Aircraft seperation

[bazvink]

Ok, so I've been playing Tower for a while and have an observation/question. I've been playing KLAX mainly and having problems with departing aircraft not being separated enough. My usual tactic is to try to alternate departures between 24L and 25R, but if I mistime it, two aircraft sometimes end up within 1000ft and I get a seperation fault. So far no problem.

Then I watched someone playing Tower on YouTube and I noticed that he was departing a/c from both 24L and 25R with hardly any pause between them. And he wasn't getting seperation errors. The only difference I could see with my way was that he was making sure the first departure was handed off to departure before the next one showed up on DBRITE, whereas I tend to keep control until the a/c is at least 1000ft above the runway.

So the obvious question is: why am I getting seperation faults and the YouTube guy not? Does handing a/c off to departure as soon as they hit DBRITE help to prevent faults?

[FS1TR]

For departures from 25R, I issue the command "After departure fly heading 235" Then Cleared for take off.  For 24L use heading 265.  This insures that there is no conflict.

[bazvink]

And that works? Because I use the same technique (headings 360 and 180) and still get the conflict of the first hasn't started turning on time.

The Youtuber wasn't doing any sort of turning whatsoever, btw.

I'm going to do some experimenting later today.

[FS1TR]

Works for me. 

[bazvink]

So I did some experimenting and played a round where the only thing I did was clear departures north and south (360 be 24L and 180 for 25R) and only made sure that by the time a plane appeared on EBRITE, the preceding plane was handed off.

Seems to work pretty well. I had no conflicts and was able to send off planes faster than normal.

So seems to work.

[pdxpilot06]

If I issue these turn instructions to departures will the aircraft on 25R make a left turn and aircraft on 24L make a right turn? I have used "turn left/right ### degrees" to ensure aircraft don't turn towards each other. This requires more attention to departures and distance from the runway but is also more realistic since RW LAX departures do not turn before the shoreline.

Using the "after departure fly heading ###" instruction, what happens if you need to issue a go around instruction to an arrival? I don't think runway heading is accepted as a valid heading to fly (although it should). It seems that you would lose minimum separation between the departure and arrival on the same runway: for example, 25R departure is instructed to fly heading 235 after departure. Thr aircraft will start the turn immediately once airborne. If the 25L arrival on runway heading has to go around there could be a conflict with the turning departure. Same with the 24 departure turning right to heading 265 once airborne and the arrival on runway heading going around. What is the right solution here?

[mc16v]

If you have to issue a go-around (which should be very rare at LAX with the seperate landing and departing runways) you can assign a heading to avoid other a/c.

 

You should plan and time so you do not have this eventually, do not clear a departure if an arrival may conflict. Aircraft in the air have priority over aircraft on the ground, Once you get a routine going it becomes quite easy to manage.

 

With fly xyz heading after departure the ac will turn the most direct route to the assigned heading. if 360, then it will turn right, if 180 then left, it makes no difference which runway they are on.

 

Gareth

[GooberGrape]

If you have to issue a go-around (which should be very rare at LAX with the seperate landing and departing runways) you can assign a heading to avoid other a/c.

 

You should plan and time so you do not have this eventually, do not clear a departure if an arrival may conflict. Aircraft in the air have priority over aircraft on the ground, Once you get a routine going it becomes quite easy to manage.

 

With fly xyz heading after departure the ac will turn the most direct route to the assigned heading. if 360, then it will turn right, if 180 then left, it makes no difference which runway they are on.

 

Gareth

 

I'm curious about your "...with separate landing and departing runways" comment and wondered if you could explain it further please.  I have found no way to force arrivals to a certain runway and it seems as if it is completely random in my experience.  I can certainly direct aircraft to a specific runway for departure and do that regularly.  Is there a setting I'm missing, or could you explain how you make this departure scenario work on your end?  Thanks very much.

[FS1TR]

When you first open Tower at LAX you see a picture of the runways with what looks like buttons on them.  Click on 24R and 25L.  This will force all arrivals to one of those Runways.  In game you now send all departures to 24L or 25R.  If while playing, an aircraft arrives on 24R that would be more convenient on 25L you can issue the command "Enter final Runway 25L."