PMDG 777 front wheel not turning sufficient

[Morten]

P3Dv4.4
FSUIPC 5.15
PMDG 777

Can't seem to configure my Saitek pedals correct through "send direct to FSUIPC Calibration" along with PMDG 777.
Brakes and rudder works fine, but the front wheel works poorly, which means that I have to use my throttles violently as a compensation in order to make sharp turns.

For my Saitek pedals ONLY I previously through the years used to send my Axis to "FS as normal axis" (rest of the "joysticks" direct to FSUIPC) which worked fine until FSUIPC/P3Dv4.3. From then on my other "joystick", my yoke, went totally bananas and out of control! No surprise here, as according to the manual, one is not supposed to mix  "send direct to FSUIPC Calibration" and  "FS as normal axis"...anyway this worked for a long time, until now when I don't seem to have no other choice than let all my axis on all my "joysticks" assign to  "send direct to FSUIPC Calibration", which in practise wont work for my pedals!

What is going wrong here?
Would it perhaps help if I instead use "Send to FSUIPC Offset" ONLY for my pedals mixed with "send direct to FSUIPC Calibration" for the rest of the "joysticks"..?

Cheers,
Morten

Attached files: log and ini.
               

FSUIPC5.ini

FSUIPC5.log

[John Dowson]

Hi Morten,

Quote

as according to the manual, one is not supposed to mix  "send direct to FSUIPC Calibration" and  "FS as normal axis"

what did you see this? Its fine to send one axis to "send direct to FSUIPC Calibration"  and another to "FS as normal axis". Of course, each axis itself can only have one destination.

Can you also check that you have the controllers in P3D disabled (maybe they became active again after your P3D update?).

There is no “front wheel” control used in FSUIPC. You may be able to use the FS control “STEERING SET” which I think was new to one of the releases of P3D and so never used by FSUIPC in its controls. Steering on the ground has always been by rudder operation, hence the blending between the steering tiller operation and the rudder.

“Sharp turns” in a PMDG 777, or really any airliner, need low speeds, and judicious use of differential braking and, yes, occasionally asymmetric thrust (as the aircraft slows even more during the turn). I don't fly PMDG aircraft, but maybe some other PMDG users could help you out here.

 

I'm actually surprised that using “send direct to FSUIPC calibration” on any PMDG Boeing airliner works at all. Those tend to read the control values themselves direct from Simconnect, whilst FSUIPC is calibrating them and sending (possibly different) values at a much lower Simconnect priority level (to avoid an infinite loop). This generally give unwanted jerkiness.

 

Cheers,

 

John

[John Dowson]

Also, please see this thread (originally for FSLabs A320) for a general discussion on steering using the tiller/steering axis rather than rudder:

 

 

 

[Morten]

Hi John

Thanks for your profound suggestions...
Now I totally erased axis for my pedals inside the FSUIPC.ini  and instead established axes directly inside the P3Dv4 controls environment. So far steering is back to normal again.

Cheers,
Morten   

[Pete Dowson]

13 hours ago, Morten said:

Now I totally erased axis for my pedals inside the FSUIPC.ini  and instead established axes directly inside the P3Dv4 controls environment. So far steering is back to normal again.

Assigning in FSUIPC to FS controls is effectively identical to assigning in P3D. The exact same controls are sent to the sim. Only the dedicated "direct to FSUIPC calibration" controls are processed differently.

The P3D steering axis control is also assignable in FSUIPC.

Pete

 

 

[Morten]

Hi Pete and John

On 1/18/2019 at 9:55 AM, Pete Dowson said:

Assigning in FSUIPC to FS controls is effectively identical to assigning in P3D. The exact same controls are sent to the sim. Only the dedicated "direct to FSUIPC calibration" controls are processed differently

I guess, you're right and the problem is still present - probably just me getting more and more use to compensate the lack of turning by using cross throttling...

I read the "FSLabs A320 Steering/Tiller debate" link which John provided me. However I'm afraid it got too nerdy for me and didn't really catch the conclusion, if any.
Please bare over with me, I'm just a regular user and have no skills whatsoever into programming and special FSUIPC mods.

