FPS hit after installing FSUIPC4...

[jcomm]

Today I purchased & installed FSUIPC4 on FSX.

I needed it for AS6.5, wich I haven't yet installed because I noticed that after installing FSUIPC my FPS dropped between 4 & 6 fps!

I tried it at various pre-saved situations where I was getting 21fps sharp, and the numbers dropped to 14!

I then decided to delete the Modules folder and FSUIPC with it. After starting FSX my frames were back at 21fps!!!

I repeted this process another two times and allways found the same - with FSUIPC active FPS drop significatively!

Help!

[Pete Dowson]

I needed it for AS6.5, wich I haven't yet installed because I noticed that after installing FSUIPC my FPS dropped between 4 & 6 fps!

Changing over from the direct access methods I used in FS2004 and before to using SimConnect, which is an asynchronous interface using, of all things, TCP/IP, I was certainly rather worried about the affect this would have on performance -- not only the frame rate impact, but also the latency (delay between things changing and applications seeing them change, and vice versa for inputs to FS).

However, I have been pleasantly surprised by how well it works, and without measurable impact on the three systems I've tried it on. This has also been confirmed by others during the Beta testing.

Your symptoms do sound suspiciously like another possible effect from third party security software. I've already written up three probably more immediately noticeable effects which have been resported so far and which have been proven to be due to antivirus, firewall or privacy software hooks and settings. Check the latest readme and the "Important" announcement above. Maybe you have discovered another?

With that in mind could you please tell me exactly what security software you have installed, and then see if disabling it, or even (temporarily) uninstalling it, restores your performance?

Regards

Pete

[jcomm]

Pete,

thanks for your prompt reply!

I use AVG, but only start it (including the various processes) when not using FSX. So, when FSX is working noe AVG console as well as no other processes are up and running.

I also use spysweeper, but I close it, although I am not absolutely sure about there being any "hidden" processes still on memory, so, tonight I will uninstall SpySweeper and report back my findings.

Thank you for your patience with so many users questions, and sometimes mayby silly questions whenever a new version of MSFS comes out!

You FSUIPC, and lately Active Sky, are the ** only ** MSFS add-ons I save from version to version and never hesitate re-installing.

I am also sure that the ACES will most certainly release a patch in the future in order to come up with better solutions for interfacing... I miss the "pokes"...

[Pete Dowson]

I also use spysweeper, but I close it, although I am not absolutely sure about there being any "hidden" processes still on memory, so, tonight I will uninstall SpySweeper and report back my findings.

Thanks.

Meanwhile I have been testing here too. On my slower development PC, where I have Norton active both as Antivirus and Firewall, I can see a degradation in FSX performance of atount 20% (15 down to 12 fps, for example). It is hard to jusge because the frame rate varies so much all the time, but that seems like the average.

On a separate, more powerful, PC, with no firewall or antivirus software installed at all, and even with the default WinXP stuff disabled, I am still getting some measurable degradation. Not as much -- maybe 15% or so. The lowest FPS I saw was similar with or without FSUIPC4, but the peaks were certainly less with FSUIPC4 installed. This was certainly more than was noticeable durring Beta phases.

I am quite cooncerned about this, as never in the seven years of FSUIPC have I ever been able to measure any consitent degradation caused by its installation. I don't like it at all. I shall tackle my Microsoft contacts about it, and also look at potential work-arounds. Short of hacking into the FSX code as in previous releases (something I am really loathe to do now), the could look at polling the gauge / panels interface for the more frequently changing values, instead of getting them via Simconnect.

None of this is easy nor quick though. I shall study it and pursue the Microsoft folks about it and see what can be done.

I am also sure that the ACES will most certainly release a patch in the future in order to come up with better solutions for interfacing... I miss the "pokes"...

Hmm. I expect there's too much invested in the current methods. I think the best I can hope for is for the same interface to work more directly from an in-process program like FSUIPC4 (and of course the gauges which will be forthcoming which may also start using SimConnect for the extra data it can provide). Currently I face the same problems as any external Simconnect application would.

Regards

Pete

[BobP]

Hi Peter,

I just want to add to your knowledge base concerning firewall and AV programs affected. I am also seeing a 30 to 40% FPS degradation with FSUIPC 4.02 in FSX as compared without it. I am using Windows Live One Care for AV, Windows Defender (integrated with One Care now) for AS and the windows firewall built into One Care.

Thanks...

System Summary

Dell XPS HT 3.6 P4 (HT off)

2 gig memory

Radeon XT850 Pro 256mb

Catalyst 6.9 with control

[rcbarend]

Hi Pete,

If it helps: I've also done some FPS tests, using V4.02 unregistered but unused by any gauges.

By observing a rather static scenery ( a saved flight with a parked aircraft on a large airport, in Spot view) for a minute after loading.

And repeated the tests several times.

I use: AVG antivirus and ZoneAlarm firewall.

- With FSUIPC and Firewall On: avg. 11.5 fps

- With FSUIPC and Firewall disabled: avg. 12.5 fps

- Without FSUIPC and Firewall On OR disabled: avg. 14 fps

Disabling Antivirus didn't have any effect.

