Saitek Yoke support

[tumbi]

I am a happy user of the Saitek Yoke. I also happen to have the additional Quadrant and pedals, but it is the Yoke that I am writing about here.

It would be REALLLLLY nice if an upcoming version of FSUIPC offered support for the Saitek Yoke, especially in the area of its Mode switch. The 3-position Mode switch on the Yoke allows all the Yoke buttons to each have three different functions depending on the Mode switch position. But it appears FSUIPC does not currently recognise the Mode switch and can program each button just once!

Yes, the Saitek Profile editor supplied with the Yoke can configure each button three times but that Profile Editor does not have the flexibility of FSUIPC, and cannot configure all the functions we have in FSUIPC.

So I am just sitting here hoping Pete gets hold of a Saitek Yoke and has a play with it. I know he will be impressed and will be able to produce an update that allows full programming of all the yoke's facilities.

Tony

[Pete Dowson]

It would be REALLLLLY nice if an upcoming version of FSUIPC offered support for the Saitek Yoke, especially in the area of its Mode switch. The 3-position Mode switch on the Yoke allows all the Yoke buttons to each have three different functions depending on the Mode switch position. But it appears FSUIPC does not currently recognise the Mode switch and can program each button just once!

Seems that the Mode switch is either a button numbered outside of the standard 1-32 range (DirectInput, not used by FSUIPC, allows up to 64), or, more likely, it is not configured as a button at all and is dealt with through a private protocol for the Saitek driver.

So I am just sitting here hoping Pete gets hold of a Saitek Yoke and has a play with it. I know he will be impressed and will be able to produce an update that allows full programming of all the yoke's facilities.

Not likely I'm afraid. Doesn't it have some sort of display on it too? Many modern USB devices are not just standard joystick "HID" (Human Interface) devices, and so are not dealt with via standard Windows libraries. Such devices have proprietary protocols with drivers for those aspects supplied by their manufacturer. The only way for your request to be met, I think, would be to ask Saitek to have a mode in their software which made the Mode switch transparent, as a normal button in the range 1-32.

Regards

Pete

[BAW019]

Don't know if this helps at all but when I got my Saitek Yoke I tried it before I installed the drivers. It worked fine and the mode switch showed up as three separate switches in the Windows Game Controller interface. It was only when I installed the Saitek drivers that the mode switch vanished or became a dedicated (and hidden) mode switch.

You could try un-installing the Saitek drivers to see if it's reversible but I've no idea if that would work.

All the best

Ian

[John Veldthuis]

The mode button just shows up as normal button presses. They just stay on.

Read the FSUIPC advanced stuff and look up compound buttons. This is what I am using and you can do wonders with them.

The below from the FSUIPC4.ini file maps the left hand button to send either 1, 2, or 3 depending on if mode switch

1=CP(+1,8)1,0,K49,8

2=CP(+1,9)1,0,K50,8

3=CP(+1,10)1,0,K51,8

[Pete Dowson]

The mode button just shows up as normal button presses. They just stay on.

Oh, good. So, FSUIPC should see it (or them, rather) when you change from one mode to another. It should see one "mode" being released and the next pressed. It is the transition from released state to pressed state which is detected in the options dialogue.

Regards

Pete

[tumbi]

Read the FSUIPC advanced stuff and look up compound buttons. This is what I am using and you can do wonders with them.

Oh OK. I am not yet into the Advanced stuff so it looks like I'll have to go do some more reading. John, would it be convenient for you to send a copy of your FSUIPC.INI file to make it easier for us newbies to get started? Or would it be better if I just went and started from scratch?

Anyway, last night I was working on a work-around and came online to tell the world about it. Now I see there is probably a better way and all my good work is for nothing... (sob). Oh well, I'll tell you anyway - heh heh. It just might be of some help to those not yet into the Advanced stuff?

The work-around:

Firstly I removed all the joystick buttons Assignments in the FS9 Options/Controls/Assignments dialog, just to avoid any confusion.

Secondly, I created a new Profile in the Saitek Profile Editor and assigned some unused keystroke combinations to all the Yoke's buttons in all three modes. Use whatever you like, but I used Ctrl-Alt combinations, so for example switch A1 was assigned Ctrl-Alt A in Mode 1, Ctrl-Alt B in Mode 2etc. It doesn't matter what those key combinations are, so long as they are not used by anything else. Windows sometimes used Ctrl-Alt "something" as a Shortcut key so if you have any of those, just avoid that key-combination and use another one! Having done that, save the Profile; then you can forget all about those key combinations! No, you don't have to remember what was assigned to what!

Having done that, whenever you press a button on the Yoke now, the Saitek driver (which sees all the Yoke activity before FSUIPC does) will generate unique codes for each button in each mode. Yes, I know that particular key combination is rather meaningless at this stage, but at least we get a unique output for each button in each mode.

