Lost the throttle control??

[B42L8]

I have the W7 FSX, just put in the latest upgrade today..........but here is the problem, I have been using the reg. copy with the FSX since I installed W7, no real problems, but last few days I have been updating Ultimate Traffic 2, (can't bellieve they are connected), and for some reason the levers on my CH Quadrant, will not stay calibrated in FSX, and in FSUIPC, they do not function at all??? Tried resetting, recalibrating, everything I could think of, put in 4.57, still no control, funny, the mixture and prop levers work fine??............just tried it again, no FSUIPC control, but the throttles are smooth thru FSX.........anybody have a fix, or at least have some idea of where the gremlins are hiding?????? B42L8

[Pete Dowson]

... and for some reason the levers on my CH Quadrant, will not stay calibrated in FSX, and in FSUIPC, they do not function at all??? Tried resetting, recalibrating, everything I could think of, put in 4.57, still no control

Sounds like the joysticks are timing out. There's a new check in 4.57 to stop hangs. But it turned out to be too tight for some folks' systems with apparently occasionally slow responding joysticks.

Please see the Updates and Other Goodies Announcement above, where this is one of the problems listed as fixed in the interim updates, along with others. The first fix was available there within a couple of days of 4.57's release. It would always be worth your while looking at such Announcements from time to time, especially if you have any problems.

Regards

Pete

[B42L8]

Will do as you suggest.....but after doing your update, I deinstalled the Ultimate Traffic 2 , then put in their latest full update program (there have been a lot of small betas and fixing), and did a good defrag.........and on the first startup, the CH controls worked FINE!!......I don't understand all the programming stuff, so not even sure there is any affect on each other, but it worked last night, and my REX seemed to be better as well.................other item, did the appearance of the FSUIPC window change?? Seems like it was more streamlined, but I may just be loosing it???????? Will check again....thanks, B42L8

[Pete Dowson]

... did the appearance of the FSUIPC window change?? Seems like it was more streamlined

Not the layout, it's just bigger, so there's probably more space. It is now set to use "Shell Fonts" (whatever they might be), because it seems on some Windows systems the normal fonts I was using can make the inside parts (the Tabbed sections) too big for the outer part (the main dialogue with the OK button on it). When that happens folks can't see all the optionstook a lot of research and trial and error to find this solution!

Regards

Pete

[B42L8]

I put in the last update, and installed the latest CH Control Manager (clicking to run as administrator), then back to FSX, got the throttles to work without snapping around or dropping back to zero, but every time I clicked on FSUIPC and the calibration, the mixture and prop levers function, but no life in the throttles??.......tried various settings, resets, anything I could think of, but nothing works...........they just went dead yesterday?????? I am at a total loss now, tried to find something in the manual, but no luck.....anybody have an idea for a fix?? But the UT2 works, so not all is lost today.........B42L8

[Pete Dowson]

I put in the last update, and installed the latest CH Control Manager (clicking to run as administrator), then back to FSX, got the throttles to work without snapping around or dropping back to zero, but every time I clicked on FSUIPC and the calibration, the mixture and prop levers function, but no life in the throttles?

There no difference to FSUIPC4 between mixture prop or throttle. they are all just axes, all the same. How are they assigned, in FS or in FSUIPC4? If in FSUIPC4, are they assigned direct or via FS controls? It is difficult to suggest anything to help with no information at all. Perhaps you should enable Axis logging, do your thing, show both FSUIPC4.INI and FSUIPC4.LOG files.

From what I've read quite a lot of folks seem to have difficulties trying to use both CH Manager and FSUIPC4 for the same controls. Could this be a source of confusion, perhaps? What do the folks over at the CH Hangar site say?

Regards

Pete

[Bob Church]

Hi Pete,

>> Sounds like the joysticks are timing out. There's a new check in 4.57 to stop hangs. But it turned out to be too tight for some folks' systems with apparently occasionally slow responding joysticks. <<

PMJI, but timing out where? A USB stick isn't required to send any data at all until it moves, it can sit there for days and not send a report. The sim, etc. are collecting buffered data from HIDClass once per frame, the USB stick sends data in a packet that was already pended by HIDClass and held at the host controller level until the stick has something to say.

