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So here's a conundrum I can't seem to find a way around, so figured I'd ask all the smart people!

P3dv5

FSUIPC  6.1.9

Sim Avionics Boeing 737-800

This isn't a bug, just a "I don't know if there is a way to get around this or not" I've been simming since FS9 and this is that old tired question of the two master starter levers, or fuel valves, or mixture etc etc etc.

Here's the issue I've run into.

On my TQ I have the two idle/cutoff levers.

In P3Dv5 if you go to the menu bar, vehicle, instrument panel, throttle panel, the two levers are both listed as master starter switch.

You can't find master starter switch in p3ds key assisnments. You can find engine1 this, fuel valve that, starter, mixture etc. None of those assigned to the buttons on my TQ work. And auto mixture is off.

FSUIPC does show Toggle Master Starter Switch in buttons and switches, and if I set it on both press and release using parameter 1 for left engine and 2 for right engine on both press and release, it will toggle the levers in p3d.

But here's what is happening...

When you start your flight, p3d sees that the real tq levers are in cutoff (button pressed) and goes oh, fsuipc says when button pressed, toggle master starter, so it flips it in p3d and thus it's opposite the real lever.

P3d levers are idle, real tq is in cutoff.

If I set tq levers to idle (button released) and start p3d, p3d sees that they idle and fsuipc goes well, you said when button released, toggle master starter.

P3d levers are cutoff, real tq is idle.

I don't think there's offsets for p3d for the state. It's just a toggle.

So, I can remove the button press in fsuipc, and that at least doesn't flip p3ds levers when the scenario begins. But it means I have to move the real tq levers twice, to toggle. (Button press, button released, button press, button release)

The same issue applies to parking brake. Once the scenario starts, it's toggled and thus opposite of what the real parking brakes position is.

There doesn't seem to be a parameter for the state of idle and cutoff, just parameter 1 for engine 1 and parameter 2 for engine 2. And since it's a toggle, it's always opposite of the real lever if I put the toggle on both press and release in fsuipc. And it takes double movement on the real tq lever, if I have it set only on button release in fsuipc.

Am I just stuck doing double movements? The cutoff idle would technically only need it once, but the parking brake with pushback doing it twice everytime would be dumb lol.

Maybe if the initial buttons state could be ignored that would fix it, but I don't know if that's possible.

Here's a video as well

Thoughs?

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4 hours ago, My737Sim said:

When you start your flight, p3d sees that the real tq levers are in cutoff (button pressed) and goes oh, fsuipc says when button pressed, toggle master starter, so it flips it in p3d and thus it's opposite the real lever.

So you have this assigned in both P3D and in FSUIPC? You should only assign in one place. If assigning in FSUIPC, we recommend that you disable controllers completely in P3D as it has a tendency to reassign automatically if not disabled.

Also, FSUIPC only reacts when buttons are changed - it should not send anything until you change the state of a button.

Note also that for the parking brake toggle, you can use an offset condition to determine the state of the parking brake (using offset 0x0BC8) and so only send the command when needed to maintain the correct state for your switch - see the Advanced User guide for details. For the starter. you could try the Starter 1/2 Set controls instead.

But if you want me to look into this further, I need to see your FSUIPC6.ini and FSUIPC6.log files, the latter generated with logging for Buttons & Keys activated as well as Events (non-axis controls) and showing your issue.

John

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4 hours ago, John Dowson said:

So you have this assigned in both P3D and in FSUIPC? You should only assign in one place. If assigning in FSUIPC, we recommend that you disable controllers completely in P3D as it has a tendency to reassign automatically if not disabled.

Also, FSUIPC only reacts when buttons are changed - it should not send anything until you change the state of a button.

Note also that for the parking brake toggle, you can use an offset condition to determine the state of the parking brake (using offset 0x0BC8) and so only send the command when needed to maintain the correct state for your switch - see the Advanced User guide for details. For the starter. you could try the Starter 1/2 Set controls instead.

But if you want me to look into this further, I need to see your FSUIPC6.ini and FSUIPC6.log files, the latter generated with logging for Buttons & Keys activated as well as Events (non-axis controls) and showing your issue.

