Trigger an add-on AT the FS9 Main Menu?

[Agrajag]

Pete,

In working on this ActiveSky issue, we've worked out a few things and I'm wondering if you might be the perfect answer (well, FSUIPC) for it.

Apparently all the goofy work-arounds can be avoided if you first load FS9, set your intended departure flight and THEN load ActiveSky. Active Sky would then trigger, sense the correct departure airport, get the weather for it and you'd be ready to fly. In fact, it'd be great if, under this condition, ActiveSky could trigger playing of the ATIS info so that you'd know it finished its job and that it's safe to click "Fly Now!"

This got me wondering about FSUIPC. Clearly you're in memory early on in the FS9 load process because you can trigger the launching of other programs while FS9 is still early in its own loading.

First, are you able to sense ANY activity within the menu system of FS9 before anyone actually hits "Fly Now!"? In other words, can you potentially monitor changes going on to say, departure flight data, etc?

Second, could you allow Keys to work from there? I could set up say, TAB-A to launch ActiveSky and launch it right from the FS9 menu or are you unable to trap keystrokes at this stage?

The goofy step of loading AFTER FS9 is setup and then having to either a) check and wait for it to complete its download process or b) toggle the AI on and off, just clearly isn't very optimal or realistic. I keep thinking there has to be a more elegant approach to this.

It'd be really swell of Microsoft if they'd allow for third-party control of the weather right from the Weather section of the main menu, perhaps as part of the User-Defined category but that's some pretty healthy wishing on my part.

[Pete Dowson]

Apparently all the goofy work-arounds can be avoided

What "goofy work-arounds"? I really don't see why you've got such a thing about something so simple.

if you first load FS9, set your intended departure flight and THEN load ActiveSky. Active Sky would then trigger, sense the correct departure airport, get the weather for it and you'd be ready to fly.

What difference does it make when ActiveSky is started? If it changes the wind direction at the departure airport you still need to restart the AI traffic.

First, are you able to sense ANY activity within the menu system of FS9 before anyone actually hits "Fly Now!"? In other words, can you potentially monitor changes going on to say, departure flight data, etc?

The FS menu isn't even created then. Anyway, don't many folks, like me, have FS starting up without that "fly now" interface? Mine boots straight into my default flight. The only time I ever see the initial setup dialogue normally is to get into the Scenery Library options -- and that's only because MS removed them form the World menu.

Second, could you allow Keys to work from there? I could set up say, TAB-A to launch ActiveSky and launch it right from the FS9 menu or are you unable to trap keystrokes at this stage?

If you mean can I trap keys being used in a dialogue, no, that isn't possible. Windows directs them on instruction from the main message loop in FS.

The goofy step of loading AFTER FS9 is setup and then having to either a) check and wait for it to complete its download process or b) toggle the AI on and off, just clearly isn't very optimal or realistic. I keep thinking there has to be a more elegant approach to this.

Well, quite honestly, I really don't see what you are considering goofy. You seem to be making something very complicated out of something very simple. And if its "realism" in your set-up procedures you want, you certainly wouldn't be using that start-up dialogue, would you? You would fly from A to B and have your default flight set to the last saved flight so that next time you loaded your aircraft would be where you left it at B. And so on.

I also don't see what you solve by changing where or when the weather program is started -- when the wind direction is changed, the runways being used by AI Traffic and announced by ATIS will be wrong. How does anything you've said change that?

If FS was even able to allow ActiveSky to set weather before FS is actually running properly, alll that would be immediately negated when you press "fly Now", because that is the moment that the flight you've defined, with the weather you've defined, is executed.

It'd be really swell of Microsoft if they'd allow for third-party control of the weather right from the Weather section of the main menu

Considering that they don't "allow" (or rather, provide for) any sort of third party control over the weather at all, in any shape or form, I would have thought wishing for something even more esoteric was a bit daft. Let's wish for a weather control capability first!

Regards,

Pete

[Agrajag]

What "goofy work-arounds"? I really don't see why you've got such a thing about something so simple.

ActiveSky support is telling me that the other approaches are hit and miss and that I really should be adjusting the Time forward 1 minute. To that I say, "Huh?" Sounds pretty goofy. Anyway, do read on as ActiveSky has also contacted me to tell me that we have indeed tripped over something here that has them looking into potential solutions.

What difference does it make when ActiveSky is started?

