CH Throttle Quadrant and Obtaining Full Reverse

[antney]

I have read the manual and research a few older posts on the CH help in this forum. I am on FSX, FSUIPC 4.749e and fly mainly PMDG NGX and other comemrcial jets for my set up. Here is my problem.

- I set up all my throttle axis in the axis assignment and click on "send direct to FSUIPC Calibration" "throttle 1"

- All my joysticks are disabled in FSX

- When I go to the joystick calibration page 3 I have set up my values according to the manual, here are how they are set for throttle 1

Reverse- -16384, idle -14,432 & -13,522 and max at 16383

The idle numbers are where my detent is, some of the pdf examples show closer to 0 and positive numbers but on my quadrant that is about 1/2 way on full throttle.

My problem is when I get to the detent and try to go to full reverse the engines do not spool up in 100% full reverse, they only go in about 40% if that and not the same every time.

I have 2 questions

1- How do I get full reverse with the levers all the way back?

2- When I set up my axis assignment what is the difference in going with "Direct to FSUIPC Calibration" over "Send FS as a normal axis"? Reason I ask is that for the Wilco Buses they like seeing the "Axis Throttle# Set" which is not available in "Direct to FSUIPC Calibration" This is just out of curosity.

Appreciate on any insight.

[Pete Dowson]

- When I go to the joystick calibration page 3 I have set up my values according to the manual, here are how they are set for throttle 1

Reverse- -16384, idle -14,432 & -13,522 and max at 16383

Those -16384 and +16383 values are actually beyond default minimum and maximum and in fact are the most extreme values possible on the most perfect axis. Perhaps your device is so perfect, but you would still be better off calibrating the extremes with the lever moved AWAY from the end stops, so you can always reach full thrust or deflection.

My problem is when I get to the detent and try to go to full reverse the engines do not spool up in 100% full reverse, they only go in about 40% if that and not the same every time.

That indicates that your axis is not always or not often reaching the -16384 value. Check your forward max thrust too -- I expect the same applies there! Axis inputs vary, especially at the extremes. Allow a little room at both ends as I say.

what is the difference in going with "Direct to FSUIPC Calibration" over "Send FS as a normal axis"?

Sending direct avoids posting a message to FS merely so that FSUIPC can trap it and alter the value via calibration before sending it on. By sending direct FSUIPC calibrates immediately then sends it to FS only once. In general it is better, but as you say some add-on aircraft need to see the FS controls. That's why there's a choice.

The FSUIPC assignment to an FS control actually gives you no benefits over having the assignment to the same control in FS -- FSUIPC's calibration is identical in both cases. The only advantages then in FSUIPC assignments is that there are more FS controls on offer than in FS, and the assignments can be automatically switched for different aircraft or aircraft profiles.

Pete

[antney]

Thanks for the response Pete but when I place my thorrtle 1 level in the detent area I get a range of IN=-14,432 and OUT=0. All 4 throttles rand from -14,432 to -1,056.

I tried placing the throttle away from full ranges to calibrate this way but my problem still doesn't get full reverse. If I set the idle higher to get the full reverse my idle is not in the detents.

Is there a way I can keep my axis the way it is for full throttle where the detent will be idle and then when I go behind the detent I can trigger a button (F2) for full reverse?

[Pete Dowson]

Thanks for the response Pete but when I place my thorrtle 1 level in the detent area I get a range of IN=-14,432 and OUT=0. All 4 throttles rand from -14,432 to -1,056.

If the total range is -14432 to -1056, how on Earth are you calibrating min and max to -16384 and +16383? You aren't making sense I'm afraid.

I tried placing the throttle away from full ranges to calibrate this way but my problem still doesn't get full reverse. If I set the idle higher to get the full reverse my idle is not in the detents.

That makes no sense either. Is your detente inside the range of axis movement, or at one end? If it's anything like the Saitek throttles there is no reverse range in any case. You can't use the axis for reverse in that case if you want the idle at a detente which is right at one end!

