Air brake and spoilers using CH Throttle Quadrant

[lluisdc]

Good evening,

I am a pure manual reader so making questions on forums is usually my last chance. My apologies in advance if I am asking something already crystal clear.

I use FS2004, CH flight sim yoke, pedals and throttle quadrant.

I am flying the BAe 146-300 (ICAO B463)of Historic Jetliners Group (http://www.simviation.com/hjg/main.htm) and the North American F-86 "Sabre" (ICAO F86) of Section 8 (http://www.sectionf8.com/index.html).

The F86 has lateral speed brakes which may be or fully deployed or not. The FS2004 keyboard button performs the action.

The B463 (figure attached) has an air brake (same keystroke as for the F86) and next position down deploys the lift spoiler.

My intention was to assign one of the levers in the CH throttle quadrant to the F86 speed brakes and also for the B463. For the former, the level full forward for air brakes not deployed and back to the notch for fully deployed. For the latter, the full forward position for the air brakes not deployed, the notch when air brake is deployed and backmost position to deploy the lift spoiler.

I have tried to find the way to do this is the FSUIPC manual but I have been unable and also FSUIP has many possibilities for spoilers and air brakes and sincerely I do not know which to use for the assignements. Any help on which page of the manual or advanced user manual will be appreciated.

Thank you,

Lluís

[Pete Dowson]

My intention was to assign one of the levers in the CH throttle quadrant to the F86 speed brakes and also for the B463. For the former, the level full forward for air brakes not deployed and back to the notch for fully deployed. For the latter, the full forward position for the air brakes not deployed, the notch when air brake is deployed and backmost position to deploy the lift spoiler.

Isn't that the same for nearly all aircraft, including all Boeing airliners?

I have tried to find the way to do this is the FSUIPC manual but I have been unable and also FSUIP has many possibilities for spoilers and air brakes and sincerely I do not know which to use for the assignements.

On the contrary, all FSUIPC offers (all it can offer) is the spoiler axis, which is the same one you can assign in FS itself. In FS there is no difference between "speed brakes" and "spoilers" -- they are called speed brakes when used up to one point in the air ("flight" detente on the boeings), and spoilers when used after landing in the fully deployed position. FS calls them spoilers in both cases.

FSUIPC does not invent facilities which FS does not have, it only provides an alternative way of doing the same things. I don't know how you have become confused and think there is more to it. There is not. Simply assign the spoiler axis as you wish, in FS or in FSUIPC. You may need to reverse the axis, in the calibration section, in order to have it deployed when pulled back, the opposite of a throttle lever (but the same as a flaps lever). That is all.

Regards

Pete

[lluisdc]

Good morning,

Thank you Peter. Now I am at the office but will try to sort it out this afternoon when back at home and will tell you the result.

Regards,

Lluís

[lluisdc]

Good evening,

Sorry for the delay but yesterday I had no time to test anything.

I have focused on the F86 as it has simple spoilers without armed position and these can only be deployed or not.

I have followed chapter "THE EASY STEP-by-STEP WAY ..." on pages 47 and 48 of the user manual and also the "NOTES AND EXCEPTIONS" in page 49 referred to the spoilers.

After loading the aircraft I have checked that the spoilers responded to the keyboard button (left of ENTER button and above the SHIFT button) and they did.

I have gone to the FSUIPC panel in the "Axis Assignment" tab, moved the lever until it has been detected, have assigned it to "Spoilers" under "Type of action required", ticked on the box left of the combo and ticked on the "Send direct to FSUIPC Calibration".

Under the "Joystick Calibration" tab I have again moved the lever to make sure the figures were changing, pressed the "Reset" button, moved the lever again to make sure the figures still were changing, pressed the "Set" button, moved the lever to its forwardmost position (positive values), clicked on its "Set" button, moved the lever to its backmost position (negative values) in the notch (not fully back as for reverse; only until the notch), clicked on its "Set" button, have left the two centre values as were by default (-512) and clicked on "OK".

