is fairly widely reported (at least among a certain group of users) and not always due to a broken gauge, is there a way to have FSUIPC send keystroke or command events *very fast* in order to get the two keys/commands to FS9 without having a gauge event intervene between them? :?:

[Pete Dowson]

Well, I'm wondering if you have anything in your bag of magic tricks that could help solve a problem with exits in FS9.

Sorry, I didn't even know there were FS-controllable operating doors until recently -- I thought those were fiddled special graphics effects using things like spoiler or flap settings.

Inside FS I have found just one indicator for doors -- for the main doors only.

A lot of add on AC now have multiple exits, which is great. But I have a repeatable, so far unsolvable problem. The selection of any exit other than the default one works intermittently, at best.

This may simply be the usual trouble with the interference of multiple controls being sent every second by complex panels -- I assume it is complex panels you are using? The same problem causes difficulties like the acceleration of changes to the heading, speed and other settings (for which I provided a "work-around" in FSUIPC).

The difficulty is easily seen if you try to use FS's pushback. You press Shift+P to start the pushback. That's fine. But then you press 1 or 2 to turn you left or right (or whichever way it is). If any other control comes between the Shift+P and that 1 or 2, then you are sunk -- it will not be directed to the correct part of FS. The Shift+P mode is closed, finished, not taking any more input.

I think the Doors are controlled by something like Ctrl+E (or is it Shift+E?) then the door number (1, 2, 3 ...). Isn't that right?

This will be working the same way as the pushback -- and if any other control is seen by FS between the Ctrl E and the number, that's it -- the selection is done. (The result should then be that the default, the main doors, are operated -- is this so?).

I really don't know what the answer is unless you dispense with the panel. It's not really a fault in FS -- though a design that needs a follow up like that is bit flawed in my opinion. For the pushback I did experiment with setting the 1 or 2 as a parameter (programming it in FSUIPC's Buttons or Keys), but that doesn't work.

When MS were questioned about this sort of thing, in relation to the unwanted acceleration of A/P values, they did imply that the panels which are doing this continuous sending of controls are really not designed correctly. Of course they didn't outright condemn them as "bad".

Regards,

Pete

[Jamie Fox]

When MS were questioned about this sort of thing, in relation to the unwanted acceleration of A/P values, they did imply that the panels which are doing this continuous sending of controls are really not designed correctly. Of course they didn't outright condemn them as "bad".

The words pot and kettle spring to mind.