Thrust reversers in PMDG's NGXu 737's

[hvw]

Since PMDG's Boeing 737 NGXu's series was released I am running into a problem with my Thrustmaster's HOTAS reverse thrust. When applying full reverse thrust with the Thrustmaster, throttle full backwards, the maximum N1% REV in the 737s reaches a maximum of 102.1 %, which is way too strong for the 737s. PMDG claims that maximum N1% REV in the 737s is limited to a maximum of 78%. When I use the F2 key for reverse thrust indeed the maximum percentage of N1 REV I can reach is around 80%. The ~80% max N1% REV in the PMDGs is delimited by the EEEC. Is it possible that fsuipc overrides the EEC? Or/and can you advise me what I can do to have fsuipc set a delimiter of ~80% max N1% REV? Attached a screenshot of my throttle settings in fsuipc.

Thanks,
Hans van WIjhe

[Thomas Richter]

Hi,

FSUIPC doesn't or cannot overrides aircraft settings. In the way you set up your axis (has to be that way), FSUIPC sends the axis value direct to FS as it would be set up in FS direct.

Looks more like the limit is maybe only applied to key input, special as it worked with the previous version?

Thomas

[hvw]

Thanks, Thomas. I will pursue this issue further with PMDG.

Hans

[hvw]

Pete,,

Is there a way that I can delimit full reverse thrust in FSUIPC to be at a maximum of 84% N1 REV in PMDG's NGXu's? When I use P3D's own axis setting for full reverse thrust with my Thrustmaster HOTAS indeed maximum N1% REV does not exceed 84% N1, however, using P3D axis control for my Thrustmaster is not feasible as I then only can use the throttle for either forward or reverse thrust. As things are now, using FSUIPC's throttle setting for reverse thrust (see gpic above), is hardly possible. It would be great  when I pull my TM's throttle all the way back (i.e. full reverse thrust) only a maximum of 84% N1 REV in PMSG's NGXu would be achieved.

Thanks,

Hans van Wijhe

[Pete Dowson]

58 minutes ago, hvw said:

Is there a way that I can delimit full reverse thrust in FSUIPC to be at a maximum of 84% N1 REV in PMDG's NGXu's? When I use P3D's own axis setting for full reverse thrust with my Thrustmaster HOTAS indeed maximum N1% REV does not exceed 84% N1, however, using P3D axis control for my Thrustmaster is not feasible as I then only can use the throttle for either forward or reverse thrust. As things are now, using FSUIPC's throttle setting for reverse thrust (see gpic above), is hardly possible. It would be great  when I pull my TM's throttle all the way back (i.e. full reverse thrust) only a maximum of 84% N1 REV in PMSG's NGXu would be achieved.

FSUIPC reads the % max for reverse from P3D, and that comes from the Aircraft.CFG file.  Check the value there. For example, this line in the [GeneralEngineData] section (this is a typical default value):

min_throttle_limit = -0.25;           //Minimum percent throttle.  Generally negative for turbine reverser

For my ProSim 737-800 the line is:

min_throttle_limit = -0.3416       //Minimum percent throttle.  Generally negative for turbine reverser

This really should be correct in the PMDG NGXu already, but check that and try a different value.

Otherwise, to limit the range on a calibrated FSUIPC axis you would need to change the end point values in the Calibration lines to unachievable value, e.g. less that -16384 for the minimum (more than +16383 for the maximum.

But really the proper control over max reverse thrust is that parameter in its Aircraft.CFG.

Pete

 

[hvw]

Thanks a lot, Pete. 

I'm not at the computer now, but will give it a shot later today and will keep you posted.

Best,
Hans

[hvw]

Pete,

Unfortunately changing the min_throttle_limit parameter to any negative value, I tried several low and high ones, didn't have any affect at all. Could this be due to the fact that the throttle on the Thrustmaster HOTAS works via the Z-axis? In the calibration screen of FSUIPC the throttle is not being recognized. However, it is being recognized in the Axis Assignment section. 

In P3D's calibration screen I do see a separate entry for throttle calibration, hence my above remark. When I use this P3D calibration the throttle is calibrated as per Z-axis.

How can I edit the endpoint values in the Calibration lines? In fsuipc.ini?

Thanks,
Hans

[Pete Dowson]

34 minutes ago, hvw said:

Unfortunately changing the min_throttle_limit parameter to any negative value, I tried several low and high ones, didn't have any affect at all.

Assuming your values were all between 0 and -1.0, then that's rather strange, becuase I'm pretty sure it is that value which affects the SimVar variable FSUIPC uses: "THROTTLE LOWER LIMIT", which FSUIPC converts to the appropriate proportion of 16K and stores in offset 0B00 (as a u16). For example, the default of -0.25 should give -4096 there.

Perhaps you could Monitor that (right-hand side of the FSUIPC Logging tab, in its options).

34 minutes ago, hvw said:

Could this be due to the fact that the throttle on the Thrustmaster HOTAS works via the Z-axis? In the calibration screen of FSUIPC the throttle is not being recognized. However, it is being recognized in the Axis Assignment section. 

If it is seen in Axis Assignment, AND you've assigned it, then it really must be recognised in the calibration.

If you've not actually calibrated it in FSUIPC this explains the problem, as it is the calibration which limits the reverse according to the max reverse from the Aircraft.CFG file!  Without calibration the control value is simply being passed as received.

