How to Zero Throttle Control?

[Orlaam]

Hi, I have the registered version, however, I'm not sure if I need it to fix this. With the CH Yoke and calibration, the throttle gives me 1% at "idle" and 99% at full forward. It's the same for the Mixture and Prop. What I really want to fix is the throttle not dropping to zero. Some of the planes require NO INPUT when landing or the autobrakes disarm. To combat this, I've had to idle the throttle then press a button I've mapped to F1. Can I get around this so the throttle is where pressing F1 puts in, or will this be different in each plane?

I have no clue how to adjust the setting in FSUIPC, and the manual only confuses me. :?

Thanks,

Chris

[Pete Dowson]

With the CH Yoke and calibration, the throttle gives me 1% at "idle" and 99% at full forward. It's the same for the Mixture and Prop. What I really want to fix is the throttle not dropping to zero.

You need to calibrate with the minimum set whilst your levers are ABOVE the minimum, and the maximum set whilst your levers are BELOW the maximum. Always leave a little "dead" zone (unused part) at either extreme.

If you are calibrating in FSUIPC just follow the steps one by one.

If you are using CH's control manager then I don't know -- see Bob Church's help over on http://www.ch-hangar.com. He has prepared some documentation on setting up the CH quadrant.

If you are mixing the two I think it may get rather complicated, but hopefully Bob's details will help.

I have no clue how to adjust the setting in FSUIPC, and the manual only confuses me. :?

Why is that? Is English not your first tongue? Sorry if so, but the Manual has stood the test of time -- those step-by-step instructions for calibrating have been pretty much the same for five years with very few complaints. If you can point out exactly what "confuses" you maybe I can improve them, but you'll have to be very specific.

Regards,

Pete

[Orlaam]

Okay, I've messed with it and figured it out. I understand the manual, I'm just unclear about a couple things. You have an example of a 2000.cfg file where the settings are 64 and 0 nulls. My FS9cfg is 127 and 1 nulls. I haven't changed them and the calibrations I made just now seem to work fine, so I assume those numbers don't matter?

[peterhayes]

Hi Pete

This correspondent raised some good points and I have raised the following questions with Bob Church and the ones he didn't answer I have posted here to get your opinion. Your manuals are great but what a lot of computer literate people forget is that not all of us have the same understanding of what is written down about quite complex technical matters. This is NOT a criticism but just a statement of how I and other people of similar ilk understand computing. Believe me, I read your manuals from FS2000 onward after advice from Bob Church, over and over again and it can take me 2-3 days to understand what you are trying to say in those manuals, and I went to Wednesbury Boys High School.

Now to the questions:

Should the joystick settings in the fs9.cfg be EXACTLY the same as those settings in the devices.cfg, if not will that "confuse" FSUIPC?

What is the purpose of the settings in a) fs9.cfg and b)devices.cfg? Why do we need both?

Does allocating new settings in FS2004 via Assignments put these new values in the devices.cfg, fs9.cfg or both?

Settings:

In say an axis event, the settings vary and I would like to understand what the values mean?

For example:

AXIS_EVENT-00=AXIS_FUNCTION_SET

AXIS_SCALE=127 (or -127)

AXIS_NULL=1

or

AXIS_EVENT-01=AXIS_FUNCTION_SET

AXIS_SCALE=64

AXIS_NULL=36

My questions here are:

In the AXIS_EVENT_00 number,

Do these numbers ie 00, 01, 02, 03 ,04, 05, 06 have any significance?

Do these numbers have to be in numerical order in the cfg file? Ie 00 before 01 etc?

Do these number have to be in the same order as on the device, eg on the CHTQ we have six basic axes, and usually they are numbered 00 to 05 from left to right. Does the order matter?

Why do we start at 00 and not 01?

In the AXIS_SCALE:

Do the numbers mean anything?

Sometimes we have 127, or -127, or 64, etc.

Are these values significant?

Do they have anything to do with sensitivity settings in FS2004?

Does the minus value indicate that the “reverse box “ is ticked in FS2004?

In the AXIS_NULL:

Do the numbers mean anything?

Sometimes we have 0, or 1, or 36, etc.

Are these values significant?

Do they have anything to do with null settings in FS2004?

Sometimes the values for a particular function are duplicated in the devices.cfg file and you have two different AXIS_EVENT_## numbers assigned to the same function in FS2004. (This is seen in a CH Products devices.cfg for a twin engine set up)

[CH Pro Pedals USB]. Does the double entry affect handling?

AXIS_EVENT_00=AXIS_LEFT_BRAKE_SET

AXIS_SCALE_00=-127

AXIS_NULL_00=36

AXIS_EVENT_01=AXIS_RIGHT_BRAKE_SET

AXIS_SCALE_01=-127

AXIS_NULL_01=36

AXIS_EVENT_02=AXIS_RUDDER_SET

AXIS_SCALE_02=127

AXIS_NULL_02=1

AXIS_EVENT_06=AXIS_RUDDER_SET

AXIS_SCALE_06=127

AXIS_NULL_06=1

BUTTON_DOWN_EVENT_00=

BUTTON_DOWN_EVENT_01=

Any help would be appreciated. When I finally comprehend what offsets are and what they do, will mean that I have finally seen the light!!

