Circuit Traffic in Tower 3d Pro

[Sovereign]

Hi Folks, I did a few searches and didn't really find any that dealt specifically with this, so I figured I'd give it a shot.

Does anyone understand how aircraft fly the circuit when given that instruction? When I give them the command, they'll do the circuit at 1500 (unlike the standard 1000) and I have had wildly different results from aircraft to aircraft, with no discernible pattern that I can find. I've had them turn onto the downwind and just fly forever. I've had them do a turn in the wrong direction and just do circles (i.e. left circuit they will enter a right had orbit) I have had a couple turn onto a very long final, we're talking like 5 miles or so which for the circuit is nuts. Also, inbound traffic on final will often come too close and you get a penalty for loss of separation even though this scenario happens regularly at airports all over the world.

So, what I'm trying to figure out is: Is there something I'm doing wrong? Or is the circuit in tower3d Pro basically broken?

 

Thanks folks!

Happy controlling!

[rameus]

I use the "pattern" from time to time, which I think is what you're talking about. I'll use it when ground traffic or a forgotten departure would result in an incursion or other hazards (e.g. simulated emergencies, etc). It starts by instructing the pilot to ENTER RIGHT/LEFT PATTERN RUNWAY xx. Then depending upon inbound traffic I may extend their downwind track which I've had most success in 5 mile increments if necessary (which I think the default is for them to turn back onto runway heading automatically at 10 mi out?). You can extend their downwind multiple times provided you do it before they start their turn onto the base. I've never tried extending the upwind.

If traffic is continuous I'll manually pull them off the pattern and route them to a different runway or make my own perpendicular circuit about 15 miles out and then try to reintegrate them onto final. By the way, if you pull them off the pattern, you must instruct them to ENTER FINAL RUNWAY xx otherwise they will miss the runway (even if you set them on the right heading). You still have to give them clearance to land, even if they stay in the pattern.

Hope that helps!

Rameus

[Sovereign]

On 12/30/2018 at 10:52 PM, rameus said:

I use the "pattern" from time to time, which I think is what you're talking about. I'll use it when ground traffic or a forgotten departure would result in an incursion or other hazards (e.g. simulated emergencies, etc). It starts by instructing the pilot to ENTER RIGHT/LEFT PATTERN RUNWAY xx. Then depending upon inbound traffic I may extend their downwind track which I've had most success in 5 mile increments if necessary (which I think the default is for them to turn back onto runway heading automatically at 10 mi out?). You can extend their downwind multiple times provided you do it before they start their turn onto the base. I've never tried extending the upwind.

If traffic is continuous I'll manually pull them off the pattern and route them to a different runway or make my own perpendicular circuit about 15 miles out and then try to reintegrate them onto final. By the way, if you pull them off the pattern, you must instruct them to ENTER FINAL RUNWAY xx otherwise they will miss the runway (even if you set them on the right heading). You still have to give them clearance to land, even if they stay in the pattern.

Hope that helps!

Rameus

So just to clarify, 3 questions:

1) When you put them in the pattern your experience has been that they will turn final on their own?

2) If they are on a downwind do you not get loss of separation penalties with other inbound traffic on final?

3) If you give the instruction to ENTER FINAL RUNWAY xx do they not go way out as far as the radar goes and climb back to 3000'?

It's definitely not an instruction issue, I get how to issue the circuit pattern instructions, it's just that I've had them do unexpected things after having given circuit instructions (which have been read back correctly)

 

Thanks for the help!

[rameus]

1) Yes, they will turn back onto the runway heading after following the base leg of the pattern, automatically; even if you extend their downwind. When they contact you, xx WITH YOU, they are already on final approach. Putting them into the game's Pattern doesn't change that unless you direct them to an alternate heading, TURN LEFT/RIGHT xx DEGREES, for example. In that case you will have to put them back on final approach for a runway of your choosing.

2) You'll receive a penalty if they are within close proximity of another airborne aircraft at anytime they are in the pattern, including when turning back onto the runway heading (this also includes other aircraft flying near the airport, e.g. on takeoff). As far as the game is concerned, this is where the extend downwind command is useful - to ensure good separation with other aircraft inbound on the same runway. There's probably more than one kind of penalty that could occur here besides the air collision penalty? Simply putting them into the pattern with no other traffic does not incur a penalty. The extend upwind command could be used to avoid traffic near the departing end of the runway.

3) Yes, they will do this when given that command. Remember, there's no need to issue that command when they are in the pattern. That is, I've never seen them not turn onto the base and then onto the runway heading. I would expect that if you instruct them to extend the downwind by 50 miles you'd get an unhandled aircraft penalty, but I've never tried that.

If I'm going to have to use ENTER FINAL RUNWAY xx I'll manually direct their course to a position 25 to 30 miles out to minimize the number of turns they'll have to do by themselves, reducing the risk they come too close to another inbound or outbound aircraft. Also if you direct them to make a turn at anytime, they'll no longer be on final approach.

[Sovereign]

That's so strange, I ALWAYS get an air collision penalty. My game simply insists that an aircraft on downwind is laterally too close in proximity to an aircraft on final it seems. Also, I've rarely had them turn from downwind to base, they'll do all kinds of weird stuff... but rarely turn base.

Thanks for the responses though, it's interesting that I'm getting such strangely different results.

[pete_agreatguy]

I've had major issues with the traffic pattern never doing what I want it to do (what an aircraft is meant to do).

It is best to just give a missed approach or published missed approach aircraft a "contact departure" command and let the "departure" controller bring it around again.

If you try to use the traffic pattern it causes mayhem with your other traffic because you cannot control the aircraft's speed on approach or it's height during the traffic pattern (crosswind, downwind, base and finals).