>> From what I've read quite a lot of folks seem to have difficulties trying to use both CH Manager and FSUIPC4 for the same controls. Could this be a source of confusion, perhaps? What do the folks over at the CH Hangar site say? <<

It's almost invariably a problem with FS doing a "Reset Defaults" because it detects a configuration change of some sort. If there's a map running, then the devices are all renamed and FS has no default settings so they give them "GENERIC". Ailerons, Elevator, et al, don't result in a great FS user experience when they're assigned to the levers on the TQ. If there's no map running (usually the case when it's used with FS) it uses the real names and FS has defaults for most of those, but the Throttle Quad predated FSX so through FS9 it still gets GENERIC. The only other oddity is that the 4th and 6th axes are swapped. It's set up X, Y, Z, ZRot, YRot, XRot where FS wants X, Y, Z XRot, YRot, ZRot. The 4th axis being the traditional rudder axis, putting it in the 6th position as Z Rotation will break any sim that looks for 4th axis rudder since. It only needs to be reassigned in FS to fix it.

The CM plays with the data as it comes up to HIDClass. HIDClass feeds DirectX, DirectX feeds FS, and FS feeds FSUIPC. FSUIPC isn't even aware that it's there. If the values move in FS, FSUIPC shouldn't have any trouble.

One note. FS9 and FSX running under the 64-bit versions of Vista and Win7 erroneously pop the Windows calibration applet from within FS when it should pop the CH applet. A Windows calibration will throw the CM completely out of whack, the Windows data needs to be cleared or the CM can't do what it's supposed to.

I'm with you on Win98. I still use it for initial development and then use different compilers for the "up" versions. The CM was actually written on Win98 with the same editor and keyboard that I used when I helped you with the Epic VxD. When was that, FS95 or FS98? I think we're getting old. :)

Best regards,

- Bob

The StickWorks

http://www.stickworks.com

[peterhayes]

Hi Bob

These points come to mind:

If you are using CHCM in "mapped mode" wouldn't you say that there is little point in assigning the same axis or button on FSUIPC (unless you can't do it in CHCM) as you have already assigned/calibrated in CHCM?

If you then assign in FSUIPC4 won't you have a "double assignment" and won't that cause the issues we are discussing here?

Can you assign, calibrate some axes, etc in a CHCM map and also assign/calibrate different (non-duplicate) axes in FSUIPC4?

If you have assigned/calibrated all of your axes via a CHCM "map" can you still "fine tune" those axes in FSUIPC4?

If you have assigned/calibrated all of your axes via a CHCM "map", if you open FSX and delete say a particular axis, etc assignment, can you then assign that axis, etc in FSUIPC4 without any issues?

Now if we are using CHCM in Direct Mode as long as there are no duplicate axes in FSX and FSUIPC4 then everything should be OK?

Regards

PeterH

[Pete Dowson]

PMJI, but timing out where? A USB stick isn't required to send any data at all until it moves

Timing out the new Joystick Timeout I added to prevent lockups in the buttons ansd Axes tabs through rogue joystick drivers. The timeout is on the "joyGetPosEx" call to Windows. That should always return, no matter what the joystick driver is doing. But a lot of hangs in the FSUIPC options have occurred simply because it is scanning all possible joystick numbers and sometimes folks have had old drivers installed for long-gone joysticks which then take an age to return. If that time is longer than the poll interval, it appears to be hung.

The CM plays with the data as it comes up to HIDClass. HIDClass feeds DirectX, DirectX feeds FS, and FS feeds FSUIPC. FSUIPC isn't even aware that it's there. If the values move in FS, FSUIPC shouldn't have any trouble.

Yes, but a lot of folks are assigning direct in FSUIPC these days, so FS's stuff doesn't come into it. On FSUIPC3 the joyGetPosEx calls are still used, not the DirectX ones. For buttons and switches FSUIPC4 also uses joyGetPosEx, not directX.

Thanks for all the info. I'm sure it'll help some. I've got no CH gear at all these days.

Best Regards

Pete

[B42L8]

Thanks for the posts, but, being a simple engineer, I do not understand if, or what , the fix is to get the throttles back in operation (thru FSUIPC that is).........I do know that the 4th and 6th lever do get mixed up once in a while, but I go back to FSX calibration and reset, then it works...............I will try to remove the CHCM and give it another try...............would be an interesting poll number to see how much time we serious simmers spend fixing vs. flying..........I am about 80/20!!.........don't even have time to take off anymore.......regards, B42L8

[Pete Dowson]

Thanks for the posts, but, being a simple engineer, I do not understand if, or what , the fix is to get the throttles back in operation (thru FSUIPC that is).........I do know that the 4th and 6th lever do get mixed up once in a while, but I go back to FSX calibration and reset, then it works.

FSX doesn't offer any calibration. It relies completely on Windows (driver) calibration. What do you "reset" and how?

