SimConnect, FSX and GoFlight

[Ray Proudfoot]

Hi Pete,

I know you're still on holiday but I wanted to post this asap in case anyone else has problems with GoFlight modules in FSX.

On Saturday I bought and installed ASX on my laptop. I had a lot of problems getting it to talk to my FSX PC but eventually I got the two working.

However, during those few hours I happened upon this locked topic http://forums.simflight.com/viewtopic.php?t=58095 in which you advise deleting a folder in WinSxS.

Unfortunately deleting this folder caused the GoFlight GFDexFSX.EXE to fail to run when I started FSX. I only found the reason after receiving a reply from someone who did have ASX installed on his PC and who had GoFlight modules.

Despite having other FlightSimulator folders in WinSxS it seems the GoFlight program requires that specific folder to exist. I have been in touch with their tech support and I'm awaiting their response.

I'm sure you wouldn't have advised deleting this folder unless you had good reason to but I just wanted to advise you and others it could cause problems with GoFlght software.

Cheers.

[BAW019]

Did you run the repair before running FSX?

After you delete that folder you need to use the install disc to repair FSX which will re-create the folder and (with any luck) do it right this time.

I've done this myself and am happy to report FSX and GoFlight work fine.

Ian

[Ray Proudfoot]

Yes, I did but I also had to install the SP1 version of simconnect.dll from the SDK.

But if running the repair just recreates the original folder what is the point? I don't doubt it worked for you but it didn't for me.

I should add that although I had one reply from GoFlight support pointing me to Pete's locked topic suggesting that folder be deleted they never came back to me when I said that the non-existence of that folder was the cause of all my problems. I find their lack of any further response veru disappointing given they don't respond whatsoever in their own forums.

[BAW019]

It's more to do with what Windows does to recognise that particular folder. Not too sure what that is but there's more to it than just re-creating it when you run setup. Anyway give it another try!

As for GoFlight customer support, good luck. They really don't care.

Ian

[Ray Proudfoot]

Ian,

Why do I need to run it again when I have everything working? I thought I made that clear in my original message.

Leave well alone is my motto! :D

It seems to me that GoFlight need that folder to have a specific name for their GFDEVFSX.EXE to work. If it's named anything else their program fails.

And because of their abysmal support I don't know if they intend fixing that issue.

[Ray Proudfoot]

Just to bring everyone up to date on the original problem. I received a reply from GoFlight support pointing me to Pete's locked topic on deleting the folder in WinSxS.

When I later pointed out to them that deleting this folder was the cause of the problem I never heard back from them despite sending a second message a couple of days later.

GoFlight might excel in certain areas. Technical support isn't one of them. :roll:

[Pete Dowson]

But if running the repair just recreates the original folder what is the point? I don't doubt it worked for you but it didn't for me.

The repair doesn't merely recreate the folder, it sets up all the other settings in the registry to make the contents of that folder work. The reason for deleting the folder is that the repair doesn't do anything if it is there as it thinks it must be okay!

I'm not sure why you were trying the SimConnect repair solution just to get an EXE automatically loaded -- that's part of the EXE.XML file (in the same folder as the FSX.CFG). Doesn't GoFlight's installer see to that? Did you try to do a GoFlight re-install?

Regards

Pete

[Ray Proudfoot]

Hi Pete,

Welcome back! Hope you had a nice time.

I ran the repair amongst a multitude of other things over several hours and that also included reinstalling the GoFlight software several times. I was just about at my wits end. Nothing would convince that exe to run.

The posted solution was the only way I could get the GF program to run.

During all this I did become quite familiar with how those XML files work. I have no idea why the repair didn't work for me. Maybe a reinstall of FSX might have done it but that was something I couldn't face.

[Pete Dowson]

The posted solution was the only way I could get the GF program to run.

And what was the posted solution, please? This thread seems to indicate you still have problems? What was the reason for the GoFlight stuff not working which you identified and fixed?

Note that if the base SimConnect WinSxS folder is deleted and not repaired then FSUIPC won't run either -- it needs the base SimConnect (the one from the DVD) to get loaded. It can run with or without the SP1 updated SimConnect -- it just provides slightly lesser facilities and performance.

During all this I did become quite familiar with how those XML files work. I have no idea why the repair didn't work for me. Maybe a reinstall of FSX might have done it but that was something I couldn't face.

I don't know of any case where FSX needs reinstalling, and reinstalling doesn't create or mess with DLL.XML or EXE.XML files -- they are both up to installers to handle, or users under instructions (as, for instance, in the case of MyTrafficX).

