FSUIPC and AI Separation

[UniformAlpha2014]

Hey, 

I'm starting this topic because I need your help with this. It may be, that AI Separation has a bug or something has changed with the FSUIPC versions lately. 

The situation basically can be found here: 

However: STB is not the issue in this case. But I'm testing around where this errors occur. As it is still there.

Uninstalled EDDF, ORBX sceneries. Reinstalled the full P3D Scenery, and Client. Deleted the P3D.cfg. Tested FSUIPC version 5.155 and FSUIPC6

Still AIS deletes AI on separation action. Then I noticed that AIS invokes commands to FSUIPC to force a separation. Maybe there is some error in float numbers, because it mostly deletes AI, when approaching from the west. I don't know seriously, what is the case of this. 

Question now is: Did you change some commands or anything, that stop AIS doing its job? And what commands is AIS invoking during separation?

 

Thanks for you help

[John Dowson]

13 hours ago, UniformAlpha2014 said:

Did you change some commands or anything, that stop AIS doing its job?

Changes to FSUIPC are listed in the History document. Recent changes that affect AI traffic include
    - Improvements to AI traffic limiter (v5.152, July 2019)
    - bug fixed causing a CTD when controlling many aircraft (v5,152, July 2019(
    - new offsets added for count of ground and airborne AI traffic (v5,152, July 2019)
    - new "Traffic" tab introduced with additional controls and ini parameters (v5.152, December 2019)
    - Correction to reading of ZapCylinderAltDiff ini parameter (v5.152, December 2019)
    - correction to logging of period AI traffic data (v5.155, March 2020)

13 hours ago, UniformAlpha2014 said:

And what commands is AIS invoking during separation?

You will need to ask AIS this!

You could enable logging of AI data. To do this, add the following to the [General] section of your ini:

Debug=Please
LogExtras=x40000

Be warned though. This will produce HUGE logs. May be better to enable when well away from busy airports but are still getting a few updates that exhibit your problem. To enable it in the Sim, leave the "Debug=Please" set in the INI file, but not the LogExtras= line. Then, to turn it on, go to FSUIPC options, Logging tab, and enter 262144 in the Extras edit box, near bottom left. (262144 is the same as x40000 but in decimal because that edit box won't accept hex). You can then later disable  by changing that back to 0.

    

[UniformAlpha2014]

Thanks for your reply John. 

You are right, these log files can get huge. There are a few examples in the log below. When you search for GS=2968 you get the AI, that gets separated by AIS. But I can't figure it out why. Maybe you see more in this log.

2 hours ago, John Dowson said:

You will need to ask AIS this!

That could be hard, because there is no support left.

FSUIPC6.2.log

[John Dowson]

I am sorry but I cannot support AIS. I do not have or use this add-on.

You could try with

Debug=Please
LogExtras=x10000

This should log a lot less and may help.

[Pete Dowson]

20 hours ago, UniformAlpha2014 said:

I'm starting this topic because I need your help with this. It may be, that AI Separation has a bug or something has changed with the FSUIPC versions lately. 

I never found AISeparation worked very well.

I think you'd be better off with the new programs AIFlow and AIGround. See 

https://www.alpha-india.net/forums/index.php?topic=33055.msg331712#new

or

 

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/574110-heads-up-on-new-ai-separation-utilities-for-p3dv4/Pete

 

Pete

[UniformAlpha2014]

3 hours ago, John Dowson said:

I am sorry but I cannot support AIS. I do not have or use this add-on.

You could try with

Debug=Please
LogExtras=x10000

This should log a lot less and may help.

That offset is really usefull. I keep watching this on my flight to Shanghai now. I call you back with more information later.

 

11 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

I never found AISeparation worked very well

yeah it has its ups and downs. But did a great job on my system.

 

22 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

new programs AIFlow and AIGround

I have seen these as well, but I'm a little sceptical. Have you tested it yet? What is the difference to AIS?

