P3D5 Throttle Axis Issue

[light_blue_yonder]

Solution: The only thing that worked was a complete clean reinstall of P3D, unfortunately. I tried rebuilding the controls config files by deleting them and letting the sim create a new one, and that didn't work. After the reinstall, I can't replicate the problem anymore, so I'm still not sure what actually caused the issue. So I guess that, unfortunately, the only solution is a time-consuming full re-install.

I was recommended by a user on the official LM forums to crosspost here, since the people looking through the forums here may be in a better position to help, even though this may not be a FSUIPC-specific issue:

Hello all,

I'm having a very weird problem with separate throttle axes. This problem happens when assigning axes through P3D or FSUIPC.

In a select few aircrafts, I can move the throttle fine when mapping one axis of my Saitek throttle quadrant to "Throttle axis", and it will move both throttles in the aircraft. But if I assign two axis each to "Throttle 1 axis" and "Throttle 2 axis", neither of them moves the throttles in the aircraft. I can get a response, but it seems like the input jumps up briefly to the position of the throttle before returning to idle. I believe they use the same type of throttle management (i.e. via SimConnect), but I have no idea if this is the cause or not. I have tried reinstalling SimConnect, but had the same problem.

I originally thought this was an Aerosoft problem, since I had this issue in their A32X and CRJ. I recently got myself the Milviz King Air, and ran into the same issue. It seems like aircrafts that use a specific way of interacting with the throttles are having problem. I have no problems with the FSLabs A320, PMDG, and RealAir stuff. I have tried DirectInput and RawInput with no effect. 

Since this appears on some aircrafts but not others, and appears across aircrafts made by different developers, I'm suspecting that the issue stems from something in P3D5.

Has anyone seen or heard of anything similar?

Edit: something new I just discovered. I have to assign the same axis to the "Throttle 1 axis" in P3D, AND assign the "Throttle1" in FSUIPC calibration to get the axis to work. Assigning either one by themselves does not work. This has now become even more confusing.

[Pete Dowson]

20 hours ago, light_blue_yonder said:

But if I assign two axis each to "Throttle 1 axis" and "Throttle 2 axis", neither of them moves the throttles in the aircraft.

Do you mean the "Axis ThrottleN Set" controls. Those are the ones used by P3D assignment. In FSUIPC there are three ways of assigning throttles, so you'd need to be much more specific.

20 hours ago, light_blue_yonder said:

I have to assign the same axis to the "Throttle 1 axis" in P3D, AND assign the "Throttle1" in FSUIPC calibration to get the axis to work.

It is not possible to assign axes in the Calibration tab. Calibration is the process of matching the hardware axis input, wherever assigned, to the full range required by the aircraft.

If you assign axes in P3D then do NOT assign them in FSUIPC or you will get conflicts. And some aircraft (PMDG ones particularly) do not like the FSUIPC calibrated axis outputs because they detect the values at a higher level.

I don't know any way where assigning and/or calibrating one axis can affect or stop an entirely different axis control behaving correctly.

Pete

 

 

[John Dowson]

20 hours ago, light_blue_yonder said:

This problem happens when assigning axes through P3D or FSUIPC.

If this happens also when assigning directly via P3D, how do the aircraft makers tell you how to configure the throttle?
Have you checked or asked about this on the Aerosoft or Milviz forums?

I see Pete has also just replied...

20 hours ago, light_blue_yonder said:

Edit: something new I just discovered. I have to assign the same axis to the "Throttle 1 axis" in P3D, AND assign the "Throttle1" in FSUIPC calibration to get the axis to work. Assigning either one by themselves does not work. This has now become even more confusing.

Sounds lie you are assigning in P3D and then calibrating (not assigning) in FSUIPC. I am surprised this works, as this can cause issues due to priority levels, as Pete has said.

I currently don't have any of those add-ons to check - but I'll see if I can get one to take a look...

John

[aua668]

Hi,

Aerosoft provides in the documntation folder a document with the title "Vol7-Thrust Lever Setup.pdf". Have you followed these instructions especially the one on page 3, where it is described, what you have to do in case you want to assign two throttle axis.

Rgds
Reinhard

 

[John Dowson]

@light_blue_yonder Are you still having issues setting up your throttle in your add-on aircraft or is this now resolved? Did you check the thrust lever set-up document mentioned by Reingard?

