CH Flight Yoke Button Mystery!!!

[Mulder1]

Hello Mr. Dawson,

I wonder if you can help me out with this little (or BIG rather) mystery? I'm a long time user of your brilliant FSUIPC 3 and 4 (registered of course) - and never had any problems - well minor maybe, but easily solved. This one however, has really grabbed me by the b... On my CH FLS Yoke, button #4 keeps sending gear UP and DOWN commands (when pressed Up and DOWN of course), and button #4 is NOT programmed to do so. I've checked all my FS commands and all of my FSUIPC commands closely. And there is absolutely NO programming, that I can see, that should send these commands. FSUIPC ver. 3.81 in use at this time. I have never encountered a problem like this before, in FS9 or in FSX.

Another thing: I believe that you once wrote in one of the FSUIPC manuals, that you in some future version would implement a function that would save a cockpit setup. I.e. if you changed a window in size and position, FSUIPC could save this new window size and position. Or do I remember wrong? (I’m not talking about the “stop resizing” function)

Best regards

Mulder Denmark

Windows XP

[Pete Dowson]

Hello Mr. Dawson

It's Dowson, actually, but call me Pete

On my CH FLS Yoke, button #4 keeps sending gear UP and DOWN commands (when pressed Up and DOWN of course), and button #4 is NOT programmed to do so. I've checked all my FS commands and all of my FSUIPC commands closely. And there is absolutely NO programming, that I can see, that should send these commands.

It really must be programmed to do so somewhere. There's no magic in this stuff.

When you look in the FS assignments are you looking in them for the correct joystick controls? There's a drop-down selector for different controls, the tabs only show one joystick at a time. A lot of folks don't realise that.

Another thing: I believe that you once wrote in one of the FSUIPC manuals, that you in some future version would implement a function that would save a cockpit setup. I.e. if you changed a window in size and position, FSUIPC could save this new window size and position. Or do I remember wrong? (I’m not talking about the “stop resizing” function)

No, I never proposed any such thing, sorry. Especially when it isn't needed -- FS always saves all that when you save a Flight.

Regards

Pete

[Mulder1]

Hello Mr. Dawson

It's Dowson, actually, but call me Pete

On my CH FLS Yoke, button #4 keeps sending gear UP and DOWN commands (when pressed Up and DOWN of course), and button #4 is NOT programmed to do so. I've checked all my FS commands and all of my FSUIPC commands closely. And there is absolutely NO programming, that I can see, that should send these commands.

It really must be programmed to do so somewhere. There's no magic in this stuff.

When you look in the FS assignments are you looking in them for the correct joystick controls? There's a drop-down selector for different controls, the tabs only show one joystick at a time. A lot of folks don't realise that.

Another thing: I believe that you once wrote in one of the FSUIPC manuals, that you in some future version would implement a function that would save a cockpit setup. I.e. if you changed a window in size and position, FSUIPC could save this new window size and position. Or do I remember wrong? (I’m not talking about the “stop resizing” function)

No, I never proposed any such thing, sorry. Especially when it isn't needed -- FS always saves all that when you save a Flight.

Regards

Pete

Hi Mr. Pete (just kidding) - Hi Pete,

I know that being a former commercial pilot, CFII and ATPL does not count for much in understanding how FS works. But I am a many year FS user - actually since 96. So yes - when I look in the FS assignments I AM looking in them for the correct joystick control! And I AM very much aware of the fact, that there's a drop-down selector for different controls. And just for the record - I have closely examined FSUIPC settings. So magic or not, it then must remain a mystery.

I also know that a cockpit stays unchanged if you save a flight is FS. I just do not like to save all those flights in FS. With the number of aircrafts I have installed - and counting their different models - we are talking about quite a huge number of saved flights. It is my experience, that too many saved flights fowls up the FS database - so therefore I thought that being able to save these settings in FSUIPC – like all other settings for a particular aircraft -would be great. But OK – I’ll do it the “old fashioned way”. I'll promise to get back to you if I ever solve the "mystery"!

