FSUIPC BLACK SCEEN FREEZE

[Thomas Galitello]

Hi,

I'm having trouble with FSUIPC 3.0.4.0 and FS9. I'm running a brand new system with XP Professional. I installed and registered the FSUIPC per instructions and also tried putting FSUIPC in the modules folder first then recoping the remaining modules as noted in the directions under resolving problems.

After starting FS9 and planning the flight, I hit ALT-ENTER to reduce the screen. From there, I log onto AOL then switch back to FS9 to load the real world weather. Once loaded, I quit AOL and attemp to go back to FS9. Each time, it freezes with a black screen. After quitting FS9, I get a message that "duplicate copy of FSUIPC is installed"--don't understand that. If I remove the FSUIPC.dll, everything works fine.

Please help. I never had this problem with FS2002 and earlier versions of FSUPIC.

Thanks,

[Pete Dowson]

After starting FS9 and planning the flight, I hit ALT-ENTER to reduce the screen. From there, I log onto AOL then switch back to FS9 to load the real world weather. Once loaded, I quit AOL and attemp to go back to FS9. Each time, it freezes with a black screen.

It's a well known problem with DX9 and some video drivers. It is not caused by FSUIPC or any other add-in, but it is exacerbated by other processes running in the background, particularly Windows add-ons such as RoboForm (sp ?) and WindowBlinds, apparently. First try closing down all non-essential processes before running FS. But I think you may find the only answer is going to be in different video drivers.

The black screen problems were know throughout FS2004 testing, always occurring when swtiching between full screen and windowed, or between minimised and windowed, and were solved almost every time by video driver updates. They've never been specifically connected with any add-in, let alone FSUIPC, but obviously you are more likely to be switching back and forth when running IPC application programs.

I think I'm going to have to add this to my list of potential lies about FSUIPC :? There are other threads here with the same questions and answers, already. Also see the FS2004 forum.

Regards,

Pete

[iflyskyhawks]

It's a well known problem with DX9 and some video drivers. It is not caused by FSUIPC or any other add-in, but it is exacerbated by other processes running in the background, particularly Windows add-ons such as RoboForm (sp ?) and WindowBlinds, apparently. First try closing down all non-essential processes before running FS. But I think you may find the only answer is going to be in different video drivers.

Pete,

Let me start by saying that FSUIPC has and continues to be one of the most incredible utilities ever designed for Microsoft's Flight Simulator. I've been using the tool since FS2000 and am amazed at what it has offered.

Yesterday, I registered my copy of FSUIPC and while waiting for the key, went ahead and dropped it in the modules folder of FS9.

Like the previous post, I moved back and forth from full-screen mode and windowed mode in order to capture some screenshots for a review I'm working on for FS9.

On three separate occasions, FS9 locked up with a black screen and a mouse cursor flashing between hourglass and mouse pointer.

I thought about what had changed in my setup since I've been capturing screenshots in this manner since purchasing FS9 and have had no problem.

I removed FSUIPC from the modules directory and again, moved back and forth between full screen and windowed mode. After the removal of the .DLL, the lock up did not occur.

I'm writing to tell you about a situation. Not to place blame or insist that FSUPIC is the cause. In my situation, it was the only variable that had changed.

I will continue to look into this. I just got my registration via email, so I intend on installing the module again and will do additional tests.

Thank you for your hard work and dedication to the flight sim community.

[Pete Dowson]

[quote name="iflyskyhawks

On three separate occasions' date=' FS9 locked up with a black screen and a mouse cursor flashing between hourglass and mouse pointer....Not to place blame or insist that FSUPIC is the cause. In my situation, it was the only variable that had changed.[/quote]

Yes, but tthere is nothing FSUIPC is doing or can do about it. Only the video drivers can do such things. Sorry.

Regards,

Pete

[iflyskyhawks]

Yes, but tthere is nothing FSUIPC is doing or can do about it. Only the video drivers can do such things. Sorry.

No problem Pete. Thank you for your response. I have no doubt that there are video driver problems contributing to the instability some of us encounter.

Hopefully ATI will address this in the next release of their video drivers.

Thanks!