PeterH

aka Josiah W

[Pete Dowson]

Okay, I've messed with it and figured it out. I understand the manual, I'm just unclear about a couple things. You have an example of a 2000.cfg file where the settings are 64 and 0 nulls. My FS9cfg is 127 and 1 nulls. I haven't changed them and the calibrations I made just now seem to work fine, so I assume those numbers don't matter?

Unless you are using FS2000 there's no need nor point in messing with or even looking at the FS CFG file for these things. That example was necessary in order to configure some things back then.

The numbers you are referring to are actually set in FS's dialogues -- go to Options - Settings - Controls - Sensitivities. There are two sliders, one for sensitivity (should be at maximum) and another for null zone (should be at minimum). if those are wrong you'll get less resolution and/or range from your levers.

Regards,

Pete

[peterhayes]

Hi Pete

Do you have any answers for my post a couple of days ago?

Many Thanks

PeterH

[Pete Dowson]

Your manuals are great but what a lot of computer literate people forget is that not all of us have the same understanding of what is written down about quite complex technical matters.

This is why I always ask those who say they don't understand to be much more specific, so that the wording in the documentation can be improved. And it has been. The stuff on calibrations was improved a great deal in that way in its first few months, but that was about five years ago, and considerng the number of users the number of folks still not understanding it are very very small and those are the ones who are never explicit.

It is no good people asking me to explain things any better than I have done because I have done my best there given the feedback I've received. What would be the point of repeating here what is in the documentation? The only sensible process is to get to the real reason someone misunderstands and then trying to word that differently.

Quite honestly, users who are computer literate and aircraft literate enough to understand how to use MSFS and fly aircraft with it must be pretty intelligent to start with, so I assume 99% of misunderstandings are simply because my documentation is in English.

Should the joystick settings in the fs9.cfg be EXACTLY the same as those settings in the devices.cfg, if not will that "confuse" FSUIPC?

Why are you looking in FS9.CFG and Devices.cfg? Are you so computer literate you now want to mess in FS's technical files? Why?

Anyway, the answer to your first part is that I haven't a clue and I don't think it is at all relevant, and to the second is that FSUIPC doesn't know and doesn't care anything about any devices, joysticks or CFG files. It is only dealing with FS controls, NOT joystick axes themselves. It is FS's job to deal with its CFG files. It is in FS where you make assignments, set sensitivities, and so on. FSUIPC only sees the controls resulting from all that, it doesn't know or care how they get that way.

What is the purpose of the settings in a) fs9.cfg and b)devices.cfg? Why do we need both?

Does allocating new settings in FS2004 via Assignments put these new values in the devices.cfg, fs9.cfg or both?

I've really no idea. It was simple enough before FS2002. Since then (when FS changed to DirectX for its joystick inputs) everything changed in that area. I never delved into it because it isn't relevant to anything I do. If you wanted to find out you'd need to experiment.

AXIS_SCALE=127 (or -127)

AXIS_NULL=1

I think the SCALE value is set by the Sensitivity slider and the NULL by the null zone slider.

In the AXIS_EVENT_00 number,

Do these numbers ie 00, 01, 02, 03 ,04, 05, 06 have any significance?

I assume they are axis numbers on that device. But which is which I have no idea. I used to know before DirectX came on the scene. To find out more you really need a programming book on DirectInput.

But I cannot imagine what it is you are needing to know this for, unless you are trying to program something?

Do these numbers have to be in numerical order in the cfg file? Ie 00 before 01 etc?

Do these number have to be in the same order as on the device, eg on the CHTQ we have six basic axes, and usually they are numbered 00 to 05 from left to right. Does the order matter?

No idea, sorry. Please see if you can look this stuff up in a book on DirectX.

Why do we start at 00 and not 01?

Programmers count from 0, it is the first number.

Any help would be appreciated. When I finally comprehend what offsets are and what they do, will mean that I have finally seen the light!!

Are you programming then? What's all the earlier stuff about computer literacy?

What does "offsets" have to do with any of the rest of your questions? If you mean "FSUIPC offsets", then the answer to "what they are" is really simple. They are "hexadecimal numbers relating to the positions of values in FS98's GLOBAL.DLL data area -- they are the number of bytes offset from the beginning of that area, offset 0000", The answer to "what they do" is "nothing, they are just numbers". Applications use them just as addresses in reading and writing this "memory" via FSUIPC.

Since FS98 I have maintained the same offsets for values for compatibility in application programs. Before FS2000 they were different for each FS version and so applications had to be modified for each FS version before they would work.

In order to maintain the same offsets and add more as things grew more complex, FSUIPC has to work a bit of magic -- there's really very little such data in FS's GLOBALS.DLL these days. So the memory area implied by these offsets does not exist, it is all smoke and mirrors.

Regards,

Pete

[Bob Church]

Hi Peter (Hayes),

>> This correspondent raised some good points and I have raised the following questions with Bob Church and the ones he didn't answer I have posted here to get your opinion. <<

I thought I'd covered them, my apologies if it wasn't clear. It's really pretty straightforward. The numbering scheme is as Pete says, programmers start with zero, regular folks tend to start with one. You just have to make allowances and understand which system you're involved with.