You must ALWAYS calibrate, before running FSX, in Windows "game controllers" or, possibly, the driver that comes with your device. Normally installing the device will update the driver which Windows' games controller accesses. THEN when you run FSX you have a choice. Assign in FSX or assign in FSUIPC4. You need to decide. if you are already assigning in FSUIPC4, why are you making that choice when you have things working well with FS assignments?

If you assign in FSUIPC4, again there is a choice -- assigning direct to FSUIPC4 calibration or, the default: assigning to the FSx controls. Whilst the former is more efficient (it cuts some paths out), sometimes the add-on aircraft you may be using need to see the FSX controls. That is why that route is defaulted.

If you do assign in FSUIPC4 and not in FSX you should be very careful to ensure that the same controls are not also assigned in FSX -- you will get conflicts if you have dual assignments. Generally it is much better to either assign everything in FSUIPC4 and disable controllers in FSX completely, or to assign axes only in FSX. Note that if controllers aren't explicitly disabled FS does have a tendency to re=assign automatically, especially if you ever unplug your controllers and plug them in again, even in the same sockets.

THEN, no matter how or which way you assign, you can still calibrate in FSUIPC4. If you assigned "direct to FSUIPC calibration" then you MUST calibrate in FSUIPC4, else the controls won't work. But if you used either of the other two methods of assignment, the controls should still work without FSUIPC4 calibration, and the latter is merely something you do for more accuracy, or a different type of response, or possibly to map your single control onto multiple ones in order, for example, to get a reverse zone on a throttle.

If any of this is giving you a problem then please identify exactly where you have the problem, and how you got to that stage. Maybe showing your FSUIPC4 settings (the FSUIPC4.INI file in the modules folder) will help show what you've done. I seem to recall i mentioned other types of information which might come in useful, too, like logs with Axis logging enabled? Some time ago I think. This thread seems to have got rather, er, stretched?

Regards

Pete

[B42L8]

Again, thanks as always..........I mis spoke, when levers 4 and 6 got mixed up, I went back to FSX and re-assigned those two levers, did not calibrate............what I have been doing, (and maybe others do the same??), is to start FSX, then check the settings, which usually do not stay constant :( , reset the quadrant assignments, check and fix the buttons, then check the levers......now I do the "fly now", then go to Modules, FSUIPC, and calibrate, (usually all levers stay the same from the last start, but lately the throttles do not respond???)............and before I put the latest UT2-SP1, usually the CH controls work OK...after this, I am having these issues, but have no way of knowing if there is any real affect if this had any part in the problem.............and I like the FSUIPC as I can use two engine controls and sync the levers.............also, in XP, there was a control panel setting for "game controllers"..........I have not found that in W7, so I loaded the CH CM??..........Is there a problem in what I am doing so far??? Question, if I delete the CHCM, and stop the "enable joystick" in FSX, and set the axis and calibrate the levers and buttons in FS

FSUIPC, will this work with both single and twin engine planes, and stay the same every time I start FSX?? (I will have to go back into the manual to see how to set the levers and buttons in the FSUIPC).................hope this makes sense and the answer will help others as well..............B42L8

[Pete Dowson]

Again, thanks as always..........I mis spoke, when levers 4 and 6 got mixed up, I went back to FSX and re-assigned those two levers, did not calibrate.

So you do assign in FS, not in FSUIPC?

..what I have been doing, (and maybe others do the same??), is to start FSX, then check the settings, which usually do not stay constant :(

The assignments in FSX change? As far as I know that can only happen if you are disconnecting and reconnecting your controls. Are you doing so?

The other thing to check is that you don't have USB power management enabled. If you do then Windows will switch off your controls if they aren't used for a while. That could mean they are not detected when FSX first boots up. To switch off power management go into Device Manager and find the Properties for each USB device/hub listed.

, reset the quadrant assignments, check and fix the buttons, then check the levers......now I do the "fly now", then go to Modules, FSUIPC, and calibrate, (usually all levers stay the same from the last start, but lately the throttles do not respond???)

If you've assigned an axis in FSX and it doesn't respond in FSUIPC, then it can only be that the sensitivity slider in FSX is too low. The sensitivity slider should be at max (full right) and the null zone slider at min (full left). These don't matter if you aren't assigning in FS, but are crucial if you are!