John

[light_blue_yonder]

5 hours ago, John Dowson said:

@light_blue_yonder Are you still having issues setting up your throttle in your add-on aircraft or is this now resolved? Did you check the thrust lever set-up document mentioned by Reingard?

John

Hello John,

I've tried the two suggestions here, to no avail.

However, I have observed a new behavior.

If I set the "Axis ThrottleN Set" in FSUIPC and nowhere else, the throttle goes to the position I had the level in when I exited FSUIPC. Like, if I put it at 50%, when I exit FSUIPC by clicking "Cancel", the throttle jumps to that position but doesn't move in any way. This is replicated in Aerosoft products and the Milviz King Air. I have reached out to both developers, and neither was able to offer a solution.

The driver's for the hardware is correct as far as I can tell.

[light_blue_yonder]

On 11/20/2021 at 7:19 AM, Pete Dowson said:

Do you mean the "Axis ThrottleN Set" controls. Those are the ones used by P3D assignment. In FSUIPC there are three ways of assigning throttles, so you'd need to be much more specific.

It is not possible to assign axes in the Calibration tab. Calibration is the process of matching the hardware axis input, wherever assigned, to the full range required by the aircraft.

If you assign axes in P3D then do NOT assign them in FSUIPC or you will get conflicts. And some aircraft (PMDG ones particularly) do not like the FSUIPC calibrated axis outputs because they detect the values at a higher level.

I don't know any way where assigning and/or calibrating one axis can affect or stop an entirely different axis control behaving correctly.

Pete

 

 

Hello Pete, 

I have NOT used the calibration page. What I meant was assigning the axis as "Send directly to FSUIPC Calibration", which has the setting for "ThrottleN". Using this method OR the "Axis ThrottleN Set" both result in the same problem.

It is only when I set the throttle axis in P3D's menu, AND assign "ThrottleN" in FSUIPC, do the throttles work. Using either one of these does NOT work. Which is why this is confusing me so much. It only works when I intentionally use a setup that may cause problems.

Also worth noting is that the propeller and mixture axes don't have this problem, and they work fine when assigned using literally any method.

[light_blue_yonder]

On 11/21/2021 at 5:04 AM, aua668 said:

Hi,

Aerosoft provides in the documntation folder a document with the title "Vol7-Thrust Lever Setup.pdf". Have you followed these instructions especially the one on page 3, where it is described, what you have to do in case you want to assign two throttle axis.

Rgds
Reinhard

 

I have read the Aerosoft documentation. It did not help. In fact, if it was limited to an Aerosoft problem, I wouldn't have the same issue between the Airbus and the CRJ, let alone the same problem with Milviz. So I'm thinking that there must be some shared factor between those three that is causing a problem.

[John Dowson]

1 minute ago, light_blue_yonder said:

I have NOT used the calibration page. What I meant was assigning the axis as "Send directly to FSUIPC Calibration",

When you assign to Send directly to FSUIPC Calibration you MUST calibrate in the FSUIPC calibration page.

2 minutes ago, light_blue_yonder said:

It is only when I set the throttle axis in P3D's menu, AND assign "ThrottleN" in FSUIPC, do the throttles work. Using either one of these does NOT work. Which is why this is confusing me so much. It only works when I intentionally use a setup that may cause problems.

That doesn't sound right at all - you must assign either in P3D or in FSUIPC, not both.

I will see if I can get hold of the CRJ to investigate.

John

 

[light_blue_yonder]

37 minutes ago, John Dowson said:

When you assign to Send directly to FSUIPC Calibration you MUST calibrate in the FSUIPC calibration page.

That doesn't sound right at all - you must assign either in P3D or in FSUIPC, not both.

I will see if I can get hold of the CRJ to investigate.

John

Hello John,

I have tried every combination. Including calibrating in the calibration page while using "Send directly to FSUIPC Calibration".

And when you say "that doesn't sound right at all", I COMPLETELY agree. That's why I was so confused. It makes no sense that it only works when I purposefully do something that I KNOW is suppose to cause problems.

[John Dowson]

9 minutes ago, light_blue_yonder said:

I have tried every combination. Including calibrating in the calibration page while using "Send directly to FSUIPC Calibration".

Ok, but you did say: "I have NOT used the calibration page."

!

[light_blue_yonder]

7 hours ago, John Dowson said:

Ok, but you did say: "I have NOT used the calibration page."