Thirdly, and finally, go into FSUIPC to configure the Yoke's buttons. The difference with this work-around is you configure "Key Presses" in FSUIPC and not "Buttons + Switches".

For example to configure button A1 in Mode 1 to uh, set the Wing Leveller, click the Key Presses Tab, then click Set. Now, instead of pressing a keyboard key, press the A1 button with the Yoke in Mode 1. FSUIPC will get (using my example) Ctrl-Alt A and you can then assign the Wing Leveller function to that "key". If you change to Mode 2 and click the A1 button, FSUIPC will see a different key (in my case you will get Ctrl-Alt B) so you can then configure a different function to that same button in Mode 2. As I said, it doesn't matter what that key combination was, the only thing that matters is that FSUIPC now sees each button differently in each mode!

It might not be as elegant as the Advanced programming, but it does work for me.

Tony

[mtjoeng]

Read the FSUIPC advanced stuff and look up compound buttons. This is what I am using and you can do wonders with them.

Oh OK. I am not yet into the Advanced stuff so it looks like I'll have to go do some more reading. The work-around:

Firstly I removed all the joystick buttons Assignments in the FS9 Options/Controls/Assignments dialog, just to avoid any confusion.

Hi

just have started to figure out compound buttons for my Saitek also.

it's reeeeally worthwhile to do the trial-by-error to figure this out for

your 'workaround' seems like a looot more work.

EDIT: you can "on the fly" test your re-definition(s) by hitting "relaod button definition"

the jest of it I'll discribe here

in your .ini all button pushes are assigend to #joystick and #button

just define with action you want and figure out the editing of a certain button

for instance

I want the "left back button" (#0) to do a "ctrl+space" to set to "default reset viewpoint" WHEN in (saitek button) mode 3

my Mode#3 is defines as ExternalView button F11

(do NOT have the Saitek USB software loaded / uninstall this, else FSUIPC can NOT see your Saitek 3-way Mode BUTTON)

so

chk this left back button #0 in the FSUIPC Menu

mine (depending what order FSX found your joysticks at initiallization, Yoke first=0) is Joyst.#0 button#0 / so code is <0,0>

hit saitek mode3 button and shows: (if Joyst.#0) button#10 / so code is <0,10>

do we pulse (hit Once) or repeat or hold or release the button?

page 11: pulse value is

"FSUIPC4 for Advanced Users.pdf"

page 12: spacebar Keyboard value is <32>, thus is

page 13: ctrl+ is appended value <10>, thus <,10>

page 14 COMPOUND BUTTON CONDITIONS: n=CP(+j2,b2)j,b, .. and followed by action code

thus there's a value for conditions,

and the conditional mode is mode3, which was found to be value 0,10 and this must be , thus a <+> added, so <+0,10>

thus condition mode3 for back left button (page 14):

n=CP(+0,10)0,0, <= condition "0,10" is ON "+" for button "0,0" (when joystick is "0") and expect a "P"ush

the Action we want is ctrl backspace

"K32,10"

add this in the 'formula':

n=CP(+0,10)0,0,K32,10

n= is the next defined action#, any unique in sequence in your [buttons], mine, with Yoke, ThrottleQ, Rudder, Joystick (a Lot) ended "30="

so above 30=

31=CP(+0,10)0,0,K32,10

and to backtrack above:

additional [buttons] definition #31 (yours will be different) / 31=

WHEN my mode button is mode#3 and expecting a Pulse Action P / CP(+0,10)

FOR button number 0,0 (yours may be 1,0 if for instance your Yoke is #1 and not #0) / 0,0,

DO K32,10 that is ctrl+space / K32,10

voila

and is an explanation for John Veldthuis post of:

1=CP(+1,8)1,0,K49,8

2=CP(+1,9)1,0,K50,8

etc

My updated definition of button 0,0 WHEN mode#3 is:

31=CP(+0,10)0,0,K8,8 / BACKSPACE, is zoom 0, with my mode#3 defined F11 external view

32=CP(+0,10)0,0,K32,10 / ctrl+space "set view behind plane"

33=CP(+0,10)0,0,K38,9 / SHFT-UP ARROW, shift Up the view 1 notch

34=CP(+0,10)0,0,K38,9 / repeat UP

35=CP(+0,10)0,0,K38,9 / repeat UP

36=CP(+0,10)0,0,K38,9 / repeat UP

and I push this f.i. after landing at rollout, to see where Im going / looking for a runway exit, and chk the states of flaps and spoilers

I also have

TRIM up down WHEN in Panel mode

and view reset WHEN in VC mode

etc.

a lot to figure out but WHEN you did, you only define those few buttons, that you really want / and saves a lot of time

my 2 cnts, mt

[nirgal76]

The mode button on the Saitek yoke use standard HID protocol but is masked by the saitek driver.

it dosen't appears in the yoke HID input report (by HID API, cf. WDK).