From what I'm learning, quite a bit. For example, right now I use FSUIPC to start ActiveSky so it essentially loads before FS9. So there it is sitting there doing nothing but waiting. Nothing really wrong with that. However, as SOON as FS9 sends it data, what it sends is potentially incorrect data as you're likely to change your departure airport and thus, all the looking up it's doing at that moment is a waste of time. If you wait until after you pick your departure airport and then start it, it gets that right on the first shot so there's no delay. I don't need the Traffic Density Toggle because my AI isn't loaded when ActiveSky sets the weather to the correct settings. You need it becuse you're already in the sim on the ground and the AI is already out and about under false information.

If it changes the wind direction at the departure airport you still need to restart the AI traffic.

Correct, but what I'm suggesting is that it won't "change" the wind direction. If it's loaded just after departure airport is selected but before "Fly Now!" is selected then the only wind FS9 sees is the correct wind and that's what it passes to the AI.

The FS menu isn't even created then.

We're talking about two different menus. You're talking about the standard menu that you get to with the ALT key (assuming you fly full screen). I'm talking about the User Interface and I always go to it because I'm constantly changing where I fly out of, what time I'm flying and what plane I'm flying. I never saw much reason to go hopping into the sim only to go about changing all that once in.

Well, quite honestly, I really don't see what you are considering goofy. You seem to be making something very complicated out of something very simple.

The reality for me was that I could make it work flawlessly every single time, without the need to resort to work-arounds, by simply doing things in a very predictable manner. Start FS9. Go to the user interface menu. Select your flight plan and say yes when FS asks to move your plane to the new destination (that's the trigger point). Start ActiveSky. Wait for it to finish. Then click "Fly Now!". Done this way, the weather is always perfect on load as are the runway assignments. I'm just trying to now automate it a a bit.

when the wind direction is changed, the runways being used by AI Traffic and announced by ATIS will be wrong. How does anything you've said change that?

Following the procedure above, there is no wind direction change. It's correct on load. Follow?

[ronzie]

Hi Pete:

I've been in on this discussion over at the Flightsim FS9 forum:

What would really be nice is an option in FSUIPC to pause just the AI portion of the engine at the start of the FS9 engine (which apparently is running with some kind of default flight anyway even while you are in the opening FS9 menu structure as indicated by the FSUIPC log) until a trigger is supplied by the external app (weather program when its initial writes are finished).

In the case of AS2004.5 it does detect the location change and starts its refresh writes but if left in its default start mode it starts writing before to the default location before the selected location is picked causing wrong ATIS and near location wrong AI take-off and landing patterns.

The original poster does not want to use the AS pause on start option and then go back to it to start the weather writes after the starting airport is selected.

It is kind of an addition to the functionality you already have with the key programmable AI toggle which I have already proved corrects the ATIS and AI by toggling it off and then on (reload).

I am just acting as an interpreter here. But the option to start FS9 with the AI portion paused for a kick either by the user (through the existing function) or the external program would be handy.

Damien can take it from there.

[ronzie]

Hi Pete:

I've been in on this discussion over at the Flightsim FS9 forum:

What would really be nice is an option in FSUIPC to pause just the AI portion of the engine at the start of the FS9 engine (which apparently is running with some kind of default flight anyway even while you are in the opening FS9 menu structure as indicated by the FSUIPC log) until a trigger is supplied by the external app (weather program when its initial writes are finished).

In the case of AS2004.5 it does detect the location change and starts its refresh writes but if left in its default start mode it starts writing before to the default location before the selected location is picked causing wrong ATIS and near location wrong AI take-off and landing patterns.

The original poster does not want to use the AS pause on start option and then go back to it to start the weather writes after the starting airport is selected.

It is kind of an addition to the functionality you already have with the key programmable AI toggle which I have already proved corrects the ATIS and AI by toggling it off and then on (reload).

I am just acting as an interpreter here. But the option to start FS9 with the AI portion paused for a kick either by the user (through the existing function) or the external program would be handy.

Damien can take it from there.

[Pete Dowson]

ActiveSky support is telling me that the other approaches are hit and miss and that I really should be adjusting the Time forward 1 minute. To that I say, "Huh?" Sounds pretty goofy.

What's that supposed to accomplish?

... all the looking up it's doing at that moment is a waste of time. If you wait until after you pick your departure airport and then start it, it gets that right on the first shot so there's no delay.

Well, here both FSMeteo and, I think, ActiveSky, take quite a while to set up all the weather stations in your area, so I can't understand why there's no delay. For efficiency and to avoid flicker whilst weather is being set, FSMeteo sets all the nearby weather stations in a "Pending" mode (there aren't executed by FS) and activates them when it has done the main local batch -- so the weather isn't actually correct at your airport till quite a while after you place your aircraft there. The same would apply no matter how you place it initially. I don't know what ActiveSky does, Damian doesn't keep me updated.

