Any reason to use the Saitek Throttle axis lever buttons?

[macwino]

I have been manually programming 2 Saitek throttle quadrants with fsuipc. I've read all the posts here concerning this piece of hardware, and I'm a bit confused about the utility - if any - of the buttons that are triggered when you pull an axis lever all the way back past the detent. While this function might be helpful when using the Saitek programming software - which I've not looked at - I don't understand why I would want to use these buttons when programming the TQ with fsuipc. Yet I see that some people on this forum are doing just this, although the complexities of their posts are beyond my programming skill level. Am I missing something? Please bear in mind that this is my first attempt at using a TQ and programming it with fsuipc.

Let me explain my thoughts a bit further. With fsuipc, I think I am able to calibrate an axis to do what I would want it to do without making use of this button feature. Let's take the throttle axis as an example. With fsuipc I can calibrate the axis so that reverse thrust is activated once the lever is pulled past the detent. And if I calibrate a wide idle area just above the detent, I can easily disable reverse thrust by pushing the lever forward just past the detent. So why would I want - as some people seem to be doing - to program a button below the detent that uses the throttle lever to activate reverse thrust when triggered and deactivates it when released? It just seems to make no practical sense to me. In addition, if there were some benefit to setting up this button, I've not yet figured out how to eliminate or override the fsuipc calibration that almost seems to require that there be an axis area devoted to reverse thrust if available on the plane, although perhaps this can be accomplished by reducing the span of the reverse thrust area to 0.

I have found a similar experience with the other 5 levers on the TQs. I just can't see a use for these buttons when using fsuipc. If anyone has some thoughts on how these buttons might be used, I'd appreciate their insight. I'm a novice at this. And buttons are so precious, I hate to see any go unused.

Thanks, Robert

[Pete Dowson]

I have been manually programming 2 Saitek throttle quadrants with fsuipc. I've read all the posts here concerning this piece of hardware, and I'm a bit confused about the utility - if any - of the buttons that are triggered when you pull an axis lever all the way back past the detent. While this function might be helpful when using the Saitek programming software - which I've not looked at - I don't understand why I would want to use these buttons when programming the TQ with fsuipc.

Well, I don't either, unless you don't want adjustable reverse and would prefer the whole range of the lever to be used for forward thrust control. Otherwise, I understand folks use the button to engage reverse thrust.

Let me explain my thoughts a bit further. With fsuipc, I think I am able to calibrate an axis to do what I would want it to do without making use of this button feature. Let's take the throttle axis as an example. With fsuipc I can calibrate the axis so that reverse thrust is activated once the lever is pulled past the detent. And if I calibrate a wide idle area just above the detent, I can easily disable reverse thrust by pushing the lever forward just past the detent.

Are, there's a detent as well, is there? That's nice! Even more reason for ignoring the button and having a reverse zone on the lever.

So why would I want - as some people seem to be doing - to program a button below the detent that uses the throttle lever to activate reverse thrust when triggered and deactivates it when released? It just seems to make no practical sense to me.

I fully agree. Even more so now you've told me there's a detente.

In addition, if there were some benefit to setting up this button, I've not yet figured out how to eliminate or override the fsuipc calibration that almost seems to require that there be an axis area devoted to reverse thrust if available on the plane, although perhaps this can be accomplished by reducing the span of the reverse thrust area to 0.

Well, sort of. You simply make the minimum setting (the max reverse setting) the same as the lowest of the centre idle settings, so there's no reverse range at all. Easy enough.

Regards

Pete

[macwino]

Pete, thanks for the prompt reply and the tip about axis programming. I'm sure one of these days it will come in handy.

Now it will be interesting to see if any users of the Saitek TQ chime in with some creative uses for these buttons.

Robert

[John Veldthuis]

My reason is that there is nothing below the detents to use except the buttons. There is no calibration down there so if you wish to use some of the throttle as reverser then you have to be very careful when bringing the throttles back to zero thrust. It is far easier to bring them back to their detent and when you want reverse just pull them down into the buttons and let FSUIPC do the work. It was not hard at all to set up. Just set a button press for the lever to decrease the engine (DECR from memory) and then I also add set throttle to 0 when released to ensure that it goes to zero.

[macwino]

John, thanks for the input. I see what you mean. I've just been very careful, and haven't experienced the problem you mention. But I've just been testing, not really flying and it may well become a problem when reducing to zero thrust when under the pressure of a difficult landing. Pete's tip about how to eliminate reverse thrust from the axis works just fine, and combined with your proposed use of this axis button, will definitely be worth implementing if I find I'm errantly pulling the throttle lever past the detent.

Have you found any uses for the other axis buttons?

Thanks, Robert

[Fry777]

My reason is that there is nothing below the detents to use except the buttons. There is no calibration down there so if you wish to use some of the throttle as reverser then you have to be very careful when bringing the throttles back to zero thrust. It is far easier to bring them back to their detent and when you want reverse just pull them down into the buttons and let FSUIPC do the work. It was not hard at all to set up. Just set a button press for the lever to decrease the engine (DECR from memory) and then I also add set throttle to 0 when released to ensure that it goes to zero.

I get the same behaviour as John. I have 2 TQ and if you calibrate them in fsuipc you get something like 16384 value for the max thrust (lever all the way up), to something like -16384 for the idle (throttle on 0), but the value doesn't change if I go under the idle thrust, in the red area (it is still -16384 if I go all the way down). That's why I have to use the button down under to get reverse. I would have preferred a "real" reverse zone as you describe.

If I understand well, you get a different value at idle than -16384, and get this -16384 value only way under, in the red area ? Can you post an extract of your fsuipc.ini file please (located in the fs9/modules folder) ? The [JoystickCalibration] part would be very useful :)

By the way Pete helped me fine tune the reverse parameter for these buttons here :

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=68817&p=427941#p427941

Now I am able to get only 1/2 reverse thrust power without editing the aircraft performance file... Very helpful :)

[Pete Dowson]

if you calibrate them in fsuipc you get something like 16384 value for the max thrust (lever all the way up), to something like -16384 for the idle (throttle on 0), but the value doesn't change if I go under the idle thrust, in the red area (it is still -16384 if I go all the way down).

If you are talking about the INPUT value, that isn't FSUIPC calibration, that's the value being received from the levers. If they don't change in your 'red' area, that because that are isn't part of the hardware axis range.

If you mean the OUT values don't change, but the IN values do, then you can most certainly calibrate in FSUIPC to make use of that red zone for reverse thrust adjustments. You have to calibrate the "idle" at the top of the zone, so that there's a gap in the values between minimum (max reverse) and the lower of the two central "idle" values.

Regards

Pete

[Andydigital]

There is no axis movement in the red zone, the red zone just activates the button at the bottom of travel. It's a shame Saitek didn't think to make the red zone an active part of the axis as it would have been perfect for reverse thrust/feather etc.

One thing though, currently the red zone is very small so it wouldn't have been much use even if it was active, it only has something like 5mm of travel. I cant remember the size exactly as i sent my Yoke back because it was one of the faulty products from the first few manufacturing runs with the phantom button press issue.

[Pete Dowson]

There is no axis movement in the red zone, the red zone just activates the button at the bottom of travel.

Aha! That explains it all.

Thanks!

Pete