Regards, Rob

PS: measuring FSP is quite cumbersome of course, since it varies a bit continuously, so it remains a bit guessing.

But I had the most stable FPS (13.6 - 14.3) with FSUIPC not installed.

With FSUIPC and Firewall On, I had the lowest "peeks" downwards (sometimes less than 10)

[Pete Dowson]

But I had the most stable FPS (13.6 - 14.3) with FSUIPC not installed.

With FSUIPC and Firewall On, I had the lowest "peeks" downwards (sometimes less than 10)

Yes, I think the TCP/IP usage with SimConnect is causing a typical queuing or bunching effect, like on a crowded motorway.

I've been informed by MS that they are trying to get to the bottom of all these things. Meanwhile, I'm doing some experiments here to see if I can bypass Simconnect at all for some of the more frequently changing and needed variables.

Incidentally, changes to video drivers seem to be able to have a MUCH more dramatic affect on frame rates than any of that stuff. I was using nVidia forceware 91.47 from a few weeks ago. There's now a revised download on the nVidia site (still confusingly called 91.47) which, after installation, has boosted my frame rates by 30-40%. Not only that but they appear to have got SLI working quite well too (it even specifically mentions FSX on the nVidia notes about this revision) -- on my one PC with SLI the frame rates are 50% better and smoother!

I'll press on with whatever optimisation I can though, and hope that MS come up with some solutions.

Best Regards

Pete

[jcomm]

Ok Pete,

today I unistalled SpySweeper and AVG.

I used to kill all AVG processes before starting FS, and to shutdown SpySweeper, but there was a SpySweeper process I couldn't kill.

The result, after wiping SpySweeper from my system was that my FPS were restored, EVEN WHEN AS6.5 is used to feed weather updates via FSUIPC4!!!

So this REALLY MEANS that SimConnect must really be sensible to this type of software...

[Pete Dowson]

The result, after wiping SpySweeper from my system was that my FPS were restored, EVEN WHEN AS6.5 is used to feed weather updates via FSUIPC4!!!

Good. Thanks for letting me know.

Meanwhile I have streamlined a few internal parts of FSUIPC4, I hope without messing anything up. It may or may not help a little -- here, where I had about a 15% drop using FSUIPC4 I get hardly any difference, just slightly more variation.

After some more testing I'll probably release it as 4.03, certainly this week, maybe before the weekend this time.

So this REALLY MEANS that SimConnect must really be sensible to this type of software...

I know MS are working on it, at least to find the more serious problems like lack of Add-Ons menu and so on. I hope they will be able to address the perfomance issues too, but I won't be holding my breath on that!

Regards

Pete

[hladamjr]

Peter

Here's how to dispay your current FPS AND Average FPS in FSX

In your FSX.CFG file that is in your Documents and Settings \Application Data\Microsoft\FSX uou can add a setting to display average FPS in addition or instead of your current FPS. Migh help in diagnosing things.

The following TEXT INFO sections can be used to customize your SHIFT-Z text experience.

Valid entries are…

Latitude

Longitude

Altitude

Heading

AirSpeed

WindDirectionAndSpeed

FrameRate

AverageFrameRate

LockedFrameRate

GForce

FuelPercentage

It is formatted as…

Entry=Line Number, Position Number

Latitude 2,3

Will put the latitude entry on the second line, third from the left.

Hope that Helps

[Pete Dowson]

Here's how to dispay your current FPS AND Average FPS in FSX

Rightthanks!

Has anyone reading this found better frame rates with the interim version 4.022 I posted above? I only streamlined some of the data requests I weas making to SimConnect, but it seems to have lessened the impact of having FSUIPC4 installed measurably here.

Regards

Pete

[quantumleap]

Has anyone reading this found better frame rates with the interim version 4.022 I posted above?

Firstly thanks for the update and please do not let the "why FSUIPC?" minority attempt to diminish what I, MS (shown by the MVP designation), and I'm sure many other in the silent majority see, is your significant contribution to the flightsim community now and through the years.

In my tests last night with 4.022 I did not see any obvious improvement in frame rates between it and 4.02. I was still seeing the 15-20% drop you saw in your own original tests.

Regards,

Jeff

[Pete Dowson]

In my tests last night with 4.022 I did not see any obvious improvement in frame rates between it and 4.02. I was still seeing the 10-15% drop you saw in your own original tests.

Hmmm. Shame. It was quite a few hours work. I suppose it depends on many factors, though. Apart from rewriting quite large chunks of it to bypass SimConnect and either go direct to the PANELS interface (like gauges), or actually hack the values out of FS as in previous versions (ugh), I'm afraid I can't see anything else that can be done -- excepting of course hoping that Microsoft can make some improvements.

Personally I don't see why SimConnect couldn't provide a "fast track" route for clients which are internal to FS's own process -- DLLs and Gauges -- as it seems such a big waste of space and time going through TCP/IP stacks. I'll try to press this argument when they've got some way towards solving the security problems we've already hit and reported.

Regards,

Pete