Tower! 2011 Arrivals problem

[Methos]

Hey all!  I've really been getting into Tower! 2011 lately and finally decided to make my own real world schedule for KBOS with Real Traffic.  Used all scheduled flights from "Flightstats" for April 14, 2016 .. had to tweak a few things to balance arrivals and departures but, it came out solid .. TONS of traffic now!

 

But, I'm having an issue with arrivals and have been tracking it by playing about an hour or 2 and then checking the tower.txt file.  (I delete it after each play to generate a new one with current results - I know someone's going to ask.  ;) )

 

So the error messages being recorded are, "close cross incoming range."  Sometimes it's just one instance repeated over and over but more often, it's a group of them.  As I entered actual arrival data, there are many cases of scheduled arrivals at the same time slot so I went back and tweak the arrivals again, making sure to place at least 2 minutes between them wherever possible though there are some with just 1 minute separation still.  I have been testing using a real world setup of arrivals coming in on 22L and 27.  I guess I need to understand how Tower handles approach handoffs to the tower and how much time I need to allow between arrivals in my schedule.txt.  Some of the arrivals do end up showing up eventually and that's good .. because it makes it less predictable and more life like .. but others seem to get dropped at a certain point.  Any assistance is appreciated.  Thanks!

 

~ John

[Ty Jackson]

Hey, 

 

Thanks for responding to my other posts. I play BOS a lot and created a schedule that is supposed to offer 1200 flights. Hourly the schedule is supposed to provide average 84 aircraft per hour, however it often depends on my runaway configuration. I usually try to operate real world, with 4R, 4L, and 9 open for arrival, which gives me about 70 aircraft per hour. If I use a smaller configuration (22R,22L or 33L,27) then my traffic average is only about 50ish. My only thoughts are that adding arrival runways may provide more traffic. However I've noticed that aircraft will only come in >= 5 miles apart even if they are operating different runways, so that may be a programming limit. (all testing was done during the same Zulu time and same Arr/Dep slider settings).

 

p.s. have you noticed when operating in Southeast flow (Arr: 22L and 27 Dep: 22R) that if an a/c is on takeoff roll on 22R while an a/c is on landing roll out on 27 you will get a ground collision alert?

Naturally, I figured that this would be acceptable operation seeing as how 22R and 27 do not intersect aside from the blast pad area. I've even checked the airport editor and verified that the active runway portions don't intersect, but the issue persists. So I have to sequence departures and arrivals like I would for single runway ops.

[Avwriter]

p.s. have you noticed when operating in Southeast flow (Arr: 22L and 27 Dep: 22R) that if an a/c is on takeoff roll on 22R while an a/c is on landing roll out on 27 you will get a ground collision alert?

Naturally, I figured that this would be acceptable operation seeing as how 22R and 27 do not intersect aside from the blast pad area. I've even checked the airport editor and verified that the active runway portions don't intersect, but the issue persists. So I have to sequence departures and arrivals like I would for single runway ops.

This is a known limitation of the game.  It will ding you for parallel operations on close runways (as you find in KBOS and KSFO), because it is not smart enough to tell the difference between the space around runways and regular airspace.  You can beat this problem by carefully staggering your parallel operations.  Alternatively you can just ignore the warnings and keep on playing. 

[Methos]

In fact, I have noticed that issue with 22R and 27 but it's normally not an issue for me as I only use 22R sparingly for departures.  All my testing has been done using a SE traffic flow of 22L and 27 for arrivals (I'll bump props over to 22R so they don't cause problems with a row of jets on 22L but I don't have 22R set to receive arrivals naturally).  I test with only 2 runways because I want the traffic to work with other configurations too.  I basically check the current conditions and set up the runways that way, just to be more random.  When it comes to parallel runway ops with 22L and 22R (departures) I always instruct 22L to turn left heading 140 and that keeps things smooth.

 

As for the arrivals, I did read in another post (after rummaging through the forum) that 3-5 minutes between arrivals tends to work.  I'm aiming for at least 2 and see how it goes.  The most arrivals I have is between 1800-1900 (41) that's in addition to departures.  I find departures aren't an issue at all, as there are some times when I have up to 14 departures leaving at the same time (makes it fun!)

 

One other thing I've been doing (just to make things difficult on myself - Lol) is to somewhat act as departure controller too.  When aircraft reach the 5 mile marker, I turn them on a heading toward BLZZR, HYLND, REVSS, etc. depending on their destination .. then at 10 miles, I hand them off.  Just makes things more interesting.  :p

 

Thanks for the replies!

[Methos]

I also recently had the joy of watching approach vector an Emirates A388 onto runway 27 .. had the runway escape error and watching him roll right into the drink. In what universe would you land an A388 there???  Lol  That may be another "glitch" or something, as technically the runway DID meet the required length for landing .. BARELY.  Had something similar with an A340 I believe, (A345?).  So it's either mod the aircraft files or watch for them and correct approach's mistakes and vector them manually somewhere else.

[Methos]

Problem solved!  Unfortunately, it calls for the ceasing of all operations at KBOS by Cape Air.  Those little twin props were the problem all along.  "Approach" wouldn't send ANYTHING in behind one of them for several minutes and that backed up everything.

 

I did a test with 30 arrivals only, every 2 minutes with multiple runway patterns .. I did a standard 22L / 27 and would slip props onto 22R as they came in .. then did one with 22L and 22R both taking arrivals.  Same result.  Even when approach put props on 227, they still left gaps for 22L as if it was a single runway operation.  Pulled the C402's out of the mix and those 30 arrivals came in with only about 30 seconds extra whereas before, I was 30 minutes into the next hour still recovering planes.

[scoobflight]

Those little twin props were the problem all along.  "Approach" wouldn't send ANYTHING in behind one of them for several minutes and that backed up everything.

 

just like in the real world ... :mrgreen:

[Methos]

just like in the real world ... :mrgreen:

Right?  Lol  Thing is, I wanted that so I would have to send the props elsewhere (like 22R) so that would free up 22L or even 27.  But .......

 

So I can keep Cape Air and screw up everything or .... drop them and see how it goes.  I'm looking at playing around the whole 24 hour schedule just to see how everything works .. play a few hours then pause it, next day play a few more, etc.  If I leave Cair in there, many of my arrivals that I need to turn for departures probably won't make it in.  :p