So in simple terms, please;
1. Is there actually a way to mix the tiller facility with my (physical) pedal rudder axis assignment?
2. If so, would I actually benefit with such a mix in order to make my front wheel turning more efficient?

(During turns on the taxiway I notice that the animated tiller on the PMDG 777-200 actually DO turn - whether this animation is actually a valid reflection of a tiller process taking place for real I can't tell)

Cheers,
Morten             

   

[Pete Dowson]

On 2/5/2019 at 10:41 PM, Morten said:

So in simple terms, please;
1. Is there actually a way to mix the tiller facility with my (physical) pedal rudder axis assignment?
2. If so, would I actually benefit with such a mix in order to make my front wheel turning more efficient?

 

FSUIPC can blend input from a tiller axis with that from the rudder pedals, but of course this blending only applies if you have a separate axis for the tiller. It is blending the inputs to give more control to the tiller at low ground speeds, more to the rudder pedals as GS increases. Both are using the rudder axis. By calibrating them separately give can have a more gentle rudder control in the central areas, whilst the tiller is more proportional to the tiller position.

 

With a separate tiller you can either use that facility, or, with P3d now, assign to the Steering axis control instead. That might give more “nose wheel” action, but I doubt it will be more than the rudder gives.

 

Without a separate tiller axis you can’t really do much. You could try assigning the one rudder input to both rudder and steering axes -- FSUIPC allows for multiple axis assignments (up to 4), but I don't know what the results would be like. There's no blending because they are going to different functions in P3D.

 

Pete

 

 

[Morten]

Ok thanks, I'll get it a try.
What is noticeable though, at least in my case, is that this lack of steering came about after updating from P3Dv.4.3 to v.4.4 - might be a random event, might not be... 

/Morten

[Morten]

On 1/9/2019 at 7:41 PM, Morten said:

For my Saitek pedals ONLY I previously through the years used to send my Axis to "FS as normal axis" (rest of the "joysticks" direct to FSUIPC) which worked fine until FSUIPC/P3Dv4.3. From then on my other "joystick", my yoke, went totally bananas and out of control!

Moreover, according to this my previous statement and the following discussion, I've chosen as an experiment to completely keep my pedals out from FSUIPC. Which means that my pedals currently is calibrated within the P3D settings environment only, whereas my throutles and yoke is still calibrated inside the FSUIPC environment and send "direct to FSUIPC".
With this combination I unfortunately still find my yoke going completely bananas and uncontrollable. It will happen mostly during an ILS approach, if I then choose to abort the autolanding and disconnect the autopilot in order to make a visual approach instead, then the yoke will turn all the way to the right and become totally out of control! The only way I can overcome this is by replugging the yoke into the USB slot and from then on it will be controllable again.
All together, for some reason quite a mess here these days...?! 

Cheers,
Morten     

          

[Pete Dowson]

8 hours ago, Morten said:

Which means that my pedals currently is calibrated within the P3D settings environment only, whereas my throutles and yoke is still calibrated inside the FSUIPC environment and send "direct to FSUIPC".
With this combination I unfortunately still find my yoke going completely bananas and uncontrollable.

Unfortunately it isn't a good idea to mix like that, as P3D may decide to auto-assign the other axes. Choose one or the other otherwise you are likely to get conflicts.

The best way to use the FS controls is to assign to FS controls in FSUIPC. They do exactly what the P3D ones would except for allowing P3D to read the axes directly.

Pete

 

[Morten]

Okay Pete, got it! 
In fact my 'some what' common sense already told me before I even started this configuration!..hi, hi...life aint easy.
The steering issue however, is left to solve - not for common sense to solve.. quite a drag...!! 

 

[Morten]

I tried to mix tiller and rudder, assigning both to the pedals through "Send direct to FSUIPC Calibration". Not an option, at least not to my PMDG 777-200. The tiller mix reacted by turning the wheel all the way to each side. Not possible to go straight forward. 