The calibration should see it even if assigned in P3D1

What are you assigning to? For a reverse region you either need two separate throttles (the NGX has got two engines, after all), or you would have to map the generic throttle on page 1 of the calibration pages. Please review the FSUIPC User Guide.

Also try testing on a default jet as opposed to PMDG, as the PMDG aircraft do tend to do their own thing. Many folks find they cannot assign or calibrate in FSUIPC for some of the PMDG axes.

34 minutes ago, hvw said:

How can I edit the endpoint values in the Calibration lines? In fsuipc.ini?

You can't if the axis isn't being calibrated -- there won't be an entry.

Pete

 

[hvw]

Thanks a lot, Pete. If I understand you correctly, I might be wrong, then it won't be possible for my Thrustmaster HOTAS to have both forward thrust and reverse thrust on it's throttle as the TM Hotas only has one axis, the Z-axis. But I just tried the same as I am doing on the 737-800 NGXu on the previous version, the 737-800 NGX and you know what, there it is working perfectly. Pushing the throttle all the way forward, N1% =102% N1, pulling the throttle back to its center position, neutral,  the engines are running idle. (Yes, I know, my throttle is serving both engines at the same time). But now, when I pull the throttle all the way back, full reverse, N1% is 84% N1 REV, as I hoped it would be in the NGXu as well. The parameters used in FSUIPC are identical for both versions as I don't use different profiles for the aircraft. Strange, isn't it? Why is it working correctly in the previous version and not in the current ones, the NGXu's? And how to circumnavigate my current problem? Buying another joystick is not possible for me. PMDG is stating that their coding of the product is correct as the throttle is working fine if I use it under P3D's controls. (If I do, I can use the throttle for forward thrust or reverse thrust only, though). Perhaps I should put a piece of tape at the position where N1% REV is 84% on my throttle, but that would be quite idiotic, won't it?

Thanks,
Hans

[Pete Dowson]

4 hours ago, hvw said:

I might be wrong, then it won't be possible for my Thrustmaster HOTAS to have both forward thrust and reverse thrust on it's throttle as the TM Hotas only has one axis, the Z-axis.

You can MAP the one throttle to two throttles. Please do refer to the FSUIPC user guide. You need both throttles to be controlled in your aircraft I asume? Well, that mapping does it and allows a reverse zone on the axis during calibration as well.

4 hours ago, hvw said:

Why is it working correctly in the previous version and not in the current ones, the NGXu's?

I've no idea, but then I've also no idea how it works if you are assigning the Generic throttle (Axis throttle set), which I assume, as that offers no reverse capability.

Unfortunately you've not yet said what you assign to so I can't really help further. I am thinking it's the PMDG NGXu which is reading your joystick and not FSUIPC.

Pete

 

[hvw]

I will try to MAP my throttle later today, but actually I don't mind controlling both aircraft throttles with just the one Thrustmaster throttle. Or do I misunderstand you here now? Anyway, I will try the MAP option.

I am not sure what you mean by where I assign my throttle to. In FSUIPC I indeed did set it to Throttle Set (see picture in my initial note) and so far, through the years, this have been working fine as both forward and reverse thrust with just one axis on the Thrustmaster Hotas. 

Thanks for all your help, Pete.

[Pete Dowson]

Throttle Set is not Axis throttle set. Assign to the Axis one.

I had assumed you only had the one throttle axis and so wanted to control both engines with that. Hence the need to map the one throttle to two THEN calibrate with an appropriate reverse zone.

Please DO read the sections on Axis Assignment and Calibration in the FSUIPC User Guide!

Pete

 

[hvw]

Pete, I did read the Axis Assignment part in the user's guide carefully, but still I cannot get the Thrustmaster to do both forward and reverse thrust on its throttle. I tried options numbers 1 and 2 as per the manual, the joystick now can be calibrated,  but as said, no success in getting it to do both forward and reverse thrust. It's either one of these two. I assigned the joystick to Axis Throttle, also tried Axis Throttle1 Set, and 2 set, same result. either only forward or reverse, not both on the same axis. I simply can't get both on the same axis.  ANy idea what I might have been missing?

 

Thanks,
Hans

[Pete Dowson]

12 minutes ago, hvw said:

I tried options numbers 1 and 2 as per the manual, the joystick now can be calibrated

Sorry, can you explain what you mean?

14 minutes ago, hvw said:

the joystick now can be calibrated,  but as said, no success in getting it to do both forward and reverse thrust. It's either one of these two.

But there is no reverse only capability in FSUIPC unless you assign to reversers!

For a forward and reverse zone on the same axis you calibrate on the 4 throttles page of the calibration tab and make sure that the No Reverse Zone option is not checked. Then calibrate wih a minimum, a central idle zone, and a maximum.

Pete

 

[hvw]

You are describing three ways to assign axis controls in the user guide. I tried the first two ways you described. Sorry for having been unclear.

18 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

But there is no reverse only capability in FSUIPC unless you assign to reversers!

For a forward and reverse zone on the same axis you calibrate on the 4 throttles page of the calibration tab and make sure that the No Reverse Zone option is not checked. Then calibrate wih a minimum, a central idle zone, and a maximum.

 

 

OK, at least I now could calibrate a minimum, idle and maximum zone. It looks as if it is working as I hoped it would now. Have to run, though, will try more later today. Thanks, Pete

 

Hans

[hvw]

Pete,

All works now as it should. Thank you so much for your help. I was totally focused on the "Throttle Set" option as that worked perfectly with all previous versions of PMDG's aircraft. Thanks a gain. I owe you one

Hans van Wijhe