John

No, it's only assigned in FSUIPC. I tried to see if there was a key assignment in P3D but there isn't any that works. They were deleted and then I went to see if FSUIPC could see anything and it does, but I run into this issue.

If you watch my video, it clearly shows the state of the lever changing in P3D upon start of the scenario. If I clear out toggle master starter switch on the lever, it doesn't react at all in p3d. So something is clearly happening when the scenario starts because p3d instantaneously flips the position based on the fact that fsuipc is set to toggle it when the button is pressed. (And it's pressed on initial load of the scenario.) Watch the video, you'll see.

I hadn't yet bothered checking offsets for the brake because Im trying to figure out the levers, but will give that a shot. 

Tonight I'll enable logging and send over the files. It's so weird...

Thanks!

Matt

 

 

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3 minutes ago, My737Sim said:

If you watch my video, it clearly shows the state of the lever changing in P3D upon start of the scenario.

There is no point in me watching that video until I have seen your files...and then it may not be necessary...

 

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19 minutes ago, John Dowson said:

There is no point in me watching that video until I have seen your files...and then it may not be necessary...

 

Quick info

 This is the TQ

     578    Joystick ID = 2 (Registry okay)
     578    2=BU0836X Interface
     578    2.GUID={9D933890-8EFE-11EA-8001-444553540000}

 

Here is the button state change when the scenario loads.

    16984 Loading Complete ...
    17016 ### Mode is NORMAL
    18016 Button changed: bRef=0, Joy=2, Btn=8, Pressed
    18016 [Buttons] 18=P2,8,C66725,1
    18016 FS Control Sent: Ctrl=66725, Param=1 TOGGLE_MASTER_STARTER_SWITCH
    18016 Button changed: bRef=0, Joy=2, Btn=9, Pressed
    18031 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66725 (0x000104a5), Param= 1 (0x00000001) TOGGLE_MASTER_STARTER_SWITCH

 

Does line 18031 give us any indication due to the three asterisks?

Requested info pasted, and attached. Look forward to your "well there's your problem" moment!

Thanks!

Matt

 

FSUIPC.ini

[General]
UpdatedByVersion=6109
History=R1U72MIQYQQ0MQN5X3WHX
InitDelayDevicesToo=No
PMDG737offsets=Auto
PMDG747offsets=Auto
PMDG777offsets=Auto
Annotate=Yes
UseSystemTime=No
UseMidMouseBtn=Yes
MouseWheelMove=No
MouseWheelTrim=No
MouseWheelTrimSpeed=1
JoystickTimeout=20
RestoreSimcWindows=No
FixMachSpeedBug=No
AutoScanDevices=Yes
DisconnTrimForAP=No
ZeroElevForAPAlt=No
ThrottleSyncAll=No
EnableExtraButtons=Yes
WhiteMessages=No
ShowPMcontrols=No
SpoilerIncrement=512
MagicBattery=Yes
RudderSpikeRemoval=No
ElevatorSpikeRemoval=No
AileronSpikeRemoval=No
ReversedElevatorTrim=No
ClockSync=No
ClockSyncMins=5
ClearWeatherDynamics=No
TimeForSelect=4
LoadFlightMenu=No
LoadPlanMenu=No
PauseAfterCrash=No
BrakeReleaseThreshold=75
SaveDataWithFlights=No
ZapSound=firework
ZapAirRange=1.50
ZapGroundRange=0.25
ZapCylinderAltDiff=0
ShortAircraftNameOk=Substring
UseProfiles=Yes
EnableMouseLook=No
DelayedMouseLookZoom=No
WideLuaGlobals=Yes
AxesWrongRange=No
TCASid=Flight
TCASrange=40,3
AxisCalibration=No
DirectAxesToCalibs=No
ShowMultilineWindow=Yes
SuppressSingleline=No
SuppressMultilineFS=No
AxisIntercepts=No
DontResetAxes=No
ThreadAffinityMask=x0
LuaAffinityMask=x0
InitDelay=0
GetNearestAirports=Yes
LogOptionProtect=Yes
TimeToDelayTexts=100
TimeForLuaClosing=2
WeatherReadFactor=2
WeatherRewriteSeconds=1
TrafficStallTime=1
InitialStallTime=10
NormalStallTime=1
LuaRerunDelay=66
ComReadLoopTime=20
ControlsListBuild=28160
Console=No
ConsoleWindowTopMost=No
InvokeFSUIPCOptionsKey=70,15
OptionsDialogOffset=146, -111
LogEvents=Yes
LogButtonsKeys=Yes
FSVersionUsed="Lockheed Martin® Prepar3D® v5",5.3.17.28160
SimConnectUsed=5.3.0.0