[WBF]

Just to make note I have posted several times to this board, hinting that FSUIPC was the cause for this problem and in all of my research I fully believe that this is not the case and that I feel it is something in the workings of FS2004 conflicting with DirectX.

Having said that I do want to point out something else though.

The black screen problems were know throughout FS2004 testing, always occurring when swtiching between full screen and windowed, or between minimised and windowed, and were solved almost every time by video driver updates. They've never been specifically connected with any add-in, let alone FSUIPC, but obviously you are more likely to be switching back and forth when running IPC application programs.

So what you are saying Pete is that this problem was "known by Microsoft" and yet the program was released "anyway", without it being completely solved?

An not to sound rude to you, but please don't tell me that the problem was "thought" to have been solved via a driver update becase it has shown up enough times now with enough people under enough different setups with no one I have seen so far saying they solving it with a different or specific driver, so it obviously it cannot "not" be "solved almost every time", this way.

[Pete Dowson]

So what you are saying Pete is that this problem was "known by Microsoft" and yet the program was released "anyway", without it being completely solved?

No. I don't think it is an FS9 problem but it is between DX9 and video drivers. It was able to be completely solved by everyone that I know of, eventually, by some combination of changing video drivers, video cards or DX version. In some cases it took a lot of hassle, chopping and changing, not always to later drivers, sometimes earlier.

... so it obviously it cannot "not" be "solved almost every time", this way.

I'm sorry, but all the evidence I heard about, and experienced myself, does actually point that way. What else can I say? I know of no other theories.

I think one of the top experts in this area is Katy Pluta. She frequents the FS2004 forum, near here. Perhaps you might like to post a question there and see whether she, or others there, can help?

Sorry, I cannot really help further. I was certainly one of the sufferers of this problem -- very much so, using some earlier versions of the Matrox Parhelia drivers -- but the current 1.04 edition of the Parhelia drivers are standing up very well.

I am still on DX9a -- I did consider updating to DX9b but I thought I'd leave well enough alone for now. :)

Regards,

Pete

[WBF]

I sincerely hope I am not coming off argumentive with you directly Pete, I know that I have posted about this before here and I’m sorry to keep harping on you as I know its not your fault but I have spent a great deal of money on building the most up to date machine and on the game and its add-ons only to have it all be completely useless because of this problem, and its inability to be solved, so I am very very frustrated. My only hope is that the jerks at M$ read this and see what they have done.

No. I don't think it is an FS9 problem but it is between DX9 and video drivers

As far as that all I can say is if that were true I would have gotten this problem with other games or other FS's.

This IS not the case, I have used the set up I have for a very long time now and I have never, repeat never had or as of present have this problem with any other game or application under any kind of use or circumstances on my machine....only with FS9.

I'm sorry, but all the evidence I heard about, and experienced myself, does actually point that way

Well not in MY case, I have yet to solve this problem and again I have yet to find a post or regard other than yours that state’s a driver has fixed it. I guess the only thing I haven't tried yet is your posted solution of spending a huge amount of time loading and unloading different drivers until I find the Holy Grail of driver that works for me.

Funny I don’t remember reading that line as a listed requirement needed for being able to run the sim

[Pete Dowson]

I sincerely hope I am not coming off argumentive with you directly Pete

No, not particularly. I hate there to be problems, and wish I knew how to help more. At present all I can do is try to relay what information I actually know about the problem.

Incidentally, after I sent the last reply, I loaded up FS2004 on my system with those Parhelia drivers I mentioned, and deliberately tried to reproduce a "black screen" problem again. After a number of swaps between full screen mode (which is over 3 monitors at 3840 x 1024) and normal single monitor maximised windowed (at 1280x 1024), I got no problem...

However, one time when I was in maximised windowed mode I "restored" the window to a smaller size. That worked, but when I pressed ALT+ENTER to go to full screen mode from the smaller window, all that happened was that window went black and the mouse pointer sat on it fluttering like mad.

I again pressed ALT+ENTER and got the same but with the menu. It seemed that FS2004 wasn't "hung" as such, but the 3D window view was certainly irrevocably turned black. I closed FS okay, but then got the usual "program crash, report to MS" window. According to the details in that it was D3D9.DLL (I think -- I may have mis-remembered it), certainly part of Direct 3D.