>> Should the joystick settings in the fs9.cfg be EXACTLY the same as those settings in the devices.cfg, if not will that "confuse" FSUIPC? <<

As I said at the Hangar, my experiments with FS2K2 indicate that the settings in Devices.cfg are the default settings for the types of controllers that FS recognizes. When you go into the the FS Controls Assignments dialog and click "Reset Defaults" for a controller, the joystick-related entries in FS2002.CFG (and I'm presuming FS9.CFG works the same) seem to be cleared entirely and FS works using the settings in Devices.cfg.

If it doesn't have a specific entry for the controller type, then it falls back on the "Generic" sections in Devices.cfg. When you make an assignment using the FS Controls Assignments dialog, that assignment is entered into FS2002.CFG (FS9.CFG) and will override any assignment that was made as a result of the default settings that came from Devices.cfg originally. You should be able to check this yourself by just examining FS9.CFG. If you do, I'd appreciate hearing whether it is operating as I describe for FS9, too. It will save me writing all these "disclaimers". You can add entries to Devices.cfg if you need to. Look at the section names that are there for the format. The name that you use has to match exactly the controller name that appears in the Windows Game Controllers applet. Actually, I find making the settings in Devices.cfg to be easier than the CFG file since you can use any FS command there, see Pete's Controls Documents, FS will never delete Devices.cfg so you can modify the settings and not have to start from scratch if you pick a bad one, and you can always get back to your basic configuration by just hitting "Reset Defaults" for the controller in the FS Controls Assignments dialog.

>> What is the purpose of the settings in a) fs9.cfg and b)devices.cfg? Why do we need both? <<

See the above.

>> Does allocating new settings in FS2004 via Assignments put these new values in the devices.cfg, fs9.cfg or both? <<

As far as I can tell, Devices.cfg is a static file, FS never modifies it. It's just to store a set of default settings for the various controllers.

AXIS_EVENT_00 is the X axis, 01 is the Y axis, 02 is the Z axis, 03 is the XRotation axis, 04 is the YRotation axis, and 05 is the ZRotation axis. I suspect that 06 and 07 are Slider 0 and Slider 1 if they're recognized (the Pro Pedals entry in Devices.cfg that you mention would seem to indicate that they are), but I haven't verified that.

The ordering on the Throttle Quad is slightly different. The X, Y, Z, R, U, V designations used there correspond to X, Y, Z, ZRotation, YRotation, XRotation respectively. Flight Sim doesn't really care which axis you assign to what function, though the swapping of the positions for the XRotation and ZRotation axes does move things around if you just use the defaults. You can simply reassign them in FS to get them to line up if you need to, though, or you can swap the R and V designations in the Control Manager map if you'd rather do it that way. The reason for the swap is historical. In ZRotation is the sensible choice for Rudders, and Windows 2000/Windows XP actually pay attention to those designation. Windows 98 did not pay attention and normally sims just took the 4th axis as being the rudder. Windows 98 will not allow a 5th and 6th axis unless axes 1 through 4 are filled, so the only way to resolve the situation across all the OS versions is to arrange the axes as X, Y, Z, ZRotation, YRotation, XRotation. That gives ZRotation to the later sims that use the descriptors, yet still holds the rudder axis in the 4th position for earlier sims that don't.

>> Do they have anything to do with sensitivity settings in FS2004? <<

Yes, that's all they are. The result of the Sensitivity slider settings in the FS Sensitivity and Null Zone screen.

>> Does the minus value indicate that the reverse box is ticked in FS2004? <<

Yes.

>> In the AXIS_NULL: Do the numbers mean anything? <<

They set the size of the Null Zone. The Null Zone sliders in the FS Sensitivity and Null Zone dialog set them.

>> Sometimes the values for a particular function are duplicated in the devices.cfg file and you have two different AXIS_EVENT_## numbers assigned to the same function in FS2004. (This is seen in a CH Products devices.cfg for a twin engine set up) <<

The duplicate assignment for the pedals is simply historical. Some older ProPedal versions used different axis descriptors for the rudder axis, the new ones use the Z axis. Microsoft is just covering both versions by doubling up on the assignment. Only one will be used since it will never be the case that both axes are present.

Best regards,

- Bob

The StickWorks

http://www.stickworks.com

[peterhayes]

Hi Pete and Bob

Many thanks for the explanation. I have learned from your replies and found them invaluable.

To PeteD; No I am not programming, I was trying understand where FSUIPC picked up its values from when you calibrate the various axes. You do need to know where its picking up the values from for instance if the axes sensitivity is set full right in assignments this is returned as 127 in fs9.cfg then FSUIPC will return a figure of 16,000+ in the calibration, likewise if this figure is 64 then FSUIPC will only show around 8000.

The offsets comment was a joke, I read your forums avidly but when there is a question about offsets I could never understood how you could use them or where you put a particular value. I do now thanks to your explanation.

Thanks again to both of you.

PeterH