Regards

Pete

[Ray Proudfoot]

The posted solution was the only way I could get the GF program to run.

And what was the posted solution, please? This thread seems to indicate you still have problems? What was the reason for the GoFlight stuff not working which you identified and fixed?

I posted the problem in the FSX forum. Here it is http://forums.simflight.com/viewtopic.php?t=62929. Tim's second reply gave me the vital information relating to the WinSxS folder name which the GoFlight program seems to need. The problem was solved last Monday. The folder apparently needed by the GF program is C:\WINDOWS\WinSxS\x86_Microsoft.FlightSimulator.SimConnect_67c7c14424d61b5b_10.0.60905.0_x-ww_429211e9

Note that if the base SimConnect WinSxS folder is deleted and not repaired then FSUIPC won't run either -- it needs the base SimConnect (the one from the DVD) to get loaded. It can run with or without the SP1 updated SimConnect -- it just provides slightly lesser facilities and performance.

FSUIPC certainly runs but how would I know if it's running at full efficiency? Whilst I had to name that WinSxS folder with a specific name I placed the most recent SimConnect.dll in it. I don't have that PC running at present so can't quote you the version number but from memory it was from the SDK SP1.

I don't know of any case where FSX needs reinstalling, and reinstalling doesn't create or mess with DLL.XML or EXE.XML files -- they are both up to installers to handle, or users under instructions (as, for instance, in the case of MyTrafficX).

I only mentioned a reinstall as it seemed to be the only option left. When I was installing ASX I didn't initially find the detailed installation instructions for loading on a different PC to FSX. When I did find them there were references to both EXE.XML and SimConnect.xml and I had neither in the specified folders on the FSX PC.

What I did have was that specifically named folder containing an older simconnect.dll. When I encountered problems trying to get ASX to talk to FSX I scoured the web and found the posted topic on your forum advising to delete that folder.

I deleted it and then went through the remaining ASX instructions and on completing them I was finally able to get ASX working. But whilst doing this I'd messed GF up. It was only by asking around and getting Tim's second reply I fathomed out what was causing the problem.

Now whether any of this is right or wrong I really couldn't say but as I have both ASX talking to FSX and my GF software works I'm happy.

Cheers.

[Pete Dowson]

The folder apparently needed by the GF program is C:\WINDOWS\WinSxS\x86_Microsoft.FlightSimulator.SimConnect_67c7c14424d61b5b_10.0.60905.0_x-ww_429211e9

Yes, that is where the original base edition of SimConnect.DLL is stored, and it is that which should be repaired by using the repair from the original DVDs. The "FSX Help" announcement above, which you insist on calling my "locked post" (most Announcements are locked) is exactly about this.

Without that the base version of SimConnect FSUIPC will not load either.

FSUIPC certainly runs but how would I know if it's running at full efficiency?

The FSUIPC log will show what version of SimConnect it is actually using. It is quite specific, actually identifying the SP1 version as SP1 May07.

Whilst I had to name that WinSxS folder with a specific name I placed the most recent SimConnect.dll in it.

Ouch! You have the SP1 DLL installed in the folder for the base SimConnect (60905)? The SP1 DLL (61242) will be in its own folder if SP1 is installed correctly, namely:

C:\WINDOWS\WinSxS\x86_Microsoft.FlightSimulator.SimConnect_67c7c14424d61b5b_10.0.61242.0_x-ww_35e8ee9a

You should have both folders, each with their own SimConnect inside. But you should never have to create them manually. Repairing from the DVD will not only create the missing folder and contents but also tie it correctly into the Side-by-Side system (SxS). For the SP1 version you'd need to run the SimConnect.msi from the SDK.

From what you are saying you have got the SimConnect system into a bit of a mess. May I ask how you got into this state in the first place? If FSUIPC and other SimConnect programs were running okay, SimConnect was obviously fine. Why mess it about so much?

I only mentioned a reinstall as it seemed to be the only option left.

The trouble with a reinstall is that it still doesn't fix the SimConnect issues unless you also delete the relevant WinSxS folders, same as for a repair. On Vista it is actually not easy (read "almost impossible") to ever uninstall anything installed as SxS.

When I was installing ASX I didn't initially find the detailed installation instructions for loading on a different PC to FSX. When I did find them there were references to both EXE.XML and SimConnect.xml and I had neither in the specified folders on the FSX PC.

