Turboprop Throttle Lever Movement When Trim Button Pressed

[maxam]

Hello Pete,

In my FSUIPC5.ini I have 2 hardware devices listed in Prepar3D v4.5

[JoyNames]

2=CH THROTTLE QUADRANT
2.GUID={4D0F4C20-9F5A-11E6-8001-444553540000}
4=Iris Dynamics Yoke
4.GUID={785ACF10-9B8D-11E6-8001-444553540000}

With the Modules folder placed in the main root of Prepar3D v4.5 the throttle 2 lever on any 2 engine turboprop aircraft (3rd party or default Lockheed Electra) moves when the trim axis is moved up and down using the force feedback yoke. I do not have any calibration programs for the CH Throttle nor is there anything other than the Windows Force Feedback driver installed.

With the Modules folder removed the behavior stops.  For testing I switched between the 2 buttons on my yoke, I removed everything other than buttons and levers that are part of the issue below, the entire FSUIPC5.ini is attached:

[Buttons]
PollInterval=25
ButtonRepeat=20,10
1=R4,2,C65607,0     -{ELEV_TRIM_DN}-
2=U4,2,C65607,0     -{ELEV_TRIM_DN}-
3=P4,3,C65615,0     -{ELEV_TRIM_UP}-
4=U4,3,C65615,0     -{ELEV_TRIM_UP}-

[Axes.Bombardier Q400]
RangeRepeatRate=10
2=2X,256,D,9,0,0,0    -{ DIRECT: Throttle1 }-
3=2Y,256,D,10,0,0,0    -{ DIRECT: Throttle2 }-

[Buttons.Bombardier Q400]
0=P4,2,C65607,0     -{ELEV_TRIM_DN}-
1=P4,3,C65615,0     -{ELEV_TRIM_UP}-

Any ideas on this one?

Thank you,

Robert

FSUIPC5.ini

[John Dowson]

Hi Robert,

can you check that you have controllers disabled in P3D please.

Can you also activate logging for 'Buttons and key operations', 'Events (non-axis controls) and 'Axis controls' (from the FSUIPC logging tab), and provide the FSUIPC5.log file exhibiting your problem.

Cheers,

John

[maxam]

Hello John,

Thank you for your reply.  Controllers disabled in P3D.

This is the CH Throttle Quadrant. The Throttle2 values changed since I posted earlier, Throttle2 max (direct) is now 8333, when I pull back on Throttle2 the max setting changes to 16383 around 1/4 of the way back.  

I have activated logging. Starting with the event pressing elevator trim down, throttle 2 is triggered while in full forward position, max is only 8474.  (Throttle2=-16384,-11665,-7471,8474)

  167563 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 65607 (0x00010047), Param= 0 (0x00000000) ELEV_TRIM_DN
  167594 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 15791 (0x00003daf) THROTTLE2_SET

A bit later I tried the same with throttle 1 in full forward position, Throttle1 does not move when pressing trim button on yoke:

   190484 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 65615 (0x0001004f), Param= 0 (0x00000000) ELEV_TRIM_UP
   190641 Button changed: bRef=0, Joy=4, Btn=3, Released
   293891 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 363 (0x0000016b) THROTTLE1_SET

It looks like I have to purchase a replacement throttle quadrant.

Thank you for looking.

Robert

FSUIPC5.log

[Pete Dowson]

9 hours ago, maxam said:

Controllers disabled in P3D.

Do you perhaps have the CH manager software running, because the logs indicate that FSUIPC isn't sending this. To prove this perhaps you can unassign it in FSUIPC, for the Profile you are using.

Another check, to see if it is something your quadrant is doing, got into the FSUIPC Axis Assignments tab and see if Throttle2 is registered as changing there when you press those buttons assigned to trim.  If any axis is jittering a little use to button at the top to ignore it, until you either have none indicated on only throttle 2.

10 hours ago, maxam said:

I have activated logging. Starting with the event pressing elevator trim down, throttle 2 is triggered while in full forward position, max is only 8474.  (Throttle2=-16384,-11665,-7471,8474)

The INI you supplied shows:

Throttle2=-16253,-11665,-6947,12570

Have you re-calibrated? Shouldn't you reverse the throttles (REV checkbox) -- full forward is full thrust, but most quadrants produce the max value when pulled back. I'm pretty sure the CH one isn't any different.

Pete

 

 

 

[maxam]

1 hour ago, Pete Dowson said:

Do you perhaps have the CH manager software running, because the logs indicate that FSUIPC isn't sending this. To prove this perhaps you can unassign it in FSUIPC, for the Profile you are using.

Another check, to see if it is something your quadrant is doing, got into the FSUIPC Axis Assignments tab and see if Throttle2 is registered as changing there when you press those buttons assigned to trim.  If any axis is jittering a little use to button at the top to ignore it, until you either have none indicated on only throttle 2.

The INI you supplied shows:

Throttle2=-16253,-11665,-6947,12570

Have you re-calibrated? Shouldn't you reverse the throttles (REV checkbox) -- full forward is full thrust, but most quadrants produce the max value when pulled back. I'm pretty sure the CH one isn't any different.