Is there a way I can keep my axis the way it is for full throttle where the detent will be idle and then when I go behind the detent I can trigger a button (F2) for full reverse?

That's how it is done on the Saitek throttles. But do you have such buttons on the CH?

Pete

[antney]

the ch throttle quadrant has a detent in the throttle axis.

I guess I am not coming across clearly so let me try this again.

I set my throttle quadrant with the axis assignment in FSUIPC to send to FS as a normal axis so I can have my set up the same for PMDG, LDS and Wilco.

The top box in this section shows the following values....

Delta- 256

In (when thorrle full forward) 16,383, out 16128 (these are what my system gives so if this is perfect, I have perfect!)

Throttle full aft, In= -16384, out= -16384

I have the check box to select "Axis Throttle# set

After I set each of the 4 throttle quadrants I go to the Joystick Calibration and go to page 3.

This is what I have under Throttle 1 Section

Throttle 1------Reverse--------Idle---------Max

Reset-----------(-16,123)---(-15,213)---15,104 Now the max and reverse numbers were achieved by not placing my throttle full forward or full aft, I moved it away.

---------------------------------(-14,433)

None of the check boxes are checked, filter, rev, exclude throttlen_set.

My problem still exists, moving the throttle full forward works perfect, when I get to put the throttle fully aft I do not get full reverse thrust on the aircraft.

Maybe this is just not possible to get full reverse with CH Throttle Quadrant, my suggestion was then if I set up my throttle quadrant to just be idle to full thrust there is a button under each throttle lever, you can click it up or down, if I can just click it down and that triggers F2 for full reverse if repeated.

[Pete Dowson]

Throttle 1------Reverse--------Idle---------Max

Reset-----------(-16,123)---(-15,213)---15,104 Now the max and reverse numbers were achieved by not placing my throttle full forward or full aft, I moved it away.

---------------------------------(-14,433)

That looks a lot more sensible.

My problem still exists, moving the throttle full forward works perfect, when I get to put the throttle fully aft I do not get full reverse thrust on the aircraft.

Well you should -- if the throttle axis IN value reaches -16123 or less then the OUT will be sufficient to get full reverse as specified in the Aircraft.CFG file -- usually -4096 or 25%. What does the OUT value show in the calibration tab when the IN value is -16123 or less?

suggestion was then if I set up my throttle quadrant to just be idle to full thrust there is a button under each throttle lever, you can click it up or down, if I can just click it down and that triggers F2 for full reverse if repeated.

Yes, you can do that if you prefer. As I said, that is generally how folks use the Saitek throttles.

Regards

Pete

[Ian P]

If you do decide to follow the option of using "Decrease throttle fast" with repeat to get reverse thrust, in my experience, it's worth setting the "On release" option to be "Throttle Idle" as well, because FSX sometimes doesn't seem to see the throttle moving out of the reverse detent until you are actually applying quite a lot of forward thrust instead. It seems to be an FSX thing rather than the throttle quad itself, because a similar arrangement works fine on other sims.

By setting the "on release" function to be F1, the moment you move the throttle(s) out of the reverse detent, the engine is returned to idle thrust and then recognises forward movement correctly.

Ian P.

[antney]

That looks a lot more sensible.

Well you should -- if the throttle axis IN value reaches -16123 or less then the OUT will be sufficient to get full reverse as specified in the Aircraft.CFG file -- usually -4096 or 25%. What does the OUT value show in the calibration tab when the IN value is -16123 or less?

Yes, you can do that if you prefer. As I said, that is generally how folks use the Saitek throttles.

Regards

Pete

Well, when I have my throttle full aft which is in the reverse range the values under the reset button are.... IN -16384 and OUT -4096. When I go in full reverse it doesnt give me full reverse, sometimes it will give me some and others nothing. The light shows up above N1 stating the rev is open but N1 doesnt increase.