Again with the aircraft active I have moved the lever but no response by the spoilers though they deployed if clicking on the keyboard button.

I have done the calibration again and ticked the "Rev" box. No response at all from the aircraft. I do not want to try to configure the B463 as it appears to be more complicated and first I prefer to try this "deployed-not deployed" type of spoiler.

In my FSUIPC.ini I can see the following:

SpoilerIncrement=512 in the [General] section

Spoilers=-11833,14592/16 in the [JoystickCalibration] section

Spoilers=-11312,14592 in the [JoystickCalibration.NA F86 Sabre] section

Also there are four more entries in other aircraft sections (DC3, DC4, AT72, B767) though I never assigned any lever to those spoilers.

Any suggestion will be warmly welcome.

Thanks,

Lluís

[Pete Dowson]

Again with the aircraft active I have moved the lever but no response by the spoilers though they deployed if clicking on the keyboard button.

Always, ALWAYS, test with default aircraft. If it works on the default FS aircraft but not on the add-on, then you have to ask the add-on makers how to driver their specially modified controls. FSUIPC can only offer standard FS controls. It doesn't know about any fancy differences for aircraft.

BTW please ALWAYS state version number of FSUIPC when asking for support.

regards

Pete

[pschlute]

Always best to calibrate spoilers when in the air.

[lluisdc]

Good morning,

Always, ALWAYS, test with default aircraft. If it works on the default FS aircraft but not on the add-on, then you have to ask the add-on makers how to driver their specially modified controls. FSUIPC can only offer standard FS controls. It doesn't know about any fancy differences for aircraft.

Sorry, I did not know I had to test with default aircraft as long as I was configuring for an "external" aircraft. I never fly default MS FS2004 aircraft; only add-ons either freeware or payware.

I tested the deployment of the spoilers in default FS2004 Boeing 737-400 and it worked. It did not in the North American F86 "Sabre". Will try to ask the developers hoping to have some reply.

BTW please ALWAYS state version number of FSUIPC when asking for support.

Again sorry. In my first post I said I was using MS FS2004 and thus my FSUIPC version is the latest for this simulator: 3.99

Will try to make this work both for the F86 and the B463.

Regards,

Lluís

[lluisdc]

Again good morning,

Always best to calibrate spoilers when in the air.

Thank you for the suggestion. Unfortunately, at this moment I am unable to calibrate it on ground and for an add-on aircraft, thus perhaps more complicated for me if doing in flight.

Will do my best to calibrate it.

Regards,

Lluís

[Pete Dowson]

Sorry, I did not know I had to test with default aircraft as long as I was configuring for an "external" aircraft. I never fly default MS FS2004 aircraft; only add-ons either freeware or payware.

The problem is that a lot of add-on aircraft do their own thing, ignoring the FS systems which is all FSUIPC or FS know.

There might be ways of dealing with add-on peculiarities, but these almost always have to be investigated separately, and it can get complicated.

Therefore, when setting up controls of any sort you always need to start with a suitable default aircraft. Then, when trying it on the add-on you will detect whether it is a change the add-on has introdced rather than something wrong with your controls or the way you are programming them.

I tested the deployment of the spoilers in default FS2004 Boeing 737-400 and it worked. It did not in the North American F86 "Sabre". Will try to ask the developers hoping to have some reply.

Okay. But tell me, does the F86 have continuously variable speed brake setting capability? Or is it an "on" and "off", or some other discrete rather than continuous arrangement. Because if it is discrete, not continuous, then i can see why an axis assignment might not be applicable, at least directly. If you wanted to use a lever (an axis) instead of switches or buttons you'd then have to program the axis to send those switch or button controls instead. That can also be done in FSUIPC, but it is done on the right-hand side of the Assignments tab, and there's no calibration involved.

... my FSUIPC version is the latest for this simulator: 3.99

Thank you.

Pete