I don't need the Traffic Density Toggle because my AI isn't loaded when ActiveSky sets the weather to the correct settings.

Sorry, I don't understand that bit.

but what I'm suggesting is that it won't "change" the wind direction. If it's loaded just after departure airport is selected but before "Fly Now!" is selected

But as I explained (a) it can't do that -- all that initial setup stuff is a dialogue and nothing else is happening, and (b) as soon as you press "Fly Now" the flight you've created is loaded into the simulation engine, overwriting anything that may have been set, if it were possible, in the first place.

We're talking about two different menus. You're talking about the standard menu that you get to with the ALT key (assuming you fly full screen). I'm talking about the User Interface and I always go to it because I'm constantly changing where I fly out of, what time I'm flying and what plane I'm flying.

Right, that's a dialogue not a Windows menu. Terminology, it always gets in the way. :wink:

Almost all the dialogues used in FS are, as in many other programs, "amodal", which means pretty much everything else is stopped whilst you are in them. FSUIPC daren't even start doing anything serious in any case at that time, even if it could, because most of the routines it calls in FS, and most of the memory areas it accesses, aren't even initialised.

Regards,

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

What would really be nice is an option in FSUIPC to pause just the AI portion of the engine at the start of the FS9 engine (which apparently is running with some kind of default flight anyway even while you are in the opening FS9 menu structure as indicated by the FSUIPC log)

I don't think FSUIPC can get a look in there. And what does "pause AI portion of the engine" mean? How?

Regards,

Pete

[JSkorna]

Pete,

1. He is looking to trap AI from loading until all weather is set.

2. Increasing the time in FS one minute forces a reload of AI traffic using new weather conditions.

[Agrajag]

What's that supposed to accomplish? (regarding moving the clock ahead a minute)

Apparently the concensus is that it does the same thing as Traffic Density Toggle but perhaps not everyone has access to that? I don't recall if Keys are and that toggle are available in the unregistered version and, as you know, some people aren't comfortable making changes to FSUIPC so this approach acheives the same objective as Traffic Density Toggle, though not as efficiently.

I don't know what ActiveSky does, Damian doesn't keep me updated.

From what I'm seeing, he populates the weather immediately upon getting the departure airport.

(b) as soon as you press "Fly Now" the flight you've created is loaded into the simulation engine, overwriting anything that may have been set, if it were possible, in the first place.

Pete, that's not accurate according to the results I'm seeing. Before I click "Fly Now!", ActiveSky, given the right amount of time to set up, has populated the correct information into FS9. So, when I click, "Fly Now!" if your theory were correct, I would enter the sim and have incorrect information, but I do not. What I have is up-to-date, correct ActiveSky-populated weather from the instant I arrive. The clouds are all in perfect place. The altimeter is set as it should be. The runways are all assigned correctly. This is because I allowed ActiveSky the time to see the change in my depature airport and re-populate before going into the sim itself. This doesn't happen for you because you don't go into the User Interface. You head right out into the sim from your Desktop. Thus, the information FS9 has at that moment is incorrect and AI starts going the wrong way and ATIS is off. If you would try the steps I laid out you'll see that what I'm saying is accurate and then it begs for some automation.

Right, that's a dialogue not a Windows menu. Terminology, it always gets in the way. :wink:

On that count you couldn't be more right. I defer to you on any such issue as I am definitely not that tuned into FS terminology. In my world it's a menu or user interface so I'll switch over to Dialogue from here on in.

are in them. FSUIPC daren't even start doing anything serious in any case at that time, even if it could, because most of the routines it calls in FS, and most of the memory areas it accesses, aren't even initialised.

Okay, that makes sense. Understand that it is clear that some things are going on and that data IS being passed and, likely, through you as during this time in the dialogue (hey, that flowed right out! ) ActiveSky is getting updates (I assume from you) about the changes I'm making to the departure airport. I'm guessing on that as I'm not sure where ActiveSky is getting its "current location" data from. If it gets it from you, then you are, at that point feeding live changes to it.

Do you understand why I don't need Traffic Density Toggle under my conditions? I don't need to toggle my AI off and on to see "corrected" information because, following my detailed process, my FS9 enters the sim (after the dialogue) with 100% accurate information. Toggling the AI off and on would just have it all reset on the same exact information. I'm now just trying to find a way to get ActiveSky to make that detailed process a bit less manual. I thought there might be a sneaky hole in the dialogue that you might be able to exploit but it's sounding more like ActiveSky has the better shot at this.