No, you wouldn't. The EXE.XML most certainly is not needed at all for ASX -- all that does is get SimConnect to automatically load EXE programs, just to save you doing it (you could equally well use FSUIPC's facilities for running programs). I have ASX running and do not use any EXE.XML so I am rather surprised it mentions it.

It sounds like that is only for loading the GoFlight EXE.

The SimConnect.xml file is needed for running a remote SimConnect connection, but equally it can thereby stop the local connection -- that is the usual problem. Folks change "local" to "global" and this actually loses the local connection (stopping FSUIPC and GoFlight). Reinstalling FSUIPC4 normally fixes that as the installer I provide actually checks for this and tries to fix the SimConnect.XML file.

What I did have was that specifically named folder containing an older simconnect.dll.

But it should do. The newer version of SimConnect.dll goes into its own, newer, folder.

None of that stuff is designed for human messing. It should be done by installers or repairers. I really don't know what the longer-term consequences of the mess yours in now in will be, I'm afraid.

When I encountered problems trying to get ASX to talk to FSX I scoured the web and found the posted topic on your forum advising to delete that folder.

There is NO topic on my Forum which tells you to do that on its own, it is the first step in a repair process. Why would you take one step of a procedure and ignore the rest -- both are essential!

And in any case there were no indications that the SimConnect system was in a mess. All you needed to do was find out how to enable to remote connection, and the ASX instructions should certainly have told you this.

I deleted it and then went through the remaining ASX instructions and on completing them I was finally able to get ASX working. But whilst doing this I'd messed GF up.

But that should have messed all local SimConnect programs up as well, including FSUIPC4. The only thing which would have stopped GF loading whilst still allowing FSUIPC to work is the missing or incorrect EXE.XML file.

Now whether any of this is right or wrong I really couldn't say but as I have both ASX talking to FSX and my GF software works I'm happy.

Well, I wish you well, but this is most certainly not a good example to post as a fix for anything, as you now appear to have 61242 SimConnect (from SP1) masquerading as 60905 SimConnect (the base version), even though both are supposed to be installed and usable side-by-side. I really think this will cause problems if any further FSX updates appear that you want, and it may cause problems with other add-ons. It may even be that FSUIPC, amongst others, is currently running with the original base restrictions, not the improvements offered by SP1. A look at the FSUIPC4.LOG will tell you one way or the other.

In other words, I would seriously recommend that you fix the SimConnect installation. not by taking only the first step, but following up with the repair -- i.e. deleting any WinSxS folder mentioning SimConnect (one or two), running repair from the DVD (or the SimConnect.msi from it, if you can get to it), and then running the SimConnect.msi from the SP1 SDK. That should get you two correct folders, correctly tied up, and each with their own, correct version of SimConnect installed.

Best Regards

Pete

[Ray Proudfoot]

Hi Pete,

The folder apparently needed by the GF program is C:\WINDOWS\WinSxS\x86_Microsoft.FlightSimulator.SimConnect_67c7c14424d61b5b_10.0.60905.0_x-ww_429211e9

Yes, that is where the original base edition of SimConnect.DLL is stored, and it is that which should be repaired by using the repair from the original DVDs. The "FSX Help" announcement above, which you insist on calling my "locked post" (most Announcements are locked) is exactly about this.

Without that the base version of SimConnect FSUIPC will not load either.

Ah, so I need two instances of simconnect. The original plus a later one. I was under the mistaken impression only one would suffice. I'll run the repair option from the DVD.

The FSUIPC log will show what version of SimConnect it is actually using. It is quite specific, actually identifying the SP1 version as SP1 May07.

I'll check the version prior to running the repair - just for info.

Ouch! You have the SP1 DLL installed in the folder for the base SimConnect (60905)? The SP1 DLL (61242) will be in its own folder if SP1 is installed correctly, namely:

C:\WINDOWS\WinSxS\x86_Microsoft.FlightSimulator.SimConnect_67c7c14424d61b5b_10.0.61242.0_x-ww_35e8ee9a

You should have both folders, each with their own SimConnect inside. But you should never have to create them manually. Repairing from the DVD will not only create the missing folder and contents but also tie it correctly into the Side-by-Side system (SxS). For the SP1 version you'd need to run the SimConnect.msi from the SDK.

Okay, understood. You have to remember that whilst you're an expert on all this I am most certainly not. I did what I did because it was the only way I could get the GoFlight program running. I knew nothing at al about simconnect and xml files before all this!

From what you are saying you have got the SimConnect system into a bit of a mess. May I ask how you got into this state in the first place? If FSUIPC and other SimConnect programs were running okay, SimConnect was obviously fine. Why mess it about so much?