So, I decided to upgrade to DX9b (from DX9a) after all ...

I've done that, I'm now on DX9b, and I tried the exact same sequence again, and couldn't get the black screen this time. Not that whatever problem it is is necessarily fixed by DX9b, just that this particular instance of it is.

As far as that all I can say is if that were true I would have gotten this problem with other games or other FS's.

Yes, well. Actually, to my knowledge, that sort of statement has been made with every version of Flight Sim, ever since I can remember. MSFS has always been the ultimate test of your system, its drivers, and so on. There have always been problems in systems shown up by the latest version of FS and nothing else.

I'm truly sorry I have been of no help to you, but I've explained everything I know about this problem. I do hope you find the solution for your specific system. If I do find out anything else, I will be sure to let folks know, probably here.

Regards,

Pete

[WBF]

Thanks for all your help Pete and I'm glad to here that you understand my ranting is not against you.

BTW just to note that I have been using DX9b for sometime now as well as the recommend WHQL NVidia drivers (via the sims own news page) which at this point are ver 45.23. Also note that as far as DxDig is concerned all the drivers I am using with Dx are WHQL Certified.

On a positive note, not that it has helped but I did find a really cool program called Batchrun that is a great GUI program for building .bat files. It’s made by the same people who make Cacheman and can be found at: http://www.outertech.com/index.php?_chadbdbc5528a

Basically I have setup a batch file to first close unwanted programs then open FS9.exe. This way I am sure they get closed even if I forget to close them before running the sim. After creating the startup .bat file I put it in the FS9 directory (not that it needs it but just so I know where it is), created a shortcut to it and put that on my desktop, changed the shortcut name and icon to the FS9 one and no one can tell the diff.

Of course if you need one of the closed programs after you will have to restart them but at least this way you don't have to remember to close them each time.

Again this has not solved MY problem but it may help others.

All thanks Pete.

[Badger]

Hi all,

I posted a Black Screen 'get around' earlier in the forum, but I think its worth bringing it up again. I'm using all the latest NVIDIA drivers and DX9b and STILL get a black screen when switching.

I've never found that FS9 has hung yet, no matter how it appears. I've always been able to get back to the Full screen mode and hit ALT to get the menu's up. Then use the mouse to toggle the Anti Alias setting under the display settings. This has always given me a picture back.

Its not a fix, but does mean that there is no need to quit FS9.

Installing FSUIPC made no difference. I had the problem before and until MS sort their code, I'm sure I'll continue to have it.

[Thomas Galitello]

Good morning,

I updated my drivers over the weekend (13 August release) and reinstalled FSUIPC. I'm still having the same black screen problems. Specifically, after leaving full screen mode to launch AOL for real-world weather. After receiving the wx and closing AOL, I'm unable to get FS9 back--remains in minimized mode. After repeated ALT-ENT inputs I can get FS9 back but with a black screen. Again, I removed FSUIPC and I now have no problems.

I'm troubled by this since I view FSUIPC as essential and without it, I'm limited in my ability to add certain future commercial FS addons. I've never had a problem with FS2002 though that was with a different computer with a much older video card and drivers.

We need to keep this issue in the forefront until resolved; I suspect this problem affects many many systems. I'll keep my eye on new driver releases, but I remain very frustrated.

[Badger]

Have you checked Pete's update info at the top of this forum. You need v3.06 to ensure that you are not getting a black screen from the settings for rain.

[merlins]

Someone else with the dreaded screen freeze. Never mind, the FSUIPC author can pass the blame to someone/something else. Couldn't be the dll oh no couldn't possibly be that, lmao.

Did you pay money for that thing Thomas ?

merlins

[Pete Dowson]

After a recent hardware change, I have, for the first time, been able to consistently reproduce the black screen problem (no freezes or crashes though) on a screen mode switch, and I have discovered a work around.

Please try it and let me know -- I've written it up in the IMPORTANT announcement.

If this does deal with the reported problems then it most definitely points to some bug in FS itself, as the work around only changes the order in which the various parts of FS subclass the main window. The techniques for this have been use identically in many modules since FS95 days without such problems.