[ronzie]

Location, Location.

What happens for me loading a saved flight as a clear weather theme parked cold and dark is that when I go to AS (set paused on start until refresh) and refresh to start the weather writes I go back to FS to set things up in avionics, etc. Before the weather writes complete, AI is already taxiing to the clear weather runways for TO and are in the pattern navigating to them (about fifteen minutes worth of AI as I understand it). I also get the wrong ATIS which takes quite a while to change. (It is interesting to note that RC gives me the correct ATIS almost immediately which means to me perhaps FS delays implementing the changes to acommodate AI flights in progress.)

As discussed in another thread, toggling AI off then on (with the FSUIPC button assignment) immediately updates the AI pattern (as evidenced on a TCAS gauge) and FS ATIS then matches the weather.

So what I am asking for is an FSUIPC option that on FS startup toggles the AI off without user activating it so AI does not establish on the "incorrect" weather environment. Then AS at the completion of weather writes could send the equivalent of a toggle to load the AI. Of course specific function calls dedicated to AI off and AI load would avoid the complications of checking the state of a toggle to what state it is in. The other option is to allow the specific AI off function to be called on the initial refresh where the external program starts the weather writes and then executes a function call to load it at the completion of those writes. On my W98SE 2.53 GHz PC, it takes about two minutes to write all the stations in the area of AS's determined local area surrounding the aircraft and a minute or so for the FS weather to show the change.

It just "automates" what I am manually accomplishing thanks to FSUIPCs toggle AI function.

No big deal. Just a feature idea for any external weather program control to polish things up.

Thanks for your comments.

[Pete Dowson]

1. He is looking to trap AI from loading until all weather is set.

But what does that save? Toggling it off is an instantaneous process, almost. It is re-enabling it that takes a little time and shows a progress bar.

2. Increasing the time in FS one minute forces a reload of AI traffic using new weather conditions.

Yes, but toggling the AI traffic seems to be a more sanitory solution, does it not?

Either way, both can be accomplished automatically by ActiveSky if it so wishes.

Regards,

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

Pete, that's not accurate according to the results I'm seeing. Before I click "Fly Now!", ActiveSky, given the right amount of time to set up, has populated the correct information into FS9.

Really? That's absolutely amazing! FSUIPC is supposed to be deliberately sleeping then. In fact, it almost will be -- it certainly doesn't get any frame rate calls, which it relies upon for nearly everything.

So, when I click, "Fly Now!" if your theory were correct, I would enter the sim and have incorrect information, but I do not. What I have is up-to-date, correct ActiveSky-populated weather from the instant I arrive. The clouds are all in perfect place. The altimeter is set as it should be. The runways are all assigned correctly.

Marvellous! So you've solved it! What's the problem that started all this then?

Regards

Pete

[Agrajag]

Marvellous! So you've solved it! What's the problem that started all this then?

It's a pain in the butt, is the problem.

It's this big long delay process. I have to ALT-TAB out and sit there staring at ActiveSky to make sure it's done before I go into the sim.

What I was hoping is that since it's now clear that FSUIPC is, at least in part, active during this process, I was hoping there'd be enough of a hole that would allow a hotkey through to trigger loading ActiveSky ONLY after I've gotten the environment right. That way, when it does load, it only sees the right variables and doesn't waste a LOT of time populating based on the previous (and possibly incorrect) information.

By the way, Traffic Density Toggle isn't a cure-all either. Even with it, you MUST be sure the ATIS info is correct before doing it or else you're likely to do it before ActiveSky is finished which then defeats the whole purpose of doing it.

This is why I nearly held off on buying ActiveSky. Many similar utilities, like Radar Contact, for example, often require all these extra steps in order to get them all operating effectively and that, for me, often keeps me from continuing use of them past the initial interest stage.

Oh well.

[Pete Dowson]

What I was hoping is that since it's now clear that FSUIPC is, at least in part, active during this process, I was hoping there'd be enough of a hole that would allow a hotkey through to trigger loading ActiveSky ONLY after I've gotten the environment right.

Even if FSUIPC is able to process the messages from ActiveSky, I don't think it can see keyboard messages when a dialogue is active. The window class used for FSUIPC's IPC interface is not FS's window class so operates independently. Possibly a button press might be seen -- experiment if you like, program a button to do something in a way you can detect (a bit difficult really, in a dialogue).