!

Yeah, my original post didn't have a good flow, but that is also a combination I've tried. I've basically tried every combination within FSUIPC, and between P3D and FSUIPC. The only way that works is the "deliberately conflicting" way.

[John Dowson]

Which CRJ are you trying to set-up - the 550, 700, 900 or 1000? Or doesn't it matter (i.e. same issue in all)?

Got hold of a copy of this aircraft now so I can take a look later and get back to you.

John

[light_blue_yonder]

3 hours ago, John Dowson said:

Which CRJ are you trying to set-up - the 550, 700, 900 or 1000? Or doesn't it matter (i.e. same issue in all)?

Got hold of a copy of this aircraft now so I can take a look later and get back to you.

John

Hey John,

I appreciate your dedication!

 

It does not matter what CRJ. Every airplane in the CRJ Professional addon has the same problem. This is the current list of products I have this problem with:

- CRJ Professional

- Airbus 318/319 Professional (I don't have the 320/321)

- Milviz King Air 350i

 

The addons that do NOT have this problem no matter how hard I try to replicate it:

- RealAir Turbine Duke v2

- PMDG 737 & 777 (only ones I own)

- FSLabs A320 (only one I own)

- A2A C172 (only one I own)

 

Again, I genuinely suspect that this is not an FSUIPC issue. If it was an FSUIPC-only issue, I shouldn't have problems by assigning the axes only through P3D's menu. I have said the same on the P3D forums.

[John Dowson]

Just now, light_blue_yonder said:

Again, I genuinely suspect that this is not an FSUIPC issue. If it was an FSUIPC-only issue, I shouldn't have problems by assigning the axes only through P3D's menu. I have said the same on the P3D forums.

Yes, I agree...

I'm currently having issues installing the CRJ pro in P3Dv5. Got an error during installation regarding P3Dv4 (!), and the add-on.xml wasn't created. I created this manually, but when I load any of the CRJs I can't get any power or access to the EFB. Awaiting a response from Aerosoft on this.

However, I did try to configure the throttle, but with little success. But, it does seem that thrust is applied, its just that the throttle in the UI isn't moving.
If I use the default throttle keys (F1, F2, F3 & F4) I can also apply thrust, but again the throttle lever doesn't move in the UI.

Does the throttle move for you if you use those keys (e.g. F4 for full power)? Is thrust applied, i.e. can you hear the throttle being applied to the engines?

It looks like the throttle may be applied, but that there is just no animation in the cockpit throttle - could that be the issue?

For the Aerosoft Airbus, maybe try what is suggested here: https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/561341-aerosoft-airbus-professional-throttle-settings-using-fsuipc/
That uses multiple throttle assignments as well, as you previously tried, but has the multiple assignments in FSUIPC and not any in P3D. However, the two engine throttles are assigned to the same axis/throttle lever, not one for each engine. 

I will update again if/when I discover anything useful....

John

[John Dowson]

Btw, if the throttle keys F1-F4 are working for you and show the throttle animation (they don't for me, but do for some according to this post: https://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/162671-throttle-issues/), you could assign your throttle to the controls they use for different ranges of your throttle axis, using the right-hand side of the axis assignment panel. This should give you Idle ->CLB->TOGA->MAX and back, but no manual range.

[light_blue_yonder]

9 minutes ago, John Dowson said:

Btw, if the throttle keys F1-F4 are working for you and show the throttle animation (they don't for me, but do for some according to this post: https://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/162671-throttle-issues/), you could assign your throttle to the controls they use for different ranges of your throttle axis, using the right-hand side of the axis assignment panel. This should give you Idle ->CLB->TOGA->MAX and back, but no manual range.

Hi John,

I have some new updates since I finally got some time to sit down in front of the sim today.

I reinstalled the Airbus and CRJ just for the sake of it. Strangely enough, the throttles on both of those worked when I assign through P3D or "Axis ThrottleN Set" in FSUIPC. This means that I can't use the Lua for the reverse toggle that a community member created, but the throttles move and the engines respond correctly.

The Milviz still has the same issue.

At this point, I am doing a full reinstall and I'll report back here when I put the addons back one by one. I'll leave everything default as much as possible and see if I can finally track down the source of the problem.