[antney]

If you do decide to follow the option of using "Decrease throttle fast" with repeat to get reverse thrust, in my experience, it's worth setting the "On release" option to be "Throttle Idle" as well, because FSX sometimes doesn't seem to see the throttle moving out of the reverse detent until you are actually applying quite a lot of forward thrust instead. It seems to be an FSX thing rather than the throttle quad itself, because a similar arrangement works fine on other sims.

By setting the "on release" function to be F1, the moment you move the throttle(s) out of the reverse detent, the engine is returned to idle thrust and then recognises forward movement correctly.

Ian P.

To set this option should everything be down under the button and key section? I calibrated my throttle axis under page 3 but with no reverse zone and then went to buttons and keys section selected a button and placed it in the drop down box "control sent when button pressed" and selected "Throttle # Decr" and selected the check box "control to repeat while held"

Would you set it up differently?

[Ian P]

If you are using individual throttles per engine then yes, the commands would be "Throttle # Decr" using the button commands. Personally, I use "Throttle # Decr Fast" (the exact wording may be slightly different, I'm not on my FS PC to check), but both should work.

The only addition I have, as I said above, is that on button release, I have "Throttle # Idle" set without the repeat box ticked. Without that, I sometimes needed a lot of forward throttle movement to get FSX out of reverse thrust.

Once you hit the idle detent on a Saitek quad then there is no further analogue movement detected - below that, the lever only activates a button. This is different from the CH TQ, where the rotary movement continues in addition to activating a button at idle plus a button in the reverse detent.

All the best,

Ian P.

[Pete Dowson]

Well, when I have my throttle full aft which is in the reverse range the values under the reset button are.... IN -16384 and OUT -4096. When I go in full reverse it doesnt give me full reverse, sometimes it will give me some and others nothing. The light shows up above N1 stating the rev is open but N1 doesnt increase.

If FSUIPC is sending -4096 and that doesn't set full reverse on your specific aircraft then there's something wrong with the aircraft. FSUIPC scales that -4096 value according to the maximum reverse thrust value given in the Aircraft.cfg file. This is the parameter which matters:

[GeneralEngineData]

min_throttle_limit=-0.25 //Minimum percent throttle.

If that's 0 then the aircraft provides no reverse thrust. A negative value gives the proportion of full thrust (1) which applies in reverse, so -0.25 is 25%. the internal throttle vlaues are scaled 0 - 16384, so a -25% value is -4096. Some aircraft have more, some less.

Use FSUIPC's axis logging to see what throttle values it is actually sending to the aircraft. Maybe the minimum input FSUIPC receives from your throttle axis isn't -16384 every time. For max reverse it needs to be at least as low as the calibrated minimum.

Regards

Pete

[pilotjohn]

If you are using individual throttles per engine then yes, the commands would be "Throttle # Decr" using the button commands. Personally, I use "Throttle # Decr Fast" (the exact wording may be slightly different, I'm not on my FS PC to check), but both should work.

The only addition I have, as I said above, is that on button release, I have "Throttle # Idle" set without the repeat box ticked. Without that, I sometimes needed a lot of forward throttle movement to get FSX out of reverse thrust.

Once you hit the idle detent on a Saitek quad then there is no further analogue movement detected - below that, the lever only activates a button. This is different from the CH TQ, where the rotary movement continues in addition to activating a button at idle plus a button in the reverse detent.

All the best,

Ian P.

I decided to use the full range of the axes for both forward and reverse. Under normal flight conditions the axes act from idle to full forward thrust. However, when a button is pressed the throttle range becomes a reverse range acting from idle to full reverse, and it toggles back to forward when it's brought near idle again. You can find my script for this in the User Contribution sub-forum.

As you're landing, you will bring your throttle to idle. You can then switch to reverse using a button (such as the detent below the idle gate on the Saitek) and then push the throttles full forward again which will provide you with reverse thrust until you slow down. Then as you bring the reverse back to idle again, it will automatically switch to forward thrust again. There also audio feedback so you know that you've switched to reverse or forward.