I found the best solution till now, by assigning the axis rudder (no tiller mix) to my pedals and use "Send direct to FS as normal axis". This makes my front wheel turn fully perfect again as it use to couple a month ago!

However my yoke, which is assigned trough "Send direct to FSUIPC Calibration", still go bananas if I choose to turn off the autopilot, as described above.
No axis whatsoever, is no longer assigned inside P3D - Options - Axis Assignments. So what the heck is going on here?     

[Pete Dowson]

Don't just delete assignments in P3D. Tell it not to use any controllers -- a check box in the last option in P3D's Controls Assignments menu.

And test with a default aircraft. Some add-ons do not like FSUIPC's calibration because it results in it sending controls to P3D at a different SimConnect priority.

Pete

 

[Morten]

On 2/14/2019 at 12:02 PM, Pete Dowson said:

Don't just delete assignments in P3D. Tell it not to use any controllers -- a check box in the last option in P3D's Controls Assignments menu.

Pete

 

My dear Pete

This was indeed your best advice of the year!!!!!!!

EVERYTHING now works as expected, yoke, throttles and pedals! Wow! 😃 

[Morten]

However rather strange...
Up till the latest P3Dv4.4 conditions were more tolerant without problems. Now conditions apparently are extremely sensitive in every sense - strictly, either FS control assignments for everything OR strictly assignments through FSUIPC, even including buttons! 😲

Amazing that all my joystick troubles during the last couple of months only comes down to this fact!!

Cheers,
Morten   

[Pete Dowson]

On 2/18/2019 at 6:22 PM, Morten said:

Up till the latest P3Dv4.4 conditions were more tolerant without problems. Now conditions apparently are extremely sensitive in every sense - strictly, either FS control assignments for everything OR strictly assignments through FSUIPC, even including buttons! 😲

Amazing that all my joystick troubles during the last couple of months only comes down to this fact!!

I don't know of any changes in P3D4.4 which could affect this at all. Are you sure there's no other coincidental changes which have been made?

Pete

 

[Morten]

Yes I'm sure. All the sim hardware including throttles, yoke and pedals has been exactly the same all the time.

All I have changed is new monitors and according to those I changed resolutions and the fullscreen setup.
Also installed MS Office. 
And of course I can't tell whether any MS update could have had any influence here.

/Morten   

[Pete Dowson]

With FS assignments do you assign "direct to FSUIPC calibration" or to the FS controls. The latter is the same as assigning in P3D.

And are you calibrating?

The fact that they behave the same whether you use FSUIPC or not really does point to either a change in P3D (from 4.3 to 4.4?), or in your add-on aircraft. Check in the P3D support forum, see if there are any other reports, or report it yourself.

Pete

 

[Morten]

Throttles: "direct to FSUIPC calibration"
Spoilers:  "direct to FSUIPC calibration"
PropPitch: "direct to FSUIPC calibration"
Mixture: "direct to FSUIPC calibration"
Yoke: all axes: "direct to FSUIPC calibration" 
Hat switch on yoke: "Send to FS as normal axis"  (NEW assignment)
Pedals, rudder: "Send to FS as normal axis"  (fairly NEW assignment. Solved front wheel steering problems )
Pedals, brakes:  "Send to FS as normal axis"  (fairly NEW assignment)

P3D "Use Controllers": Disabled (fairly NEW assignment. Solved throttles unable to be calibrated correctly and yoke going bananas after disabling  autopilot)
ALL buttons assigned through FSUIPC (NEW assignment)

______________________________________________________________

"Calibrating?" Yes of course!

"Check in the P3D support forum". No way Pete, check yourself if you like. For my part I'm just happy now that everything works again!

/Morten

  
 

[Pete Dowson]

10 minutes ago, Morten said:

No way Pete, check yourself if you like.

No point, I don't have any over-sensitive controls.

if you are calibrating in FSUIPC why not use the slopes facility to change the sensitivity?

13 minutes ago, Morten said:

For my part I'm just happy now that everything works again!

Ah, okay then! Why the fuss?

Good flying!