Thank you much for your time…

Thank you for your time

Best regards

Mulder Denmark

[Pete Dowson]

when I look in the FS assignments I AM looking in them for the correct joystick control! And I AM very much aware of the fact, that there's a drop-down selector for different controls. And just for the record - I have closely examined FSUIPC settings. So magic or not, it then must remain a mystery.

Well, the button must be programmed for that somewhere. It's just a matter of looking.

I also know that a cockpit stays unchanged if you save a flight is FS. I just do not like to save all those flights in FS. With the number of aircrafts I have installed - and counting their different models - we are talking about quite a huge number of saved flights. It is my experience, that too many saved flights fowls up the FS database - so therefore I thought that being able to save these settings in FSUIPC – like all other settings for a particular aircraft -would be great.

If you want the windows sorted by Aircraft I think you can do all the work in the PANELS.CFG file for that aircraft -- not precise placement, but certainly general positioning (I think they divide the screen into 9 sectors and assign according to those).

I really can't see any easy way that FSUIPC would be able to do it automatcally. Each aircraft has its own set of windows defined, and many of them may not be actually visible/extant at any one time. It can ennumerate all the windows in the system (being a child of FS isn't enough), and those which belong to FS can be identified (they are class "FS98CHILD" or "FS98FLOAT") but these can include all sorts of "Windows" which aren't necessarily meant to be part of the cockpit (though maybe those wouldn't matter). It would get pretty messy, though, not something I would want FSUIPC to get involved in.

Maybe this would be a suitable subject for a separate add-on -- even one outside of FS could do it by ennumerating all the FS windows. Perhaps you should suggest it to one of the other add-on producers like Luciano Napolitano?

Regards

Pete

[Mulder1]

when I look in the FS assignments I AM looking in them for the correct joystick control! And I AM very much aware of the fact, that there's a drop-down selector for different controls. And just for the record - I have closely examined FSUIPC settings. So magic or not, it then must remain a mystery.

Well, the button must be programmed for that somewhere. It's just a matter of looking.

I also know that a cockpit stays unchanged if you save a flight is FS. I just do not like to save all those flights in FS. With the number of aircrafts I have installed - and counting their different models - we are talking about quite a huge number of saved flights. It is my experience, that too many saved flights fowls up the FS database - so therefore I thought that being able to save these settings in FSUIPC – like all other settings for a particular aircraft -would be great.

If you want the windows sorted by Aircraft I think you can do all the work in the PANELS.CFG file for that aircraft -- not precise placement, but certainly general positioning (I think they divide the screen into 9 sectors and assign according to those).

I really can't see any easy way that FSUIPC would be able to do it automatcally. Each aircraft has its own set of windows defined, and many of them may not be actually visible/extant at any one time. It can ennumerate all the windows in the system (being a child of FS isn't enough), and those which belong to FS can be identified (they are class "FS98CHILD" or "FS98FLOAT") but these can include all sorts of "Windows" which aren't necessarily meant to be part of the cockpit (though maybe those wouldn't matter). It would get pretty messy, though, not something I would want FSUIPC to get involved in.

Maybe this would be a suitable subject for a separate add-on -- even one outside of FS could do it by ennumerating all the FS windows. Perhaps you should suggest it to one of the other add-on producers like Luciano Napolitano?

Regards

Pete

Hi Pete,

Like I wrote, I'm not completely new to FS, and I can assure you, that no such programming is present in FS nor is it in FSUIPC. So after another thorough examination (I think it must have been nr. 100) I decided to disable joystick completely. The problem disappeared. Thus the problem was FS and not FSUIPC. The only reason, by the way, I didn't not do that earlier, was because of the FS pan function. It seems to operate smoother in FS than in FSUIPC. I don’t know why.

With regards to window sizing and placing, I will follow your suggestion. Thank you very much for your time.

Best regards

Mulder Denmark

[peterhayes]

Mulder

One thought did you ever use the CH Control Manager Software?

Partcicularly in "mapped" mode, you might have had a button mapped there?

If not - just forget this post.

PeterH

[jaybee]

Hi,

Just for future reference, the rogue assignment is in the FS9.cfg file, I have had the same problem and cured it by removing the entry from the file (under the JOYSTICK_MAIN section)

Hope it may save others a lot of hastle.