If it does work then maybe another class of program loading could be added "RUNONREQUEST" with a new FSUIPC control to action it.

Regards,

Pete

[ronzie]

FWIW I see in the advdisp window a message when the METAR from the refresh is written the text being the METAR. This could satisfy the request of a notice within FS when the initial write has occured. If the window is set to be invisible except when receiving messages this might satisfy the notification request of a completed write.

My question about this whole business is the OP wants FS to startup AS and not have to go to its dialog. But then how do you get the weather into it without working with the dialog unless it is online all the time. AS will start writing the loaded weather data as soon as the location is recognized and as stated it will start rewriting it as the location changes when loading the flight as long as the pause on start is not set. So I do not see a need to trigger AS to start within FS.

Now to clarify the FS startup issue I have it set to go directly to the opening menu. Yet FSUIPC.log still shows the default flight loading (KSEA out of the box) followed by AS weather writes (pause on start not set). As soon as I load the selected flight the log shows the flight loaded and AS restarting its weather writes. So even if starting up in the menu the defaullt flight is running before Fly Now is activated.

Whew.

[Pete Dowson]

Now to clarify the FS startup issue I have it set to go directly to the opening menu. Yet FSUIPC.log still shows the default flight loading (KSEA out of the box) followed by AS weather writes (pause on start not set). As soon as I load the selected flight the log shows the flight loaded and AS restarting its weather writes. So even if starting up in the menu the defaullt flight is running before Fly Now is activated.

All I can think of is that, if I can actually detect the fact that the initial dialogue (also entered by ESCape and ending a flight) is displayed, I set a flag which programs like ActiveSky can read. What they do about it, I don't know.

I must admit I am getting more and more perplexed by the amount of complicated shenanigans that folks (or is it only Agrajag?) seem to want to happen behind the scenes just to do something which seems, to me at least, to be so simple and understandable as it is.

Maybe the ActiveSky scene is different. With FSMeteo, which I still use (I don't have an up-to-date ActiveSky), you need to load it up and have it running and setting weather for quite a while before it is "enacted". I actually like it that way. It is "comfortable". It does that whilst I am pre-flighting, planning the flights, setting up the FMS, and so on. Then a quick toggle of the AI traffic and I'm ready to get my ATIS then have my plan cleared by Clearance/Delivery.

I can consider:

1). A new pair of FSUIPC assignable controls to Run/close a program, with the parameter number giving a reference to its startup line in FSUIPC.INI.

2). A flag to show when the Flight creation/options dialogue is open -- if I can detect this at all.

I really can't think of any other way I can help in fulfilling this (to me) rather odd request.

Regards,

Pete

[Agrajag]

Ronzie, I hadn't thought of being offline.... Once you go broadband you forget that others aren't! I'm online 100% of the time so ActiveSky is always out getting the weather.

Pete, RUNONREQUEST was the idea. With the current Keys setup, I can't think of anything off the top of my head that would work. I wouldn't be surprised if hotkeys sneak by. I've seen that happen in other apps, but I've also seen them end up entirely shut out too. I'll give this some thought.

You'll also have to trust me a bit on the reasoning for all this. If I got it to go as intended, all I'd have to do is start FS9 and everything else would happen seamlessly, which is never a bad idea in my books.

I do understand your thinking of it being odd. You launch FS9 in a different way and use a different tool. Active Sky, even with the toggle, might still result in incorrect runways and such IF you toggle before it's done and there's currently no way to know it's done IF you're in the dialog. Thanks for being open minded about it. Odds are there'll be no need to even do anything. Just thinking aloud right now and asking about for possibilities, not guarantees.

[Pete Dowson]

With the current Keys setup, I can't think of anything off the top of my head that would work. I wouldn't be surprised if hotkeys sneak by. I've seen that happen in other apps, but I've also seen them end up entirely shut out too. I'll give this some thought.

Currently FSUIPC does not use the Windows "hot keys" facility -- that pinches keys from ALL applications, and i really wouldn't want to do that. All FSUIPC does is intercept the key presses arriving at FS's main interceptable window. I can't do that with dialogues, at least not without subclassing them, and that could be a real nightmare sort out which one is which. I think they all have class "FS98CHILD".

A button on your joystick would be easier. Even then I'm pretty sure the button scan rate whilst you are in a dialogude is pretty low, so a quick press could be missed.

Regards

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

Thanks for being open minded about it. Odds are there'll be no need to even do anything.