[Pete Dowson]

1 hour ago, UniformAlpha2014 said:

have seen these as well, but I'm a little sceptical. Have you tested it yet? What is the difference to AIS?

More sophisticated  -- a lot more. I've tried them on a networked PC with P3D5.  The author also wrote AI controller, which also routed them on SIDS and STARS, but took a lot of setting up. These are just run and forget.

Pete

 

[UniformAlpha2014]

10 hours ago, John Dowson said:

I am sorry but I cannot support AIS. I do not have or use this add-on.

You could try with

Debug=Please
LogExtras=x10000

This should log a lot less and may help.

John, here you are: Found something there: 

[John Dowson]

Its far easier for me if you attach your log rather than posting pictures!

Could it be that something (AI separation?) is trying to move an AI aircraft that has already been removed/deleted? Difficult to tell without the full log.

 

[Pete Dowson]

2 hours ago, John Dowson said:

Could it be that something (AI separation?) is trying to move an AI aircraft that has already been removed/deleted?

Hi John,

Yes, it looks like it. Maybe the Traffic Limiter is active? Or they've been removed by the Sim because of conflicts?

Pete

 

[UniformAlpha2014]

Does the traffic limiter delete aircraft, even if there aren't too many aircraft around? I did not touch anything there. Should be the default settings. 

I included the complete log of 10 min LOWW. There were some deletions as well. Runways active: 29/34

FSUIPC6.log

[Pete Dowson]

54 minutes ago, UniformAlpha2014 said:

Does the traffic limiter delete aircraft, even if there aren't too many aircraft around?

Only if the number of AI exceeds the limit you've set.

56 minutes ago, UniformAlpha2014 said:

I did not touch anything there. Should be the default settings. 

The default settings in FSUIPC will have the limiter turned off.

1 hour ago, UniformAlpha2014 said:

I included the complete log of 10 min LOWW. There were some deletions as well. Runways active: 29/34

Not sure why you supplied a log if FSUIPC is not doing any traffic operations. And are you saying the deletions are logged? Where? i'm not looking through that long log! You'd need to give me a line number of time (numbrer on left of each line).

If the traffic limiter is not enabled, then the only AI deletions will either be by P3D (leaving area or a conflict, or possibly stationary too long), or by an external program, presumably AIseparation if that's the only one you are runnng.

Maybe AIseparation is holding them (probably in SLEW mode) too long and P3D deletes them because of that.

Why not try AIflow. it is very good at dealing with AI, unlike AIseparation which never worked properly for me.

Anyway this is not an FSUIPC matter. If you want AIseparation support you'd need to find the author, or move on to a more recent and active program.

Pete

 

[UniformAlpha2014]

Sorry I forgot the lines. My fault, I wanted to include it in the previous post. 

Just search for Exception, there you have the deletions. I have some at line 8125. I monitered that live in P3D, and it was a Dash8 from Austrian. On the afcad for LOWW would be enough space to park for it. 

As you wrote, the AI has to get deleted either from P3D or AIS. Is there any other logging codes to get more/other information? 

[Pete Dowson]

16 minutes ago, UniformAlpha2014 said:

As you wrote, the AI has to get deleted either from P3D or AIS. Is there any other logging codes to get more/other information? 

You could tell if it was from AIS by logging it's commands sent to FSUIPC.  It's probably using offset 2900 to control and delete aircraft (if indeed it is deleting). You'd need to Monitor that offset.

Please refer to the Offsets list document installed for you with FSUIPC. Just search for 2900. It'll be on page 32 or thereabouts.

You'll see it is 3 DWORD (32-bit) values, so monitor 

2900 as S32
2904 as S32
2908 as S32 

That will log slews, movements, and deletions if AISeparation is doing them all through FSUIPC. You'd need to search for 2904=65535, the deletion code, to see what it is deleting.

Pease don't ask me to analyse your logs. I really do think you are spending all this time on that program needlessly. Why don't you try AIflow?

Pete