PFC and fsuipc not working with NGX

[B773ER]

Pete,

Good day. I have the PFC throttle quadrant and jetliner yoke. For some reason the throttles will not go below around 42% after spending the auto throttle. As well I cannot get the gear or spoiler handle to work. I have used the PFC stuff since 2003 so I know how to set it up. This is the first time I have ever run into issues. My throttle axis is calibrated correctly as is everything else within the PFC UI. I have a few of the yoke buttons mapped through fsuipc and thats it. As well, there are people over in the pmdg ngx forum saying that you will not be able to run the ngx unless your hardware communicates directly with fsx. I am pretty sure the PFC stuff does not. There is a thread over there with PFC throttles in the title were other users are having the same issue. I am at my wits end as I am certainly not giving up my hardware for this plane. Do you have any suggestions? Should I try this LINDA software? Does it work with the PFC throttle console and yoke?

[Pete Dowson]

Good day. I have the PFC throttle quadrant and jetliner yoke.

Is this the older serial port version, using the PFCFSX.DLL driver I wrote, or the newer USB version?

For some reason the throttles will not go below around 42% after spending the auto throttle. As well I cannot get the gear or spoiler handle to work. I have used the PFC stuff since 2003 so I know how to set it up.

so, what's changed? Or do you mean this is only with the one aircraft, PMDG's 737NGX?

This is the first time I have ever run into issues. My throttle axis is calibrated correctly as is everything else within the PFC UI. I have a few of the yoke buttons mapped through fsuipc and thats it. As well, there are people over in the pmdg ngx forum saying that you will not be able to run the ngx unless your hardware communicates directly with fsx. I am pretty sure the PFC stuff does not. There is a thread over there with PFC throttles in the title were other users are having the same issue. I am at my wits end as I am certainly not giving up my hardware for this plane. Do you have any suggestions? Should I try this LINDA software? Does it work with the PFC throttle console and yoke?

I shouldn't think so.

Why not simply disable the axes in the PFC driver and assign and calibrate everything in FSUIPC? You can sort it that way as you can assign to whatever FS controls you like. You don't have that choice in the PFC driver as it was never necessary.

Regards

Pete

[B773ER]

Is this the older serial port version, using the PFCFSX.DLL driver I wrote, or the newer USB version?

so, what's changed? Or do you mean this is only with the one aircraft, PMDG's 737NGX?

I shouldn't think so.

Why not simply disable the axes in the PFC driver and assign and calibrate everything in FSUIPC? You can sort it that way as you can assign to whatever FS controls you like. You don't have that choice in the PFC driver as it was never necessary.

Regards

Pete

Pete,

It is the older serial port. I have a serial port to usb adapter to get it to work on my computer as it does not have a serial port.

Yes, this throttle not going below 42% is only with the ngx. All other aircraft I can go to idle thrust, 42% N1 is not idle thrust on the ngx. Couple other users reported this in the pmdg forum as well with the PFC throttles.

Do you think I would get better results mapping everything through fsuipc? According to pmdg mapping all your stuff through fsuipc will cause multiple control issues with the plane. I could try out though. Is there some instructions on how to map say the throttle ranges, toe brakes, etc.. through fsuipc our better yet, anyone have the pfc throttle console mapped through fsuipc and care to share their ini file?

Thanks

Eric

Edited August 9, 2011 by B773ER

[Pete Dowson]

Yes, this throttle not going below 42% is only with the ngx. All other aircraft I can go to idle thrust, 42% N1 is not idle thrust on the ngx. Couple other users reported this in the pmdg forum as well with the PFC throttles.

It's the way some aircraft have the throttles programmed. There are two distinct sets of FS throttle controls, one set runs from -16k to +16k, all forward thrust, no reverse, whilst the other set uses 0 - 16k for forward thrust and the negative part for reverse. The PFC driver has always opted to use the more flexible ones with the reverse range, and either provide reverse (the "ThrottleR" selections) or just forward using 0-16k (the more usual "Throttle" selections) so that separate Reversers can be assigned.

Do you think I would get better results mapping everything through fsuipc?

Well, for the throttles I think it's probably the only way. I don't know about the other things, but it's quite likely the 737NGX doesn't obey the FSX controls for those either. By assigning in FSUIPC you have the full range of its capabilities to choose from.

I've just tried my PFC quadrant on the NGX, and assigning to the FSX controls "Axis Throttle1 Set", and "Axis Throttle2 Set", then calibrating on the 4 throttles page in the Calibrations tab, you can have the full range, reverse included, on two levers, or use the "NRZ" (no reverse zone) option to just use the two for forward, and choose two other levers for reversers. For those you assign "direct to FSUIPC calibration" then calibrate in the 4 Reversers tab.

I've just checked all this and it works fine. You can probably do the same sort of thing for flaps and speedbrake.

According to pmdg mapping all your stuff through fsuipc will cause multiple control issues with the plane.

Really? Where do they get that idea from? And where will the additional control inputs come from? That doesn't make sense.