It was running fine prior to the installation of the simconnect and exe xml files. It was only the creation of those (perhaps by the GoFlight setup) that caused that initialisation problem with GFDEVFSX.EXE. I don't knowingly create problems for myself.:wink:

The SimConnect.xml file is needed for running a remote SimConnect connection, but equally it can thereby stop the local connection -- that is the usual problem. Folks change "local" to "global" and this actually loses the local connection (stopping FSUIPC and GoFlight). Reinstalling FSUIPC4 normally fixes that as the installer I provide actually checks for this and tries to fix the SimConnect.XML file.

My simconnect.xml has both local and global sections.

There is NO topic on my Forum which tells you to do that on its own, it is the first step in a repair process. Why would you take one step of a procedure and ignore the rest -- both are essential!

But I did run the repair. I didn't cherry-pick the instructions.

And in any case there were no indications that the SimConnect system was in a mess. All you needed to do was find out how to enable to remote connection, and the ASX instructions should certainly have told you this.

You're speaking from a position of someone who knows the system inside out. I didn't and still don't but I do now have a better understanding of how it works.

In other words, I would seriously recommend that you fix the SimConnect installation. not by taking only the first step, but following up with the repair -- i.e. deleting any WinSxS folder mentioning SimConnect (one or two), running repair from the DVD (or the SimConnect.msi from it, if you can get to it), and then running the SimConnect.msi from the SP1 SDK. That should get you two correct folders, correctly tied up, and each with their own, correct version of SimConnect installed.

Okay, I'll do that and report back. Thanks for the background. I had no idea it was so complicated. Why can't we have just one instance of simconnect.dll? :roll:

Cheers.

Ray.

[Pete Dowson]

But I did run the repair. I didn't cherry-pick the instructions.

I had no idea it was so complicated.

It's not complicated to ordinary users who never need to know what is going on in the background. The most complex parts for add-on installation is getting those XML files correct, and really installer programs should do all that. This is why FSUIPC has, for the first time, got an installer. I've never made an installer for any of my add-ons before!

I suspect the remote use of ASX has got slightly less attention in this respect as it would be seen as a minority interest, and the publishers hoped that the written instructions would suffice. Having looked at them I must say they seem clear enough. Maybe yours was a case of leaping in too quickly and not reading enough first?

Also I suspect many add-on publishers are feeling their way here a bit, as it is all new for us all. I would expect installers and such to improve with time and feedback, such as your own.

Why can't we have just one instance of simconnect.dll?

Because the two are different. Microsoft invented the Side-by-Side installation system so that their updates (to Windows, FS, or any system including add-ons) don't cause application compatibility problems as facilities change and evolve.

The old method for ensuring compatibility was to always support all the old things whilst adding new ones. This grows into a right Royal mess as changes occur, and this is good for nobody, being inefficient, confusing, and very costly to maintain. With the Side-by-Side library system, old programs will still work as they use the older library, whilst newer ones, or later versions, will use the new one, and so on.

FSUIPC4 actively checks the SimConnect versions available, and uses the latest one it recognises (SP1 at present). But it will still work when SP2 comes out, even without me changing anything, as it will still use the SP1 version. However, to actually get itself loaded -- and thus in a position where it can check versions -- it needs the Base version to also be there, as this is the only one always guaranteed.

I hope this is clear. In summary, the side-by-side system is good as is provides ongoing compatibility in a most efficient manner without restricting changes for the better in future updates and versions. It's a way of having your cake and eating it. ;-)

Regards

Pete

[Ray Proudfoot]

But I did run the repair. I didn't cherry-pick the instructions.

I had no idea it was so complicated.

It's not complicated to ordinary users who never need to know what is going on in the background. The most complex parts for add-on installation is getting those XML files correct, and really installer programs should do all that. This is why FSUIPC has, for the first time, got an installer. I've never made an installer for any of my add-ons before!

Well I suspect most 'ordinary users' don't have GoFlight hardware. Up to your post last night I didn't even know FSUIPC even talked to simconnect or the installer created those xml files.

I suspect the remote use of ASX has got slightly less attention in this respect as it would be seen as a minority interest, and the publishers hoped that the written instructions would suffice. Having looked at them I must say they seem clear enough. Maybe yours was a case of leaping in too quickly and not reading enough first?

I wouldn't have thought running FS-related apps on a networked PC was unusual. More and more people have networked setups these days and running ASX, Radar Contact etc. on a separate PC is quite widespread I would guess.