Pete

 

 

 

Hi Pete,

Uninstalled CH Manager a long time ago, checked and registry is clear of any CH listing. I plugged the CH Throttle into another USB port and it was recognized by windows device manager. I think the Throttle Quadrant is starting to fail, the Prop pitch1 and Prop pitch2 using direct do not move fully to the rear stop. There is extreme fluttering when moving the axis forward and back.

I just discovered something, I removed all yoke assignments and when I pressed the trim switch in the aircraft cockpit the Throttle2 lever makes the same un-commanded movement.  So then the "issue" must be in the coding of the Carenado SF340 aircraft.

Upon restarting my simulator this morning Throttle2 axis range are the in the "normal" range again: Throttle2=-16384,-11665,-6947,16383

Just need to clarify regarding the comment about "throttles (REV checkbox) -- most quadrants produce the max value when pulled back"

- pulled back from the full stop (forward position) or all the way to the rear full stop position?  

In FSUIPC Joystick Calibration the Throttle1 and Throttle2 full forward positon is 16383

I can only assign Max throttle on Throttle1 when REV checkbox is applied, cannot assign Reverse or Idle otherwise I hear the Windows chime error sound and the numerical value is not assigned.  Without the REV checked I can assign the throttles Reverse - Idle - Max

I will check with the CH forums and see if there is any information on how to service the Throttle Quadrant. I saw a post by Ray Proudfoot regarding the Virtual Fly All-Metal TQ6+ Throttle Quadrant that is equipped with "Hall Effect Magnetic Sensors."  The only issue is that it is a true copy of a 2 engine turboprop unit and cannot be converted for use with other types of mutli engine aircraft.

Thank you both for your help so far.

Regards,
Robert

 

[Pete Dowson]

3 hours ago, maxam said:

Just need to clarify regarding the comment about "throttles (REV checkbox) -- most quadrants produce the max value when pulled back"

- pulled back from the full stop (forward position) or all the way to the rear full stop position?  

Just that they mostly seem to be arranged to give their max output at the opposite end of the movement to their minimum output. Not always, though, i know. The fact that there's an interim detente on yours won't change that, it is just an interim value.

The fact that you've been happily using yours as they are calibrated must mean that my question doesn't apply in this case.

3 hours ago, maxam said:

In FSUIPC Joystick Calibration the Throttle1 and Throttle2 full forward positon is 16383

Yes, that's what you want for the OUTPUT, so that's okay.

3 hours ago, maxam said:

I can only assign Max throttle on Throttle1 when REV checkbox is applied, cannot assign Reverse or Idle otherwise I hear the Windows chime error sound and the numerical value is not assigne

You misunderstand the meanings of the calibration values. The left most one, marked "minimum" means the minimum input value, not the minimum result. You must always calibrate with each box to the right higher than the one to the left -- i.e. in order -- because FSUIPC cann't correct for out-of-order values. The two centre values, denoting the idle zone usually, can be either way around -- it is their difference that matters. But both must be lower of equal to the Maximum, and greater or equal to the Minimum.

The beep just means you have the order wrong, not obeying these rules. You normally need to Reset and reset when selecting REV to avoid this.

Pete

 

[maxam]

Hello Pete,

It appears the instruction on calibration seems to have resolved the Throttle2 movement when the trim switch in the cockpit is pressed.

In this case the new calibration is as follows:

Throttle1=-16249, -13967,-7252,-2417 

Throttle2=-16384,-11665,-6947,-2359

The throttle levers still move smoothly past -2417 and -2359 respectively to the full forward position right to the stop, I have not calibrated that way before, always moving the lever to the full forward stop to 16384 and making that the Max setting. I think what I will do is perform an uninstall/reinstall of FSUIPC and start over remembering to calibrate this way. 

I will read the manual again.

Thank you for your help.

Robert

[John Dowson]

No need to uninstall/reinstall - just rename your ini file (with p3d closed). When you restart, a new one with default values will be generated.Or see P47 of User Guide - 'Resetting Defaults'.

Cheers,

John

[maxam]

Thank you John, will do.

Robert

[maxam]

Hello Pete and John,

The issue is still present, the only way not to induce movement of the Throttle2 axis is to set elevator trim via Prepar3D controller key assignment settings. There is something definitely strange going on between the CH Controller and FSUIPC.  It does not matter if I set the trim button sitch on a yoke, throttle quadrant or even pressing the switch in the virtual cockpit, the Throttle2 lever moves. I switched the lever assignments around between Throttle and Prop Pitch, there was a small incremental movement of the Throttle2 lever.

523282 FS Control Sent: Ctrl=65607, Param=0 ELEV_TRIM_DN
523282 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 65607 (0x00010047), Param= 0 (0x00000000) ELEV_TRIM_DN
523297 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= -96 (0xffffffa0) THROTTLE2_SET

I am going to write to CH and inquire as to whether a failing potentiometer could be part of the issue, but that still does not explain why Throttle2 only moves in this instance.

Robert