Regards,

Pete

[Bozo]

I've been having this problem and put it down to an incompatability in the video driver between Hercules Kyro Prophet 4500 PC TV-OUT and DirectX 9.0. Anyway....

I only run FSUIPC on my FS2004 setup, and I added the line InitDelay=0 to the [General] section of FSUIPC.INI in the Flight Simulator 9\Modules Directory.

I can confirm that it did not solve the problem as everytime I run FS2004 it overwrites the ini file with what appears to be it's default configuration settings.

In other words adding the line InitDelay=0 didn't work becuase it is removed everytime I start FS2004.

I should state that I am using an unregistered version V3.05 of FSUIPC which may well have this behaviour. It may behave differently in a registered version.

[Pete Dowson]

I should state that I am using an unregistered version V3.05 of FSUIPC which may well have this behaviour. It may behave differently in a registered version.

Yes, sorry. You have no such options at all if your FSUIPC is unregistered. If this 'fix' does work I will then change the defaults in FSUIPC so that it is =0 normally, and then it should (may?) work for you too. But I am not doing this till I know it is the best solution.

BTW 3.06 is the current version.

Regards,

Pete

[Bozo]

Well I shouldn't be such a skin flint! I've now registered and installed V3.06 and added the InitDelay workround, and can now use Alt Enter quite happily.

Just to let you know that that video card has the latest driver from Hercules installed and I emailed hercules some time ago about a problem I was having with their driver and other software using directx9. Their response was that the Kyro chipset was not supported in DirectX9.

ces't la vie!

[Pete Dowson]

Well I shouldn't be such a skin flint! I've now registered and installed V3.06 and added the InitDelay workround, and can now use Alt Enter quite happily.

Great! Thanks for letting me know!

Pete

[Thomas Galitello]

Good afternoon Pete,

I added the InitDelay=0 line at the end of the FSUIPC.INI file (registered 3.0.6 verison, restarted FS9 and took the following steps.

1. loaded a flight plan

2. Used ALT-ENTER to reduce screen size (to view AOL icon)

3. Launched AOL

4. Swithched to FS9 to load wx

5. Swithched back to AOL and selected quit program

6. AOL quit leaving the reduced FS9 window (this is where I would normally get hung up before)

7. I keyed ALT-ENTER again to bring FS9 to full screen, however the program disappeard. Hitting the ALT key to bring up the menu did not work and hitting ALT-ENTER didn't work. The interesting thing is that when hitting CTRL-ALT-DEL to bring up the application manager, I found that FS9 was no longer running.

Any suggestions? Thanks.

Regards,

[Pete Dowson]

I added the InitDelay=0 line at the end of the FSUIPC.INI file

At the end? Was it still in the [General] section? Otherwise it would have done nothing.

I found that FS9 was no longer running. Any suggestions?

Ouch. The only thing you can do there is report it to Microsoft. Sorry, there's nothing I can do with that.

Even the little change with InitDelay=0 only changes timings slightly, nothing else, and I've found that doesn't work in all circumstances either. I'm hoping Microsoft will see fit to update something sometime, whether it's in DX9 or FS itself, I don't know, but I have certainly proven here that it isn't FSUIPC or any of my modules which are responsible. Just minor changes in timing affects it, and almost any of the modules can do that, as can a change in video driver, which was an earlier theory.

Since it happens without any add-on modules, or with just certain ones (here, for instance, with *only* Lago's ViMaCore2004, or my AdvDisplay, or my PFC or my FSUIPC), and with a variety of different video card types, the only common factors left are DX9 and FS itself.

When I managed to be able to reliably reproduce the black screen problem here, I was quite pleased because it afforded me the opportunity to do a detailed investigation. And it was doing that which I learned that, even making FSUIPC do nothing (i.e. cutting out all the code EXCEPT subclassing the FS window and doing nothing in there either) and making no difference, it was nothing I could correct.

When I found the same with only the other modules I mentioned present, the common factor being the delayed subclass operation, I tried cutting that delay out, and with success -- but only in the sequence I was using. Since then I found a different sequence which still gives the black screen, and this time with no add-in modules too.

