Question about Flaps Axis

[pap]

Hello to all

I was working with the new (since Ver 3.777) offsets 3416 and 3418 as "copytarget" of 0BC4 and 0BC6 if the Brake axis are disconnectet. They work prety fine for me.

I want to ask if there is a posibillity to disconnect the Axis for the flaps too, just working in the same way as the brake axis?

If this will be possible, a way to simulate "alternate Flaps" with very long extendig time is opend.

Thanks for help

Peter

Austria

[Pete Dowson]

I want to ask if there is a posibillity to disconnect the Axis for the flaps too, just working in the same way as the brake axis? If this will be possible, a way to simulate "alternate Flaps" with very long extendig time is opend.

Hmm. Yes, it would be possible, but I am rather overloaded at present. I will add it to my list. Look out for it in some future versionbut it may be a few weeks. Sorry.

Pete

[pap]

Thanks a lot

I am looking forward!

Peter

[Pete Dowson]

I am looking forward!

I have implemented both Flaps and spoiler axes disconnection facilities in an interim version of FSUIPC (and FSUIPC4), but I have not had time to test them properly. If you would like to download the updates and try them, letting me know, I'd be grateful. Thanks.

These are the links:

http://fsuipc.simflight.com/beta/FSUIPC4221.zip

http://fsuipc.simflight.com/beta/FSUIPC3781.zip

The implementation details are:

The facilities to intercept axes so that they can be applied through external algorithms (such as fly-by-wire) are extended further to include the Flaps (AXIS_FLAPS_SET) and the Spoilers axis (AXIS_SPOILERS_SET). For these there are additions to offset 341A and two new offsets as follows:

341A 1 byte Additional axis inhibit flags:

2^2 = Flaps

2^3= Spoilers

This byte is cleared after about 10 seconds to safeguard axis operation against a crashed application. To sustain the interception, therefore, the value needs to be refreshed every few seconds.

3412 2 bytes Spoiler axis input value. Copy this to 0BD0 for normal brake action

3414 2 bytes Flaps axis input value. Copy this to 0BDC for normal flaps action

Hope this is clear enough.

Regards

Pete

[pap]

Hit Pete!

Thanks a lot for your quick work.

I tried this the last hour, the disconnection works, but I think I didnt check 2 things:

First If I write 3 (means Bit 0 and Bit 1) set for Brake diconnection to 341A, the Axis for Flaps and spoilers are disconnected too.

This isnt a big problem, I disconnact all 4 axis, and copy them for myself (all 4 of them)

But in the Flap axis, the Offset 3414 seems to be the raw data (from -16k to +16k) and the target position 0BDC seems to be the

FS Data (from 0 to +16 k). Also I dont know the correlation to the FSUIP calibration (to notches).

So the straight forward copy (needed because all axis are disconnected if I write anything to 341A is not working for the Flaps.

If disconnection works, I think the other Copy releated problem is not a problem, I can write fixed values to 0BDC.

Thanks a lot again

Peter

Austria

PS: transfered this to your Forum

[Pete Dowson]

If I write 3 (means Bit 0 and Bit 1) set for Brake diconnection to 341A, the Axis for Flaps and spoilers are disconnected too.

What? I don't see how that is possible -- the bits are individually tested in every place they are affected.

[LATER]

Aha! Yes. Sorry, found it. A silly typo in one new line of code. I'll fix that.

But in the Flap axis, the Offset 3414 seems to be the raw data (from -16k to +16k) and the target position 0BDC seems to be the FS Data (from 0 to +16 k).

Ah, yes, that is certainly true. In actual fact in all 4 cases the source data is the raw input. So, for instance. That is where they are being intercepted, before going through calibration.

Hmm. That is a bit more of a problem. All 4 will have to be re-thought, otherwise it becomes the job of the program which is intercepting them to do their own "calibration".

Also I dont know the correlation to the FSUIP calibration (to notches).

Well, you can work it out of course as FSUIPC has to do. But this is just another result of the input date being raw, not calibrated.

I'll have to think about whether to and how to re-design the whole facility here. The similar one for the control axes was designed deliberately to by-pass my calibration, as it is used for "fly-by-wire" where the controlling program wants direct control over the end values, not a "simple" interference.

I assume your use is different. You aren't after direct control, where you are deciding exactly what brake, flap or spoiler values to use, but simply want to reduce or change the actual values which would have been applied?

Maybe before I change anything at all we ought to have a longer discussion? My first inclination is to put the "raw" value through my calibration routine before providing it in the 34xx offsets. Would that be best?

Regards

Pete

[pap]

Aha! Yes. Sorry, found it. A silly typo in one new line of code. I'll fix that.

So I dont send the IPC logs.

I assume your use is different. You aren't after direct control, where you are deciding exactly what brake, flap or spoiler values to use, but simply want to reduce or change the actual values which would have been applied?

Yes you are right, on brakes I do the same as Thomas Richter do in his Autobrake utility, and I set a maximum brake value to limit brake eficency depending on runway condition.

On the Flaps I want to disconnect the axis at first, means Flaps error, flaps dont extract. After doing the steps on the non normal CL, depending on aircraft , the Flap value for FS should run very very slowly to a maxium value (on747-400) the value coresponding to 25degrees of flaps. The Count up (or down in retracting Flaps) comes from my software, which also displays the different synoptic in the upper EICAS (for 747-400, i dont know this on 737)

Maybe before I change anything at all we ought to have a longer discussion? My first inclination is to put the "raw" value through my calibration routine before providing it in the 34xx offsets. Would that be best?

Of course I am very interested in a discussion about this, the disconecting feature of fsuipc and the new graphic overlay idea, the first time for the last year I see the chance to build and to develop new things.

Best Regards

Peter

Austria

[Pete Dowson]

My first inclination is to put the "raw" value through my calibration routine before providing it in the 34xx offsets. Would that be best?

Of course I am very interested in a discussion about this

Well, for now I've gone with my first inclination -- if and only if one of those 4 axes are intercepted via 341A, I put the value which would have gone to FS after calibration into the relevant 34xx offset, and don't forward it at all. This means I still go through the calibration, slope and notch calculation just as if it hadn't been intercepted.

The only side effect of this, changing things from what they were before, is that the 34xx offsets are NOT updated if the axes aren't intercepted. To do that I'd either have to do quite a big re-write, or I'd have to compute the values twice, and I don't want that overhead. I don't think this matters, though? I shall note in the documents that the 34xx intercepted values are only valid when the intercept is enabled.

These changes will be in version 3.782 and 4.222. I'll upload them and supply links later today.

Regards

Pete

[pap]

Hi Pete

sounds good, I check this if available.

peter

[Pete Dowson]

sounds good, I check this if available.

Okay. Here they are:

http://fsuipc.simflight.com/beta/FSUIPC4222.zip

http://fsuipc.simflight.com/beta/FSUIPC3782.zip

Regards

Pete

[pap]

Hello again

Works great!

After disconnecting the flaps axis, an new offset (I tried 5733) is coppied to 0BDC to FS Flaps.

If the Altn Flap system is armed and the switch is set to extend, I count to 16000 very very slow. The value is written to 5733 by my pmsystem and copied to 0BDC by another faster program that I also use for brake override, autobrake, and maximum brake eficency depending on runway condition. 20 Minutes after starting Altn Flaps extending, Flaps have moved to 25 degr. So only the new synoptic in upper Eicas is missing, will check that in the next days.

Was a great weekend

Thank again

Peter

Austria