I could try out though. Is there some instructions on how to map say the throttle ranges, toe brakes, etc.. through fsuipc

Just make a user configuration in the PFC driver for the quadrant where none of the axes are assigned (i.e. untick the enabled check mark), and in FSUIPC make an aircraft-specific or profile for the PMDG aircraft, go to Axis assignments and assign the axes there. Calibrate in the calibration section. All this can be automatically enabled when you load that aircraft, just by making them aircraft-specific in both drivers.

There's lots of FSUIPC documentation -- it's all the same for the PFC axes and switches as for any other. If you assign buttons and switches in FSUIPC they'll override the normal PFC ones. Only the axes need de-selecting in the PFC driver, else they will conflict.

Regards

Pete

[B773ER]

Pete, thanks for the info. I will try the steps you have outlined. If you want a good idea of what others are saying about this issue, please see the following thread at the avsim forums beginning around post #12. http://forum.avsim.net/topic/342347-climb-performance-problems/page__view__findpost__p__2047928

Some of the posts dont pertain but a lot do. If you would be so gracious to read through that thread in full I believe you will come away with a better understanding of the problems some of us are having.

Regards,

Eric

Edited August 10, 2011 by B773ER

[Pete Dowson]

Pete, thanks for the info. I will try the steps you have outlined. If you want a good idea of what others are saying about this issue, please see the following thread at the avsim forums beginning around post #12. http://forum.avsim.n...ost__p__2047928

Some of the posts dont pertain but a lot do. If you would be so gracious to read through that thread in full I believe you will come away with a better understanding of the problems some of us are having.

Sorry, I do have enough to do here supporting my own programs. I've checked out the methods I stated with the PMDG 737NGX and they work fine. The PFC equipment has always interfaced to FSUIPC through the PFC drivers I provide (PFC.DLL, PFCFSX.DLL and PFCHID.DLL), but the latter are only designed for default aircraft -- and Project Magenta (the latter because PFC use PM in their jet cockpits). For other sophisticated add-on aircraft the PFC user is in exactly the same boat as those users with other add-on hardware, and should use the facilities of a registered install of FSUIPC to take full advantage.

If the other PFC users you mention need help with this, then the place for that is here. I'm not starting to support my programs on other Forums. That would turn into a never-ending and expanding task, and I am not going to embark upon it.

Regards

Pete

[B773ER]

Sounds good Pete, will try as you outlined above.

[THibben]

Hi Pete,

Let me elaborate a little on the PFC issue. First of all the PMDG issue on FSUIPC is quite clearly stated on pg. 20 & 21 in the introduction doc. They are basically saying they have had some issues between the 737NG and FSUIPC but these were cleared up by deleting the FSUIPC.cfg and letting it regenerate itself after instl of the 737NG. This cleared up most of the issues they had. They also indicate that in SOME instances calibration of some controller hardware was better using the controller calibration.

I have the PFC Jet Console and have the PFC 737NG throttle installed. Using the .dll you developed for PFC, and I am using the last release, I have been able calibrate the throttles and thrust reversers very nicely. My engines idle at 20%. I have not been able to get the spoiler or flap lever to work on the throttle quadrant or the gear lever to work on the Jet Console. The flap lever on the console will control the flaps. The weird thing with the gear lever is it uses the G command as it always has.

Any suggestions would be helpful and thanks for all you do,

Tom Hibben

PS: Hope you are clear of all the troubles around London

[THibben]

Hi Pete,

One additional item regarding USB vs Serial connection. I have a friend that was using a USB connection for his PFC equipment using a seriak to USB adapter. I was doing the same thing. We were both having crashes and lockups occasionally. We both installed a card in the computer with a serial port and have never had a problem since.

Tom

[B773ER]

Tom, based off what Pete is saying above, the PFC dll was only meant for default planes and we should be doing everything through fsuipc. I am starting now with doing that to see how it goes (keeping backups of what I had though!)

[Pete Dowson]

First of all the PMDG issue on FSUIPC is quite clearly stated on pg. 20 & 21 in the introduction doc. They are basically saying they have had some issues between the 737NG and FSUIPC but these were cleared up by deleting the FSUIPC.cfg and letting it regenerate itself after instl of the 737NG. This cleared up most of the issues they had. They also indicate that in SOME instances calibration of some controller hardware was better using the controller calibration.

Someone else quoted this too, and I replied thus:

"All that's talking about deleting your settings and re-doing assignments and calibrations to suit the NGX, because it just might be that your own axis calibrations and assignments may not suit the way the NGX is set up. All you really need to do is create a new Profile or Aircraft-specific set."

I think it's a bit drastic to delete all of your settings, which might include a lot of stuff which you've developed specifically to suit other aircraft, just to suit a new aircraft. A more sensible approach is to treat it as exactly that, another aircraft needing its own assignments and calibrations. This is why FSUIPC is replete with facilities for aircraft-specific or Profile related settings in the first place.

All PMDG are doing is putting all the work and responsibility back on the user because they don't want to be plagued with folks telling them they've got it wrong just because someone has made non-standard assignments or calibrations. You can't blame them, but please just treat it for what it is, a get-out clause. ;-).