Rob

[Mulder1]

folder:

Hi,

Just for future reference, the rogue assignment is in the FS9.cfg file, I have had the same problem and cured it by removing the entry from the file (under the JOYSTICK_MAIN section)

Hope it may save others a lot of hastle.

Rob

Hi Jaybee,

Thanks’ for joining in. Well, I tried to locate the JOYSTICK_MAIN cfg. Not much luck though. I did however, delete entries in the devices.cfg file in the FS folder:

Entry:

[Generic]

BUTTON_DOWN_EVENT_07=GEAR_TOGGLE

and entry:

[CH FLIGHT SIM YOKE USB]

BUTTON_DOWN_EVENT_04=GEAR_UP

BUTTON_DOWN_EVENT_05=GEAR_DOWN

No effect what so ever :-(

Best regards

Mulder Denmark

[Pete Dowson]

I tried to locate the JOYSTICK_MAIN cfg. Not much luck though. I did however, delete entries in the devices.cfg file in the FS folder:

Entry:

[Generic]

BUTTON_DOWN_EVENT_07=GEAR_TOGGLE

and entry:

[CH FLIGHT SIM YOKE USB]

BUTTON_DOWN_EVENT_04=GEAR_UP

BUTTON_DOWN_EVENT_05=GEAR_DOWN

No effect what so ever :-(

The Device.cfg file is only used to provide FS with an initial automatic assignment, to suit the specific device (it finds the one with the name reported by the Windows joystick driver). It will only do this when you plug in a device (first, or after having disconnected it) , or if you re-enable the device in the Options-Controls-Assignments dialogue after it has been disabled.

To find out whether it is actually a button operating your Gear, and if so which one it is, try enabling Button logging in the Logging page in FSUIPC options, and see what Joystick number/button number it detects. If you enable Event logging too it will show the resulting event(s).

Pete

[Bob Church]

Hi,

FWIW, the Devices.cfg settings are reinstated any time you "reset defaults" or if FS decides to rewrite your .CFG file. In FS9, resetting defaults leaves the CFG file blank, it seems only to record settings that you've manually overridden with the FS Controls Assignments dialog in the CFG dialog. I'd also guess that the FS dialog won't show you GEAR_UP and GEAR_DOWN commands since it doesn't support them itself. IOW, if your control configuration got reset, it's not unthinkable that the GEAR_UP and GEAR_DOWN assignments are made in FS and are still invisible. The CH Yoke is the only place I've seen them use GEAR_UP and GEAR_DOWN at all, and then only in Devices.cfg.

I would try this. Make a backup of Devices.cfg, then go in and edit it to remove the assignments for the gear commands, then "Reset Defaults" and see if that doesn't clear them up.

Just a guess, but Peter is right. It has to be assigned someplace, FS doesn't make things up, and Devices.cfg is the only place I know where anybody assigns GEAR_UP and GEAR_DOWN at all (outside of FSUIPC of course).

Best regards,

- Bob

The StickWorks

http://www.stickworks.com

[jaybee]

The entries are definately in the FS9.cfg file (located in /Documents and Settings/YOUR_USERNAME/Application Data/Microsoft/FS9) -note this is a hidden folder.

There will be sections for [Joystick_Main] &[Joystick_Slew] in the file

Here is a snippet of my FS9.cfg file :-

[JOYSTICK_MAIN {C278F830-87F4-11DC-8001-444553540000}]

AXIS_EVENT_00=AXIS_AILERONS_SET

AXIS_SCALE_00=54

AXIS_NULL_00=36

AXIS_EVENT_01=AXIS_ELEVATOR_SET

AXIS_SCALE_01=38

AXIS_NULL_01=36

AXIS_EVENT_02=AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

AXIS_SCALE_02=127

AXIS_NULL_02=1

AXIS_EVENT_03=AXIS_MIXTURE_SET

AXIS_SCALE_03=127

AXIS_NULL_03=1

AXIS_EVENT_04=AXIS_PROPELLER_SET

AXIS_SCALE_04=127

AXIS_NULL_04=1

BUTTON_DOWN_REPEAT_00=1

BUTTON_DOWN_EVENT_06=FLAPS_DECR

BUTTON_DOWN_EVENT_07=FLAPS_INCR

BUTTON_DOWN_EVENT_10=ELEV_TRIM_DN

BUTTON_DOWN_REPEAT_10=1

BUTTON_DOWN_EVENT_11=ELEV_TRIM_UP

BUTTON_DOWN_REPEAT_11=1

POV_MOVE_REPEAT_00=2

[JOYSTICK_SLEW {C278F830-87F4-11DC-8001-444553540000}]

