No axis for aileron and rudder trim

[jmig]

In trying to set up pots to control the trim, I noticed there is no axis for either the aileron (roll) or rudder (yaw) trim. Is this an oversight or does the new sim not offer these trims in an axis mode. I noticed that you cannot set them via the sim's controller settings either.

John

[John Dowson]

Aileron and rudder trim axes are currently not available in MSFS. If you look at the release note, under 'Functionality to be Added', you will see:
    4. Re-instate aileron/rudder trim control axes: either when/if axes added back to SDK, or switch to using simulator variables
 

John

[John Dowson]

I also reported this to Asobo. However, there response was that these axes don't exist in FSX, so why should they in MSFS. However, they do exist in MSFS, its just that they are not documented.

John

[jmig]

Thank you for the update and information, John.

John

[zfehr]

Using my PFC Cirrus II and the pfc.dll I do have the selection for aileron and rudder trim which I can select, the ui indicates movement and ability to calibrate, on the Baron the aileron trim and rudder trim wheels animate and move in the cockpit, but only the aileron trim is functional but needs to be reversed. Both cockpit animations are reversed. 

[John Dowson]

4 minutes ago, zfehr said:

Using my PFC Cirrus II and the pfc.dll I do have the selection for aileron and rudder trim which I can select, the ui indicates movement and ability to calibrate, on the Baron the aileron trim and rudder trim wheels animate and move in the cockpit, but only the aileron trim is functional but needs to be reversed. Both cockpit animations are reversed.

That would be using simvars, not the axes.

@jmig You could try sending the axes to the aileron/rudder trim offsets, 0C02 and 0C04. Select 'Sent to FSUIPC offset' in the axis assignment panel, with 'Offset Word Set'.

John

[zfehr]

12 minutes ago, John Dowson said:

That would be using simvars, not the axes.

@jmig You could try sending the axes to the aileron/rudder trim offsets, 0C02 and 0C04. Select 'Sent to FSUIPC offset' in the axis assignment panel, with 'Offset Word Set'.

John

I will check that.
Z

[zfehr]

11 hours ago, John Dowson said:

That would be using simvars, not the axes.

@jmig You could try sending the axes to the aileron/rudder trim offsets, 0C02 and 0C04. Select 'Sent to FSUIPC offset' in the axis assignment panel, with 'Offset Word Set'.

John

I have tried setting up the axis through FSUIPC using the offsets as described and there is no movement of the animations for rudder or aileron trim, externally or cockpit, and no effect on flying. Setting it with the PFC.dll does work though. I did verify the external depiction of the trim movement is correct and the rudder trim tab does move. The cockpit animation for the trim controls are reversed (a MSFS mistake not caught in alpha or beta). The aileron trim does have an effect on flying if enabled in the pfc.dll but the rudder does not have any effect on flight (I do believe that is also a MSFS mistake and not FSUIPC). Curious why the PFC.dll will get the trim to work and using the described offsets within FSUIPC itself does not work... I do see the the axis being recognized by FSUIPC.

[Pete Dowson]

5 hours ago, zfehr said:

I have tried setting up the axis through FSUIPC using the offsets as described and there is no movement of the animations for rudder or aileron trim, externally or cockpit, and no effect on flying. Setting it with the PFC.dll does work though.
...
Curious why the PFC.dll will get the trim to work and using the described offsets within FSUIPC itself does not work... I do see the the axis being recognized by FSUIPC.

Me too!

By "PFC.dll" do you mean "PFCHid64.dll" or "PFCcom64.dll"? I would assume the former if you are using the standard USB Cirrus?

Could you do some logging for me please? In FSUIPC7 open the Logging options and check the options for Axes Controls, and Offsets 0C02, 0C04, 3BC0 and 3BC2 all as type "S16".  Then operate those trims a bit, using the PFC assignments, then show me both the FSUIPC7.LOG and your FSUIPC7.INI, from the FSUIPC7 folder.

Thanks. Meanwhile I'll try some things here.

Pete

 

[zfehr]

Hi Pete,

I am meaning the PFCcom64.dll for use with serial port PFC Cirrus II BATD. I confirmed the FSUIPC settings were cleared for aileron and rudder trim and that the check boxes were marked in the PFC extension for aileron and rudder trim and that they were registering axis movement. Then set the logging per instructions and moved the aileron trim full travel two times, then moved the rudder trim two times and then closed FSUIPC and exited the sim to retrieve and send the log and ini files.

Z

FSUIPC7.ini FSUIPC7.log

[Pete Dowson]

58 minutes ago, zfehr said:

I confirmed the FSUIPC settings were cleared for aileron and rudder trim and that the check boxes were marked in the PFC extension for aileron and rudder trim and that they were registering axis movement. Then set the logging per instructions and moved the aileron trim full travel two times, then moved the rudder trim two times and then closed FSUIPC and exited the sim to retrieve and send the log and ini files.

Interesting -- neither INI or LOG files contain anything showing aileron or rudder trim controls operating, and the offsets showing the values of these trims are never logged. 

The log just shows both Aileron and Rudder axes jittering a little around neutral.

I see you run both PFChid and PFCcom:

      453 Loaded PFCcom64.DLL okay!
      485 Loaded PFChid64.dll okay!

I really don't know how the aileron and rudder trim are changing in MSFS. There are no controls for it, and the relevant SimVars aren't providing values.