[Traffic Limiter]
AirportPreference=50
PlannedAirportsPreference=50
GroundPreference=50
NearerPreference=50
TargetFrameRate=0
LoLimit=0
HiLimit=0

[JoyNames]
AutoAssignLetters=No
0=T-Rudder
0.GUID={7F2A3E90-8EF8-11EA-8006-444553540000}
1=737YOKE-LE by ACE
1.GUID={7F2A3E90-8EF8-11EA-8007-444553540000}
2=BU0836X Interface
2.GUID={9D933890-8EFE-11EA-8001-444553540000}

[JoystickCalibration]
RudderBlendLowest=1
AllowSuppressForPFCquad=Yes
ExcludeThrottleSet=Yes
ExcludeMixtureSet=Yes
ExcludePropPitchSet=Yes
SepRevsJetsOnly=No
ApplyHeloTrim=No
UseAxisControlsForNRZ=No
FlapsSetControl=0
FlapDetents=No
ReverserControl=66292
Reverser1Control=66422
Reverser2Control=66425
Reverser3Control=66428
Reverser4Control=66431
MaxThrottleForReverser=256
AileronTrimControl=66731
RudderTrimControl=66732
CowlFlaps1Control=66162
CowlFlaps2Control=66163
CowlFlaps3Control=66164
CowlFlaps4Control=66165
SteeringTillerControl=0
MaxSteerSpeed=60

[Axes]
PollInterval=10
RangeRepeatRate=10
1=2V,BR,14191,15719,65602,0    -{ Entering=THROTTLE_DECR }-

[Buttons]
PollInterval=25
ButtonRepeat=20,10
4=U2,2,C65752,0     -{PARKING_BRAKES}-
12=P2,10,K89,11     -{Key press: ctl+shft+Y}-
13=U2,10,K89,11     -{Key press: ctl+shft+Y}-
15=U2,8,C66725,1     -{TOGGLE_MASTER_STARTER_SWITCH}-
16=U2,9,C66725,2     -{TOGGLE_MASTER_STARTER_SWITCH}-
18=P2,8,C66725,1     -{TOGGLE_MASTER_STARTER_SWITCH}-

[AutoSave]
Interval=60
Files=10
SaveOnGround=No
AutoSaveEnabled=No

[GPSout]
GPSoutEnabled=No
Port=COM0
Speed=4800
Interval=2000
PosTo6Decimal=No
SimModeIndicator=No
Sentences=

[GPSout2]
GPSoutEnabled=No
Port=<none set>
Speed=4800
Interval=2000
PosTo6Decimal=No
SimModeIndicator=No
Sentences=

[WideServer]
WideFSenabled=Yes
AdvertiseService=1
Port=8002
Port2=9002

[Sounds]
Path=T:\P3Dv5\Sound\
Device1=Primary Sound Driver
Device2=Headphones (3- Flight Sound X)
Device3=VoiceMeeter Input (VB-Audio VoiceMeeter VAIO)
Device4=Optoma 1080P (NVIDIA High Definition Audio)
Device5=VoiceMeeter Aux Input (VB-Audio VoiceMeeter AUX VAIO)
Device6=Speakers (Realtek(R) Audio)

[ClientNames]
1=SIM1

[AutoSaveFilesV5]
Next=1

[Window.Message Window]
NewDocked=23, 65, 1874, 23

[Window.SimConnectWindow]
NewDocked=720, 405, 480, 270

 