..also, in XP, there was a control panel setting for "game controllers"..........I have not found that in W7

Have you tried the obvious? Press the Start button (bottom left), and in the little edit box you see (where it says "search programs and files") enter "Game controllers" and hit Enterit comes right up. Alternatively, in "Control Panel" you will find "Devices and Printers" and among the Devices listed there you should see individual "Game Controller" entries for each recognised joystick type device installed.

if I delete the CHCM, and stop the "enable joystick" in FSX, and set the axis and calibrate the levers and buttons in FS FSUIPC, will this work with both single and twin engine planes, and stay the same every time I start FSX?? (I will have to go back into the manual to see how to set the levers and buttons in the FSUIPC).................hope this makes sense and the answer will help others as well..............B42L8

Many folks do disable game controllers entirely in FSX and assign everything in FSUIPC, and, of course, it works with any aircraft. In fact with FSUIPC you can have different assignments for different aircraft, automatically changing when you change aircraft (e.g yoke for Boeing, joystick for Airbus, G-stick for Helo, etc). However, if you want to keep things simple, get things working in FS. You should get things working in FS first in any case, because problems like the power management one will defeat any software.

Take a look at some of the helpful documents available. The one from SimSamurai is quite good, even though it is talking about FS9 it nearly all applies to FSX too. Also there's a guide for CH users in the "stickie" threads near the top of the forum.

Regards

Pete

[B42L8]

First part reply.........yes, I did the search for the game controller and it jumped to the CHCM, (but I was looking for the Windows game controller that showed up in W XP, looks like when CHCM is running, Windows defaults to it??, IS the Window controller the same as the FSX one??)..............And yes, good idea to do more checking in the posts........(and I am putting this in here in thought that someone else can learn from my goofs)............As I tried more corrections, I got the levers to work but the buttons went dead, UGH!..........so did two things, one, I rescanned the controllers in CHCM, and I got the W7 sounds that everything was hooked up, then I pulled the USB lines from the computer to reset the CH stuff (maybe did that first??)...........then reset the levers and buttons in FSX...........now everything is working again,( I am never quite sure how I get out of these holes)........BUT, when clicking on Modules, FSUIPC, I still get NO movement in the throttles?????....As Pete said, get it working in FSX first, so it is, but seemed to me that I had ability to set the separate throttles before, but maybe that was before I put in the CHCM..............it works for now, so all OK................Oh, one other item, I recall that in XP, we were supposed to "clear all weather" when using REX, is this still true in W7, FSX?? B42L8

[Pete Dowson]

First part reply.........yes, I did the search for the game controller and it jumped to the CHCM

That simply means that CHCM is the installed "Game Controller" for that device. You will get default Windows Game Controllers for devices for which you've not installed a specific driver.

..BUT, when clicking on Modules, FSUIPC, I still get NO movement in the throttles?

Not enough information there. Where are you looking, Axis assignment or joystick calibration? Where is the throttle then assigned? Are you perhaps looking at the 4-throttles page when you only have a single generic throttle assigned, whether in FS or FSUIPC?

There are too many possibilities to even guess what you are doing and what you are seeing. If you look through the thread so far, you can see it's really just been going in circles, getting no where. If you want to resolve anything you need to stop and provide information, real solid black-and-white information.

Oh, one other item, I recall that in XP, we were supposed to "clear all weather" when using REX, is this still true in W7, FSX?? B42L8

Why would you need to do that for REX anyway? Is it in their instructions? If you are using it to control the weather it should be able to clear the weather on its own. Otherwise it would be a rather poor weather control program, don't you think?

Regards

Pete

[B42L8]

As usual, I have egg on the face............I finally figured out that with W7, I have to install and run programs using the "RUN AS ADMINISTRATOR" RIGHT CLICK, not just left click starts......I re-installed the CHCM as Administrator and now all the levers and buttons work as detailed in the SimSamurai manual...........and I reinstalled the FSUIPC updates same way and now ALL the levers are showing up in the Axis and Calibration as should be.........With the old XP, I was the administrator for all uses, but with W7, this requires that I have to make sure to right click to run!!........maybe this will help others..........and appreciate your patience in trying to solve the self made problems of some of your users.........So far, I have started FSX four times, and each time the calibration settings have stayed constant, the buttons in the same place, so hope this is the final solution.................regards, B42L8

[Pete Dowson]

I finally figured out that with W7, I have to install and run programs using the "RUN AS ADMINISTRATOR" RIGHT CLICK, not just left click starts.

Well, you most certainly should not have to do that. I never use "run as administrator" in that way, but then I never allow FS to install where it wants to do. This mainly started out as a desire to have a simple path to FS, like "C:\FS9" or "D:\FSX" rather than "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Flight Simulator 2004". And this alone avoids most of the problems on Vista and Windows 7 because many of them are associated with the protection against users for everything installed in Program Files (or Program Files (x86) on 64-bit versions).

Regards

Pete