I have the PFC Jet Console and have the PFC 737NG throttle installed. Using the .dll you developed for PFC, and I am using the last release, I have been able calibrate the throttles and thrust reversers very nicely. My engines idle at 20%. I have not been able to get the spoiler or flap lever to work on the throttle quadrant or the gear lever to work on the Jet Console. The flap lever on the console will control the flaps. The weird thing with the gear lever is it uses the G command as it always has.

Why is that weird? The "G" keypress is presumably being intercepted by the aircraft code. The PFC driver uses the FS controls, not keystrokes.

Just reassign things in FSUIPC to whatever the PMDG aircraft needs, as already suggested.

On your second message:

One additional item regarding USB vs Serial connection. I have a friend that was using a USB connection for his PFC equipment using a seriak to USB adapter.

There's a mixup here. Pretty much all new equipment made by PFC is USB native, not a serial adaptation but a HID ("Human Interface device") implementation. I wrote the driver, PFCHID.DLL for those new controllers, and that replaces the use of PFC.DLL or PFCFSX.DLL (though you can have both running if you have a mix of old and new, as I have). Unlike the serial port drivers, the USB HID one has no configuration or calibration facilities. It does default actions only. All differences have to be done in FSUIPC.

This way of implementing things allows me to concentrate on making FSUIPC do all the work and provide all the facilities whilst the PFC drivers do the interfacing. I don't see the point of duplicating lots of complicated user needs in both drivers and FSUIPC. And at least I do earn a little money for my time on FSUIPC.

... We were both having crashes and lockups occasionally. We both installed a card in the computer with a serial port and have never had a problem since.

Same here. Those adapters are pretty poor, especially the cheaper ones. I've got BrainBoxes PCI or PCI-Express serial port cards in all my PCs now.

Regards

Pete

[B773ER]

Pete, Believe or not I have everything working on the PFC console now. The only issue I have is the Spoiler handle on the PFC throttle console now has to operate backwards to work (pulling the lever to the up position on the console causes them to go down and vice-versa). I evidently screwed up something. I am still using the PFC FSX dll for throttles, reverse thrust, flaps and rudder trim. In order to get the spoilers and gear to work, I have them running through fsuipc. The gear is assinged under the button control and the spoilers under axis control. Can you please help me reverse the spoiler control. I see no way of deactivating the spoiler control through the PFC menu without disabling the whole console and I dont want to do that. Thanks.

This is what my ini file looks like for the relevant parts:

[buttons]

ButtonRepeat=20,10

1=H20,5,K145,8

3=P16,16,K79,10

4=P16,18,K71,8

6=U16,18,K71,8

[Axes]

0=0Y,256/1000,D,22,0,0,0

1=17X,512,D,22,0,0,0

[Pete Dowson]

Pete, Believe or not I have everything working on the PFC console now. The only issue I have is the Spoiler handle on the PFC throttle console now has to operate backwards to work (pulling the lever to the up position on the console causes them to go down and vice-versa).

You simply need to select the REVerse option, a checkbox. The same should actually apply to the Flaps.

I see no way of deactivating the spoiler control through the PFC menu without disabling the whole console and I dont want to do that.

For the quadrant axes, to have any disabled, you must either select an existing configuration without that lever assigned or, more flexibly, use one of the User Configurations. Those allow you to assign whatever you like to each lever and enable/disable each at will.

Regards

Pete

[B773ER]

You simply need to select the REVerse option, a checkbox. The same should actually apply to the Flaps.

For the quadrant axes, to have any disabled, you must either select an existing configuration without that lever assigned or, more flexibly, use one of the User Configurations. Those allow you to assign whatever you like to each lever and enable/disable each at will.

Regards

Pete

Pete, I am not seeing a REV checkbox within FSUIPC's Axis Assignment tab? I do see it within the PFC menu but I now have the spoilers set up via FSUIPC and not through the PFC.dll anymore. That was the only way to get the to work. I now have User Configuration set up with just the two throttles and Reverse thrust handle in use, no spoilers due to being run through fsuipc now.

[Pete Dowson]

Pete, I am not seeing a REV checkbox within FSUIPC's Axis Assignment tab?

Not in assignments. Assignments is where you assign axes. Please CALIBRATE. That's what the joystick calibration tab is for. Calibration includes setting the range, the dead zones, the reversal, when needed. All that stuff. It all applies no matter where the axes are assigned, in FSUIPC or FSX.

Regards

Pete

[THibben]

Hi Eric,

I don't understand what your button assignments are. Could you tell me which button each refers to? I also don't understand what each series of letters/numbers means.

Actually I don't understand much of what you have accomplished. (grin) Any help would be appreciated. Also I assume you just have the standard PFC console that the throttle quadrant bolts to and not the Jet Console.

Thanks,

Tom

[Pete Dowson]

I don't understand what your button assignments are. Could you tell me which button each refers to? I also don't understand what each series of letters/numbers means.

The format is described in the Advanced User's guide -- those are all to key presses -- but it is easier to simply do the assignments in the FSUIPC options dialogue.

Regards

Pete