Still, some improvement is better than nothing, so I will re-issue FSUIPC with "InitDelay" defaulting to 0, and also versions of AdvDisplay and PFC with no delayed subclass. But I will not (cannot) guarantee that it will be better I'm afraid. Just that it might be and is on at least mine and several other folks' systems.

Regards,

Pete

[Vulcan]

Don't know if this of any help Pete, but here goes .

Start FS9 and go to full screen, OK. Close FS9 and then restart so it opens in full screen mode.

Splash screen opens but all is black with only the spinning aircraft showing.

ALT+ENTER to go back to windowed mode and all is OK and can 'restore down' and and back to full size. I can also go from small window view to full screen using ALT+ENTER without a problem.

However if I try to open FSNav in full screen mode it partially appears, draws very slowly, then switches back to panel view with occasional flashes of part of FSNav.

FSNav displays correctly, and draws quickly in windowed mode, and it looks as if AA works in window mode which I don't think it did in FS2k2.

This is with a register version of FSUIPC and InitDelay=0 in the genral section, also AdvDisplay.dll is renamed to take that out of the equation.

Running a GF4 Ti4800SE card with 44.03 drivers and Quincunx AA set in the card, not in FS.

I do not have the ViMaCore2004.dll nor the PFC dll anywhere in FS9 but do have autosave V 1.4.5.

Rgds

Vulcan

PS AdvDisplay is still showing V2.1.1 on your main page Pete.

[Pete Dowson]

if I try to open FSNav in full screen mode it partially appears, draws very slowly, then switches back to panel view with occasional flashes of part of FSNav.

I'm sorry, but I really cannot try to improve the chances other people's programs have of getting around this FS or DX problem. You will have to report that to Helge.

I have not fixed anything. There is nothing in any of my software which can fix any of this. I have conclusively proved that. The minor changes I have made recently are merely aimed at trying to reduce the probability, insofar as I can in my code. Others have to deal with it in whatever way they find suitable. I cannot alter other's code even if I knew what to alter.

AdvDisplay is still showing V2.1.1 on your main page Pete.

I have no main page. I have this forum, and that is all. As I keep saying to everyone, I distribute my software by email attachment to about 50 site managers. Some put it up fast, some slow, some not at all. I have no control whatsoever over that. All I can do is tell folks here when I have released something and what the changes are. I recommend Enrico Schiratti's page as he is usually fastest, but I do not control him. He is his own man.

Regards,

Pete

[Vulcan]

I was not asking you to fix the FSNav problem Peter, I was reporting what was happening on my system with certain settings in the hope it was of help, obviously it was not despite you asking users to test the InitDelay=0 line.

>I have no main page<

My mistake.

I thought this was where we got your most recent files from

http://www.schiratti.com/dowson.html

Obviously I was mistaken about that also, I will delete it from my bookmarks and await something turning up at http://www.avsim.com

[Pete Dowson]

I was not asking you to fix the FSNav problem Peter, I was reporting what was happening on my system with certain settings in the hope it was of help, obviously it was not despite you asking users to test the InitDelay=0 line.

Oh, I see. Sorry, my misunderstanding.

I think the InitDelay setting only helps in the one circumstance I suggested, though from all the messages I thought that was the main circumstance. I'm not really clear, in your report, what was different with or without the InitDelay set to zero.

I'm going to default it to 0 in 3.07 I think. The benefits seem to outweigh any drawbacks -- or was your report saying it made things worse?

I thought this was where we got your most recent files from

http://www.schiratti.com/dowson.html

Obviously I was mistaken about that also, I will delete it from my bookmarks and await something turning up at http://www.avsim.com

As I thought I said, I refer folks mainly to that Schiratti site because Enrico, whose page it is, does update it before anyone else, as a rule. I think Avsim only put links to that site in any case, so I don't think deleting your bookmark will help you a lot. In fact, I don't recall AvSim actually putting AdvDisplay up in any case, though they, like many other sites, do automatically get all my updates.

Also, Enrico is the only one who does put all my modules up in one place, so it makes it the best one for me to refer folks to. He does, however, make it clear on that page that it is his site, not mine.

Regards,

Pete