FSUIPC6.log

********* FSUIPC6, Version 6.1.9 (19th May 2022) by Pete & John Dowson *********
Prepar3D.exe version = 5.3.17.28160
Running inside Prepar3D v5
Module base=7FFA88B50000
Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit reported as Build 19044, Release ID: 2009 (OS 10.0)
Reading options from "T:\FSUIPC6\FSUIPC6.ini"
Checking the Registrations now ...
User Name="Matt Riggins"
User Addr="mattriggins@gmail.com"
FSUIPC6 Key is provided
WideFS7 Key is provided
        0 System time = 30/06/2022 08:10:43
        0 FLT UNC path = "C:\Users\SIMPC\Documents\Prepar3D v5 Files\"
        0 Using DialogMode
       16 FS UNC path = "T:\P3Dv5\"
       94 ---------------------- Joystick Device Scan -----------------------
       94 Product= BU0836X Interface
       94    Manufacturer= Leo Bodnar
       94    Serial Number= B10609
       94    Vendor=1DD2, Product=1001 (Version 1.35)
      562    GUIDs returned for product: VID_1DD2&PID_1001:
      562       GUID= {9D933890-8EFE-11EA-8001-444553540000}
      562       Details: Btns=32, POVs=(0, 0, 0, 0), Cal=x00000000, Max=R0,U4095,V4095,X4095,Y0,Z4095
      578 Product= T-Rudder
      578    Manufacturer= Thrustmaster
      578    Vendor=044F, Product=B679 (Version 1.16)
      578    GUIDs returned for product: VID_044F&PID_B679:
      578       GUID= {7F2A3E90-8EF8-11EA-8006-444553540000}
      578       Details: Btns=0, POVs=(0, 0, 0, 0), Cal=x00000000, Max=R0,U0,V0,X1023,Y1023,Z1023
      578 Product= 737YOKE-LE by ACE
      578    Manufacturer= ACE
      578    Serial Number= A20352
      578    Vendor=16C0, Product=2786 (Version 1.35)
      578    GUIDs returned for product: VID_16C0&PID_2786:
      578       GUID= {7F2A3E90-8EF8-11EA-8007-444553540000}
      578       Details: Btns=32, POVs=(0, 0, 0, 0), Cal=x00000000, Max=R0,U0,V0,X4095,Y4095,Z0
      578 -------------------------------------------------------------------
      578 Device acquired for use:
      578    Joystick ID = 2 (Registry okay)
      578    2=BU0836X Interface
      578    2.GUID={9D933890-8EFE-11EA-8001-444553540000}
      578 Device acquired for use:
      578    Joystick ID = 0 (Registry okay)
      578    0=T-Rudder
      578    0.GUID={7F2A3E90-8EF8-11EA-8006-444553540000}
      578 Device acquired for use:
      578    Joystick ID = 1 (Registry okay)
      578    1=737YOKE-LE by ACE
      578    1.GUID={7F2A3E90-8EF8-11EA-8007-444553540000}
      578 -------------------------------------------------------------------
      609 Controllers are set to ON, using RawInput within P3D
      609 LogOptions=60000000 00000001
      609 -------------------------------------------------------------------
      609 SimConnect_Open succeeded: waiting to check version okay
      609 Opened separate AI Traffic client okay
     2766 Running in "Lockheed Martin® Prepar3D® v5", Version: 5.3.17.28160 (SimConnect: 5.3.0.0)
     2766 Initialising SimConnect data requests now
     2766 FSUIPC Menu entry added
     2766 Offset file 'T:\FSUIPC6\myOffsets.txt' not found (info only)
     2766 ... Using Prepar3D with Professional License
     2812 C:\Users\SIMPC\Documents\Prepar3D v5 Files\Default.fxml
     2812 C:\Users\SIMPC\Documents\Prepar3D v5 Files\IFR Los Angeles Intl to McCarran Intl.pln
     2812 T:\P3Dv5\SimObjects\Airplanes\My737Sim 737-800 Winglets\B737-800.air
     2828 C:\Users\SIMPC\Documents\Prepar3D v5 Files\IFR Los Angeles Intl to McCarran Intl.pln
     7234 ### The user object is '737-800 SOUTHWEST 'Blue''
     7234 ### Mode is NORMAL
     7406 ### Mode: PAUSE on
    16984 Loading Complete ...
    17016 ### Mode is NORMAL
    18016 Button changed: bRef=0, Joy=2, Btn=8, Pressed
    18016 [Buttons] 18=P2,8,C66725,1
    18016 FS Control Sent: Ctrl=66725, Param=1 TOGGLE_MASTER_STARTER_SWITCH
    18016 Button changed: bRef=0, Joy=2, Btn=9, Pressed
    18031 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66725 (0x000104a5), Param= 1 (0x00000001) TOGGLE_MASTER_STARTER_SWITCH
    18031 User Aircraft ID 2 supplied, now being used
    18031 Aircraft loaded: running normally now ...
    18125 System time = 30/06/2022 08:11:01, Simulator time = 18:38:42 (01:38Z)
    18125 Aircraft="737-800 SOUTHWEST 'Blue'"
    24125 -------------------- Starting everything now ----------------------
    24125 Starting WideServer now ...
    25250 Advanced Weather Interface Enabled
    55484 KEYDOWN: VK=18, Waiting=0, Repeat=N, Shifts=4
    55484 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