Pete

 

[Morten]

2 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

Ah, okay then! Why the fuss?

What?? "all the fuss" .......?
I was struggling my arms off in order to get things right here - I finally ended up with succes, as you well know partly through your advice to disable P3D controls, and partly through my own experiment of letting pedals axes go through  "Send to FS as normal axis". 
So no more "fuss", just happiness. But you asked me about some analytic questions, which I answered. Nothing more to it. 😃

Yes indeed, I'm off flying!
Cheers, Morten     

[Pete Dowson]

On 2/18/2019 at 6:22 PM, Morten said:

Up till the latest P3Dv4.4 conditions were more tolerant without problems. Now conditions apparently are extremely sensitive in every sense - strictly, either FS control assignments for everything OR strictly assignments through FSUIPC, even including buttons! 😲

It was this ultra sensitivity I thought you were fussing about! That's why I asked this:

11 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

The fact that they behave the same whether you use FSUIPC or not really does point to either a change in P3D (from 4.3 to 4.4?), or in your add-on aircraft. Check in the P3D support forum, see if there are any other reports, or report it yourself.

I thought you were now saying that, since updating to P3D4.4 all your controls have become too sensitive!

Pete

 

[Morten]

Ahhh okay.... I'm afraid that you misunderstood me using the term "sensitive" - I'm not literally referring to the joysticks as the being sensitive. They are working perfect now in EVERY sense!
What I was referring to was what was my experience with the newest version of P3Dv4.4 being ultra sensitive/intolerant to mixes between buttons assigned directly under the options of P3Dv4.4 and axis assigned under FSUIPC - with the result of joysticks going bananas! Although not a purely correct mix - anyway at least tolerated in P3D versions up to v 4.4.
All according to what I wrote earlier:

On 2/18/2019 at 7:22 PM, Morten said:

However rather strange...
Up till the latest P3Dv4.4 conditions were more tolerant without problems. Now (mix..,red) conditions apparently are extremely sensitive in every sense - strictly, either FS control assignments for everything OR strictly assignments through FSUIPC, even including buttons! 😲

Amazing that all my joystick troubles during the last couple of months only comes down to this fact!!

Cheers,
Morten   

So, in other words, trough your effective advice, to disable controls completely in P3D and do all calibration and assignments within the FSUIPC environment is what made everything perfect to all my joysticks in P3Dv4.4.  So for now:
- Everything works perfect!
- Happy ending!
- Morten being happy!
- End of troubles!     

Cheers,
Morten        

[Morten]

On 2/21/2019 at 10:58 PM, Morten said:

- Morten being happy!
- End of troubles!     

Oh dear...not quite, actually.

By disabling P3Dv4.4s own joystick controllers and sending everything through FSUIPC - including the brake on my pedals: "to FS as normal axis" I get an allround perfect and steering setup - EXCEPT for the fact that brakes now seems to block 100% whenever I start taxing and after landing. When taxing I have to hit the food brake in order to release brakes which I haven't touched in the first place at all! Upon landing, it's not enough to hit the food brake twice (as in the good old FSX days). The only way I can release brakes here is when turning the Autobrake button off and on several times, otherwise I'm completely stuck in the middle of the runway with ruined tires!

Unfortunately, as I wrote before, to enable P3Dv4.4s own controls only for the pedals is NOT an option for me - Because I'm not allowed to mix my sims controls with FSUIPC as it is. Otherwise my yoke suddenly becomes uncontrollable and go bananas! Frustrating because the sims own controller has an option to define null zones for the brakes which FSUIPC unfortunately don't have (at least to my knowledge). In other words, according to this link, the missing Null zones is what causes exactly this issue:

 https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/512544-777-prepar3d-v4-ils-parked-and-blown-brakes-on-landing/?do=findComment&comment=3662099

Any idea to sort this problem out, strictly, within the FSUIPC environment, please?              

[John Dowson]

Usually you would send the brakes direct to FSUIPC for calibration and reverse them. You shouldn't need a center zone, as the axis goes from -16383 (off) to +16384 (full on).