Well, I've been thinking this through a little more, and I am coming to the conclusion that, in fact, it would be best all done, optionally, in ActiveSky. Here's my reasoning:

1. If FSUIPC has to resort to using the Windows hot key merely to start a program, then it is not really an FSUIPC sort-of function. Any program can reserve a hotkey in Windows. Why FSUIPC?

2. If FSUIPC does have a facility to start a program on request like that, then, unless that program is written specifically to start up invisibly or minimised (as for instance WideClient can, through INI options), then it will take focus and display itself in any case. If FS is in full screen mode then it will probably get minimised as a result! Either way it won't be the hidden start you are wanting.

3. If ActiveSky has a mode where you can start it up (with a normal FSUIPC start, or a batch file start, or any other way, even manually), but where is doesn't actually try to establish the placing of the aircraft nor setting the weather UNTIL told to by a hot key, THEN I think it could all be done the way you say. If it sets and owns the hot key, it can free it up again for normal use as soon at it has started for real. It also doesn't have to gain focus or change your view of the FS screen.

This sounds like quite an easy modification/option for ActiveSky. I don't think it would apply to FSmeteo, which works differently in any case, and I really can't think of anything else it might apply to, so you can understand my reticence in adding the facilities I suggested just for the one program, especially when it could probably do much better itself.

Regards,

Pete

[Agrajag]

Well, I've been thinking this through a little more, and I am coming to the conclusion that, in fact, it would be best all done, optionally, in ActiveSky.

I don't disagree with that. I figured that since you were already in at a low level and if all the BIG assumptions panned out about potential access in a dialogue, then you might be able to do something that would benefit a large number of apps but that didn't really work out.

If FSUIPC has to resort to using the Windows hot key merely to start a program, then it is not really an FSUIPC sort-of function. Any program can reserve a hotkey in Windows. Why FSUIPC?

Well, I just now did a check. I set ActiveSky's Properties (in Windows) to have a shortcut of CTRL+ALT+A and went into FS9's dialog. I then hit the key combination and ActiveSky immediately launched so apparently Microsoft is not trapping everything there. Also that means I now have a large portion of what I wanted now done. I can start ActiveSky on my own right before clicking "Fly Now!" I'd made the assumption previously that they were trapping keys so maybe only you'd be able to sneak in there.

Granted it did grab focus this way so I have to talk with the AS guys to deal with that. Plus you hit the nail on the head. Now that we know a hot key can work. Why not have them provide hot key support to trigger the critical actions?

Thanks for working through the iterations with me. It should be clear now that I do like challenges and tinkering as much as the hobby itself so I enjoy a good lively discussion with informed people even if nothing comes of it.

[Pete Dowson]

Well, I just now did a check. I set ActiveSky's Properties (in Windows) to have a shortcut of CTRL+ALT+A and went into FS9's dialog. I then hit the key combination and ActiveSky immediately launched so apparently Microsoft is not trapping everything there.

Of course not! It doesn't "trap" anything! You evidently misunderstood me. All that happens is than when a program is in an amodal dialogue, all keyboard messages for that program are directed to the dialogue processing procedures, not to the main processing window code (which is where FSUIPC could see them).

FSUIPC does not use any Windows specialised hot key facilities, those which Active Sky evidently uses, for instance, to grab keystrokes no matter what program has focus. If it did it could certainly process keypresses. I did explain this, but you must have missed it. I do not really think it appropriate for FSUIPC to act on anything which may be intended for programs outside FS.

Regards,

Pete

[Agrajag]

You evidently misunderstood me. All that happens is than when a program is in an amodal dialogue, all keyboard messages for that program are directed to the dialogue processing procedures, not to the main processing window code (which is where FSUIPC could see them).

Ah! You're totally right. I misunderstood that. So how does the CTRL-ALT-A get out from the dialogue processing procedure to be interpreted by Windows to trigger the load? Just a friendly pass-through from FS9?

I do not really think it appropriate for FSUIPC to act on anything which may be intended for programs outside FS.

I agree entirely. Now it just comes down to ActiveSky and if they'd be open to looking for a trigger key like this to kick into gear and, hopefully, find a way to yell back when done.

[Pete Dowson]

So how does the CTRL-ALT-A get out from the dialogue processing procedure to be interpreted by Windows to trigger the load? Just a friendly pass-through from FS9?

No. Any program can register a "hot key" with Windows. The hot key mechanism steals the keypress from all programs and passes it to the program who owns it, ignoring all things like keyboard focus and top windows. There's a similar facility in Windows to steal the mouse.

Regards,

Pete