PFCcom64 sets these trims via offsets 2EB0 and 2EC0, but those, in turn, operate via 0C02 and 0C04, yet there's no change in those offsets according to your logging. I'm going to have to do some further investigation.  If you have time, i wonder if you could change the 0C02 and 0C04 entries in the Logging Offsets options to 2EB0 and 2EC0, of type FLT64, and repeat the test for me, please.

Pete

 

 

 

[zfehr]

30 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

Interesting -- neither INI or LOG files contain anything showing aileron or rudder trim controls operating, and the offsets showing the values of these trims are never logged. 

The log just shows both Aileron and Rudder axes jittering a little around neutral.

I see you run both PFChid and PFCcom:

      453 Loaded PFCcom64.DLL okay!
      485 Loaded PFChid64.dll okay!

I really don't know how the aileron and rudder trim are changing in MSFS. There are no controls for it, and the relevant SimVars aren't providing values.

PFCcom64 sets these trims via offsets 2EB0 and 2EC0, but those, in turn, operate via 0C02 and 0C04, yet there's no change in those offsets according to your logging. I'm going to have to do some further investigation.  If you have time, i wonder if you could change the 0C02 and 0C04 entries in the Logging Offsets options to 2EB0 and 2EC0, of type FLT64, and repeat the test for me, please.

Pete

 

 

 

Hi Pete,

I will do that over my lunch break in a few hours.  Interesting.

Z

[zfehr]

3 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

Interesting -- neither INI or LOG files contain anything showing aileron or rudder trim controls operating, and the offsets showing the values of these trims are never logged. 

The log just shows both Aileron and Rudder axes jittering a little around neutral.

I see you run both PFChid and PFCcom:

      453 Loaded PFCcom64.DLL okay!
      485 Loaded PFChid64.dll okay!

I really don't know how the aileron and rudder trim are changing in MSFS. There are no controls for it, and the relevant SimVars aren't providing values.

PFCcom64 sets these trims via offsets 2EB0 and 2EC0, but those, in turn, operate via 0C02 and 0C04, yet there's no change in those offsets according to your logging. I'm going to have to do some further investigation.  If you have time, i wonder if you could change the 0C02 and 0C04 entries in the Logging Offsets options to 2EB0 and 2EC0, of type FLT64, and repeat the test for me, please.

Pete

 

 

 

Repeated test as specified with logging offset changes made. Aileron trim cycled two times, then Rudder trim cycled two times.

Z

FSUIPC7.ini FSUIPC7.log

[Pete Dowson]

1 hour ago, zfehr said:

Repeated test as specified with logging offset changes made. Aileron trim cycled two times, then Rudder trim cycled two times.

Interesting. None of the monitored offsets changing in either set of tests. Are you sure you enabled the Offset logging to go to the Log file?  (a check box option on that tab).

Anyway it probably doesn't matter now. i think we found the answer to enable those trims as axes generally.

Pete

 

[zfehr]

23 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

Interesting. None of the monitored offsets changing in either set of tests. Are you sure you enabled the Offset logging to go to the Log file?  (a check box option on that tab).

Anyway it probably doesn't matter now. i think we found the answer to enable those trims as axes generally.

Pete

 

Yes, I did check that box. I can re-run or run more tests this evening after work if you have additional offsets or parameters you need checked.

Z

[zfehr]

3 hours ago, zfehr said:

Yes, I did check that box. I can re-run or run more tests this evening after work if you have additional offsets or parameters you need checked.

Z

I have downloaded the latest FSUIPC7 file John uploaded earlier and repeated the tests. I may not have had the "display to normal log file" box checked in my earlier tests. The "previous log" file is for the tests with the 0C02 and 0C04 logging on S16. The other log file is with 2EB0 and 2EC0 logging on FLT64. The normal log file does show the offset doing something for the PFC.

Z

FSUIPC7.ini FSUIPC7.log FSUIPC7_prev.log

[Pete Dowson]

Thanks! I think I have enough now to solve this.

Pete

 

[John Dowson]

@jmig I have added back the Aileron and Rudder Trim  set controls. Although these are undocumented, they seem to be working. Can you please download  and try the latest release.

John

[zfehr]

6 hours ago, John Dowson said:

@jmig I have added back the Aileron and Rudder Trim  set controls. Although these are undocumented, they seem to be working. Can you please download  and try the latest release.

John

Hi John,

I can verify that the new build does allow setting the offsets in FSUIPC7 to operate the aileron and rudder trim. The calibration page still shows that the aileron and rudder are unsupported and do not allow calibration. The inputs are reversed like they are in PFCcom64.dll so one would need to be able to reverse them in FSIUPC7 for them to work properly.

Z

[John Dowson]

1 hour ago, zfehr said:

The calibration page still shows that the aileron and rudder are unsupported and do not allow calibration.

Ah yes, forgot to enable that, sorry. Will do that shortly (probably tomorrow now).

John

[John Dowson]

On 8/26/2020 at 4:59 PM, zfehr said:

The calibration page still shows that the aileron and rudder are unsupported and do not allow calibration.

This has been corrected in the latest build, now available.