AXIS_EVENT_00=AXIS_SLEW_SIDEWAYS_SET

AXIS_SCALE_00=54

AXIS_NULL_00=36

Hope this helps

Rob

[Bob Church]

Hi Rob,

>> The entries are definitely in the FS9.cfg file... <<

No, they aren't actually. If you start with a default FS9.CFG as you would have after installation, after doing a "Reset Defaults" or after FS9 detects a change in your controller configuration and resets the CFG file, there are no joystick settings in FS9.CFG. They don't appear until you modify some joystick-setting. It doesn't have to be an assignment, in snippet you posted it's probably because you changed the Sensitivities and Null Zones.

You can prove it to yourself. Rename FS9.CFG so FS creates a new one. Start a flight, don't make any assignments, sensitivity changes, etc. Exit the flight and go look at FS9.CFG. You'll have no Joystick section in file. If you go in and even tweak a deadzone, though, then the entire section of Devices.cfg for your controller will be copied into FS9.CFG with the appropriate changes.

I just did some tests with FS9. I plugged in a CH FighterStick, there was one handy. It has no specific section so it falls under [Generic]. I changed the assignments in Devices.cfg for buttons 02 and 03 to GEAR_UP and GEAR_DOWN, deleted FS9.CFG, and started up FS9. I took the default flight, but set the aircraft to the Baron 58 to have a landing gear. Sure enough, buttons 2 and 3 controlled gear up and gear down. Since I hadn't at that point touched any of the joystick settings, there was still no joystick section in FS9.cfg. It's also worth noting that the GEAR_UP and GEAR_DOWN commands did not appear in the list of assignments, even though they were obviously working. Again, my guess is that since the Controls Assignments dialog doesn't support GEAR_UP and GEAR_DOWN it can't display them. They do work, though.

I prefer modifying Devices.cfg myself. FS won't rewrite it, so even if it dumps the CFG file entirely, the defaults it picks up are what you had set. You can set the Sensitivities, Null Zones, Button Assignments, Repeat Rates, etc. in Devices.cfg and all you need is a Reset Defaults to get your settings back. If you make the assignments normally, you can simply cut them out of your FS9.cfg file, replace the ones for the controller in the Devices.cfg file, and then reset the FS9.cfg file so it has no entries in it. It will run from Devices.cfg directly. You can also create new sections in Devices.cfg if your stick doesn't have it's own set of assignments. It's probably not the best of ideas to modify [Generic], but if you've got a PFC Yoke or something like that, create a section for assignments and then a second section for slew. Use the Name exactly as it appears in the Game Controllers list, "CH FIGHTERSTICK USB" or whatever. Works great for me.

The same thing seemed to be true of FS2K. I never used FS2K2, but since FS2K4 works that way, my guess is it works the same way in FS2K2.

Hope this helps clarify things.

Best regards,

- Bob

The StickWorks

http://www.stickworks.com

[jaybee]

Bob,

Thanks for clearing that up, and yes you are right I did adjust null zones .

Thats also some great advise about copying the settings to Devices.cfg for restoring at a later date.

Many thanks for the info.

Rob

[wouter.roerdink]

Hello everybdoy.

I had the same problem with my yoke and first tried the suggestions mentioned earlier, with the same results.

Then I decided just to delete the words GEAR_TOGGLE, GEAR_UP and GEAR_DOWN, both in devices.cfg and fs9.cfg, using the windows command control-H, to replace the words with nothing.

After that I haven't had any problems. Even changing assignments or removing and plugging in my yoke didn't change the settings. So I think this is the best way to solve this problem.

Happy flying and many happy landings!

Wouter Roerdink