 

 

 

FSUIPC6.ini FSUIPC6.log

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3 minutes ago, My737Sim said:

Does line 18031 give us any indication due to the three asterisks?

No, that is just a standard event log line.

5 minutes ago, My737Sim said:

15=U2,8,C66725,1     -{TOGGLE_MASTER_STARTER_SWITCH}-
16=U2,9,C66725,2     -{TOGGLE_MASTER_STARTER_SWITCH}-
18=P2,8,C66725,1     -{TOGGLE_MASTER_STARTER_SWITCH}-

Why are you sending the same control on a press and a release?

7 minutes ago, My737Sim said:

    18016 Button changed: bRef=0, Joy=2, Btn=8, Pressed
    18016 [Buttons] 18=P2,8,C66725,1
    18016 FS Control Sent: Ctrl=66725, Param=1 TOGGLE_MASTER_STARTER_SWITCH
    18016 Button changed: bRef=0, Joy=2, Btn=9, Pressed
    18031 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66725 (0x000104a5), Param= 1 (0x00000001) TOGGLE_MASTER_STARTER_SWITCH

This is strange if you didn't actually press those buttons...not sure why that is happening, but most probably due to the driver/interface card...
Not sure what to advise...if the press is activating automatically and you don't want the assigned control sent, then remove the assignment to the press.

I don't have much time now I'm afraid - I'll review this again tomorrow and take a look at the video then...

John

 

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24 minutes ago, John Dowson said:

Why are you sending the same control on a press and a release?

This is strange if you didn't actually press those buttons...not sure why that is happening, but most probably due to the driver/interface card...
Not sure what to advise...if the press is activating automatically and you don't want the assigned control sent, then remove the assignment to the press.

I don't have much time now I'm afraid - I'll review this again tomorrow and take a look at the video then...

John

 

All of this is answered in my video... But

It's in both press and release because it's a toggle, and a toggle is the only to get it to work, to what I can see. I don't believe there's an offset for toggle master starter switch with 2 separate parameters. P3D calls it master starter switch, and in FSUIPC I tried Jetstarter (I think that was it) as well as Starter1Set, etc. Only toggle master starter seemed to work. If I remove it from the pressed state, then I have to move the lever 4 times (pressed, unpressed, pressed, unpressed) to get it to move up and back down inside of P3D.

The button starts in a pressed state (cutoff) and thus, when the scenario loads, it's seeing the button is pressed and doing what I have told it to do, to toggle the master starter when the button is pressed. You stated above "Also, FSUIPC only reacts when buttons are changed " but the log and video both show that is not the case. The button IS pressed on initial state, but it's state is not changing. What is happening though, is that P3D starts the lever in cutoff, then it's going to FSUIPC and that IS saying hey, because it's a toggle and he has set it to toggle when button is pressed, flip the state of the lever in P3D. That's why I said in the video, is there a way to ignore initial button state, because it clearly isn't ignoring the state even though the button is not being released.

>if the press is activating automatically and you don't want the assigned control sent, then remove the assignment to the press.

Unless I'm doomed to moving the lever 4 times (as stated above and in the video) I can't, again... it would take 4 lever movements to make the P3D lever only go up once and down once. (two real movements for ever 1 moment in P3D. That is the conundrum.