Also I suspect many add-on publishers are feeling their way here a bit, as it is all new for us all. I would expect installers and such to improve with time and feedback, such as your own.

Couldn't agree more!

Why can't we have just one instance of simconnect.dll?

Because the two are different. Microsoft invented the Side-by-Side installation system so that their updates (to Windows, FS, or any system including add-ons) don't cause application compatibility problems as facilities change and evolve.

The old method for ensuring compatibility was to always support all the old things whilst adding new ones. This grows into a right Royal mess as changes occur, and this is good for nobody, being inefficient, confusing, and very costly to maintain. With the Side-by-Side library system, old programs will still work as they use the older library, whilst newer ones, or later versions, will use the new one, and so on.

FSUIPC4 actively checks the SimConnect versions available, and uses the latest one it recognises (SP1 at present). But it will still work when SP2 comes out, even without me changing anything, as it will still use the SP1 version. However, to actually get itself loaded -- and thus in a position where it can check versions -- it needs the Base version to also be there, as this is the only one always guaranteed.

I hope this is clear. In summary, the side-by-side system is good as is provides ongoing compatibility in a most efficient manner without restricting changes for the better in future updates and versions. It's a way of having your cake and eating it. ;-)

That makes perfect sense. Thanks Pete. I hadn't realised this until you described it all. I'm currently runing the repair utility on the FSX DVD. I checked a couple of things before I started. Ihave two FlightSimulator folders in WinSxS. Both contain the same version of simconnect.dll - 10.0.61355.0. That, I'm guessing, is not good. I had a look at the two logs for FSUIPC and it's installer. I'm attaching for info. Any comments?

More to follow later :D

Cheers,

Ray.

RayLogs.zip

[Ray Proudfoot]

Hi again Pete,

I've deleted the two SimConnect folders in WinSxS, run the repair option and the SimConnect.msi in the following folder:

C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X SDK\Core Utilities Kit\SimConnect SDK\lib

I now have two SimConnect folders in WinSxS. Partial names are 60905 which contains 10.0.60905.0 and in 61242 I have 10.0.61355.

I have also run SimConnect.msi on my laptop where ASX is installed.

ASX and GoFlight are talking to one another fine. Do you need to see any logs to confirm all is well?

Cheers,

Ray.

[Pete Dowson]

I now have two SimConnect folders in WinSxS. Partial names are 60905 which contains 10.0.60905.0 and in 61242 I have 10.0.61355.

Good.

ASX and GoFlight are talking to one another fine.

They talk to each other? Odd. Don't you mean they both happily talk to FSX? ;-)

Do you need to see any logs to confirm all is well?

No. From the last logs you posted, these are the salient bits:

From the Installer (which worked fine, but was done on 16th June, presumably before this mess?):

Checking compatibility with installed SimConnect:

... Okay, Probe Manifest matches installed SimConnect 60905 (Original)

Found later build SimConnect 61242 (SP1 May07)

also, interestingly, it did have to correct your Simconnect.xml file:

Now checking for a SimConnect.XML file ...

... There is a SimConnect.XML, checking for "local" section.

No previous "local" entry found, so adding it now ...

... "local" section of SimConnect.XML written okay

From the FSUIPC4 log:

Running inside FSX (SimConnect SP1 May07)

and

14859 Running in "Microsoft Flight Simulator X", Version: 10.0.61355.0 (SimConnect: 10.0.61242.0)

Regards

Pete

[Ray Proudfoot]

I now have two SimConnect folders in WinSxS. Partial names are 60905 which contains 10.0.60905.0 and in 61242 I have 10.0.61355.

Good.

Marvellous!

ASX and GoFlight are talking to one another fine.

They talk to each other? Odd. Don't you mean they both happily talk to FSX? ;-)

Yes. I don't know my ASX from my FSX!:lol:

Do you need to see any logs to confirm all is well?

No. From the last logs you posted, these are the salient bits:

From the Installer (which worked fine, but was done on 16th June, presumably before this mess?):

That was the day I bought ASX and started all of this. Without a time it's difficult to know what was done when but given my WinSxS folders are okay and ASX and GoFlight work with FSX I think I can draw a line under this.

Thanks for the lesson on SimConnect. As you may have gathered I'm on leave this week and next. Are you open for visitors?

Regards,

Ray.

[Pete Dowson]

As you may have gathered I'm on leave this week and next.

Of course. Wimbledon. ;-)

Are you open for visitors?

Yes, of course. Is this for when it rains at Wimbledon, or can you bear to miss some? ;-)

Give me a ring.

Best

Pete