But if you want to unmask it, try this :

Open the property sheet of the yoke in the windows control panel (where you can see this mode button)

and now, the mode button is unmasked (but you have to let the control panel open !

with this tweak, I can see it now in the yoke hid input report so i supposed it is unmasked for DirectInput and so, for FSX too (and FSUIPC)

i'm trying to understand how the control panel unmask the button but it is not easy and i don't have many time...

[mtjoeng]

The mode button on the Saitek yoke use standard HID protocol but is masked by the saitek driver.

it dosen't appears in the yoke HID input report (by HID API, cf. WDK).

I just have NOT installed the Saitek driver.

A problem maybe if you use another flightsim, but I havent yet.

[nirgal76]

additional information :

the mode button is a 'radio button' made with 3 buttons (9 10 & 11).

mode 1 => button 9 pressed (HID usage 0x9 of buttons HID usage page)

mode 2 => button 10 pressed (HID usage 0xa of buttons HID usage page)

mode 3 => button 11 pressed (HID usage 0xb of buttons HID usage page)

(tested by logging hid input report of the yoke by HID API while yoke control panel was open to unmask mode buttons)

[nirgal76]

http://forums.simflight.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=68972

[arf1410]

Just bought the Siatek Yoke and throttle...did NOT install the included software yet...and about 1/2 of the buttons were programmed nicely...as far as program the remaining buttons...I haev no idea as to what functions to program them to do. Are there any "standard" settings? Also...should I do this with Flight SIm (2004), or by using the included Siatek CD ROM?

[mtjoeng]

Are there any "standard" settings?

mode 1,2,3 VC Panel Spot makes sensible 'standard'

everything else is up to you

mode 1 VC

pan left/right

zoom in/out

trim up/down (or show instrument 1/2)

button1; zoom 1 reset panel view

mode 2 Panelview

W / shft W (minipanel)

zoom in/out

trim up/down

button 1: used for "Flag" "Compound" setting for multiple Main Panels: minipanel | LandingView | Standard | Copilot

mode 3 Locked spotview

pan left/right

zoom in/out

trim up/down

button1: lock behind plane / zoom 1

etc etc

mine are very much about view switching

but easy to imagine someone wants to keep Trim Left / Right when flying VFR all the time like Cessna or Mooney

I fly mostly B734, and only use Up/Down Trim, so that started the rearranging of buttons

check out 'compound' buttons, buttons behave differently in different mode

'Flag' is hard to understand, see my other post for an example

Also...should I do this with Flight SIm (2004), or by using the included Siatek CD ROM?

neither

you can start by just rearranging the FS options / settings / controls, and get used to your Saitek

but after a while you will encounter the limitations of that, and you'll want to mix in with FSUIPC definitions

and then you''ll have to delete most FS assignments and do all your assignments in fsuipc, because fsuipc assignments can be way superior to FS's, but you will have to study the fsuipc manuals and that will take a while

[arf1410]

mine are very much about view switching

but easy to imagine someone wants to keep Trim Left / Right

but with simple "plug and play" it already is configured for lots of view switching...I can't possibly think one would need to program in MORE view switching???

[mtjoeng]

but with simple "plug and play" it already is configured for lots of view switching...I can't possibly think one would need to program in MORE view switching???

if you cannot think of anythink more:

if you're happy, you're happy

[arf1410]

but with simple "plug and play" it already is configured for lots of view switching...I can't possibly think one would need to program in MORE view switching???

if you cannot think of anythink more:

if you're happy, you're happy

I'm happy with teh VIEW option on the Yoke, but what other sort of functions should be added, and is there any sort of "standard" layout?

[mtjoeng]

I'm happy with teh VIEW option on the Yoke, but what other sort of functions should be added, and is there any sort of "standard" layout?

apart from basics, and is the design of the yoke, apart from VC Panel Spot, you can consider Real AC yokes, that - different per AC type - have either:

a TO/GA button, a COM (ATC) button, an AP Disconnect button etc. right on the Yoke (I definately need a COM button because I fly on VATSIM alot)

Perhaps you can indeed check the default Saitek assignements, and you just start flying.

You will run into the buttons you want while flying.

Consider

Show Overhead Panel / FMC / GPS / any panel etc

interact with AP: increase/decrease SPD HDG ALT V/S etc

interact with lights: Landinglight Taxi lights on/off

Gear up/down

Spoiler down/arm/up

Flaps all increments

Prop advance

Mix advance

anything you can think of according to the Real Checklist of the Aircraft Type

when you fly first 1. Cessna and then 2. PIC737, you have a problem with assignments

thats where fsuipc comes in

just fly any procedure with specific plane, and when u think 'at this very moment i would like a button' ..