 

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Ok, took a look at the video and I think I understand your issue - it is the initial press being triggered on start-up. I am not sure why this is occurring... FSUIPC usually only reacts to changes in state, so it must be receiving an initial state of 'off', then on the next scan it is on, and so triggers the assignment.
Not sure how to prevent this... One thing you could possibly do is have a small lua that is auto-run that sends the control again, i.e.
       ipc.control(66725, 1)
This will then send the control twice (i.e. once from the initial button state, once from the lua), and should so then be in sync with your hardware.

Not ideal, I know but maybe worth trying. Otherwise we need to determine why the initial button state is triggering a button change event...

John

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3 minutes ago, John Dowson said:

Ok, took a look at the video and I think I understand your issue - it is the initial press being triggered on start-up. I am not sure why this is occurring... FSUIPC usually only reacts to changes in state, so it must be receiving an initial state of 'off', then on the next scan it is on, and so triggers the assignment.
Not sure how to prevent this... One thing you could possibly do is have a small lua that is auto-run that sends the control again, i.e.
       ipc.control(66725, 1)
This will then send the control twice (i.e. once from the initial button state, once from the lua), and should so then be in sync with your hardware.

Not ideal, I know but maybe worth trying. Otherwise we need to determine why the initial button state is triggering a button change event...

John

Exactly lol. Trust me John, I made the video because I knew it would help the investigation, not replace log files that always contain detailed info. 🙂

LUA is an interesting idea! That may be the answer to this very odd issue.

If FSUIPC should only be sending the command when the state is changed, then I'd love to determine the root cause of what is going on here. That's the true fix, obviously. But I don't know how to log it.

I'll see if the LUA will at least patch the issue in the meantime.

Thank you for your assistance. A true brain scratcher this one is...

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Another thing to try, as the button press is sent before the ' Starting everything now' line, is to add an offset condition on the ready-to-fly flag in offset 0x3364. This will be non-zero before everything is started, and 0 afterwards. So add B3364=0 before your assignments, i.e.

Quote

15=B3364=0 U2,8,C66725,1     -{TOGGLE_MASTER_STARTER_SWITCH}-
16=B3364=0 U2,9,C66725,2     -{TOGGLE_MASTER_STARTER_SWITCH}-
18=B3364=0 P2,8,C66725,1     -{TOGGLE_MASTER_STARTER_SWITCH}-

John

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52 minutes ago, John Dowson said:

Another thing to try, as the button press is sent before the ' Starting everything now' line, is to add an offset condition on the ready-to-fly flag in offset 0x3364. This will be non-zero before everything is started, and 0 afterwards. So add B3364=0 before your assignments, i.e.

John

That's another good idea. Let me change the ini and see what happens.

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1 hour ago, John Dowson said:

Another thing to try, as the button press is sent before the ' Starting everything now' line, is to add an offset condition on the ready-to-fly flag in offset 0x3364. This will be non-zero before everything is started, and 0 afterwards. So add B3364=0 before your assignments, i.e.

John

John you're an absolute genius, adding B3364=0 did the trick! It's now in sync for both levers and I added it to the parking brake as well, issue resolved!

Thank you again for your help on this puzzle, now it's time to go make another video thanking you! 🙂

Admins/Mods please mark this thread as [SOLVED]

Thanks!

Matt

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21 hours ago, My737Sim said:

My TQ is not wired to my SYS boards.

It does not need to be sysboards. The "SysBoard Controller" also handles joysticks, several of the Phidgets boards, and some Pololu boards. As well as an interface to FSUIPC. It also has direct plug n play support for the FDS CDUs, both USB and ethernet versions. There is even a "plugin" API if you are so inclined to program your own hardware interface. I wrote a plugin for Sim-A in Visual Basic to talk to my ancient EPIC hardware system!

Your parking brake switch and fuel lever issues would be a very simple fix in the controller as you can assign both the open AND closed switch states individually.

You can also run an instance of the SysBoard Controller on client computers for any interface boards or joysticks connected to other computers.  

One huge advantage of using the SysBoard controller is you then get the Sim-Avionics system logic, which is what you are paying for 😉 

Sim-Avionics communicates to FSUIPC. Latest Sim-Avionics version is 2.102 (as of last week). 

Just a suggestion of course. I'm just trying to help. Sim-Avionics is very powerful.

Good luck on your build!

James (in Northern California)

 

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