Just to reiterate: the original problem applies to both the throttle levers in the cockpit AND the engines. As in, the throttle levers in the sim do not move, the engine indications jump for a split second to wherever I move my physical lever then jump immediately back to idle. So it's definitely not just a throttle levers animation issue. Using the F1/F2/F3/F4 keys make the throttles behave as normal.

[John Dowson]

2 minutes ago, light_blue_yonder said:

I reinstalled the Airbus and CRJ just for the sake of it. Strangely enough, the throttles on both of those worked when I assign through P3D or "Axis ThrottleN Set" in FSUIPC. This means that I can't use the Lua for the reverse toggle that a community member created, but the throttles move and the engines respond correctly.

That does sound like good progress! Maybe the lua can be adapted? Could you post/attach the reverse toggle lua, or provide a link - I can take a look if/when I can get the CRJ installed and working properly...

4 minutes ago, light_blue_yonder said:

The Milviz still has the same issue.

Ok. I can't really help with this aircraft, sorry (not that I have helped much with the CRJ up till now!).

5 minutes ago, light_blue_yonder said:

At this point, I am doing a full reinstall and I'll report back here when I put the addons back one by one. I'll leave everything default as much as possible and see if I can finally track down the source of the problem.

Ok, that would be good to know if you can track this down.

6 minutes ago, light_blue_yonder said:

Just to reiterate: the original problem applies to both the throttle levers in the cockpit AND the engines. As in, the throttle levers in the sim do not move, the engine indications jump for a split second to wherever I move my physical lever then jump immediately back to idle. So it's definitely not just a throttle levers animation issue. Using the F1/F2/F3/F4 keys make the throttles behave as normal.

Ok, thanks. This is different from what I am seeing, but I don't think I have the CRJ has been installed correctly on P3Dv5...
I may try switching to the P3Dv4 version while I am waiting for Aerosoft to respond, to see if I have more luck with that - I'm guessing it should be similar to the P3Dv5 version...

John

[light_blue_yonder]

5 hours ago, John Dowson said:

That does sound like good progress! Maybe the lua can be adapted? Could you post/attach the reverse toggle lua, or provide a link - I can take a look if/when I can get the CRJ installed and working properly...

Ok, that would be good to know if you can track this down.

This is the lua toggle. 

I believe that it relies on the FSUIPC Calibration by using an offset to "reverse" the axis readings. I don't have enough expertise to confirm that, but I do remember looking in the lua file.

 

When I reinstall, I'll put in the Milviz King Air by itself and see the throttles work. If it STILL doesn't work, then I know it's a Milviz problem. If it works, I'll put in FSUIPC, but keep the P3D assignment only, and go from there.

[John Dowson]

Hi @light_blue_yonder . 

Fis you manage to resolve your issues?

I finally got the CRJ installed and working. Setting up the forward thrust seems relatively straightforward. However, for reverse thrust, it looks like you need to send Throttle Decr controls (1-4 times depending upon reverse thrust required), when at idle, to activate the reversers.

Or are you calibrating with a reverse zone on your throttle axis (via the EFB)? If so, you can calibrate so the bottom part of your throttle range automatically activates the reversers.

[light_blue_yonder]

1 hour ago, John Dowson said:

Hi @light_blue_yonder . 

Fis you manage to resolve your issues?

I finally got the CRJ installed and working. Setting up the forward thrust seems relatively straightforward. However, for reverse thrust, it looks like you need to send Throttle Decr controls (1-4 times depending upon reverse thrust required), when at idle, to activate the reversers.

Or are you calibrating with a reverse zone on your throttle axis (via the EFB)? If so, you can calibrate so the bottom part of your throttle range automatically activates the reversers.

Hello John,

It's not so much that I solved the issue, but more that the issue just went away with a full re-install. Right now, it seems like the throttles work correctly by using either the "Axis ThrottleN Set" or the "ThrottleN" in FSUIPC, as long as the calibration page leaves the axes as unprocessed. Basically, it doesn't matter if it's assigned using "Send to FS as normal axis" or "Send directly to FSUIPC calibration," as long as it's not calibrated in FSUIPC, it works.

But that still leaves the problem with not having the Throttle Manager Lua working, since FSUIPC doesn't actually process those axes, so it's not possible to have analog reversers, only a "press and hold F2" solution.

[John Dowson]

Hi @light_blue_yonder,

just checked this again and if I assign to "Axis ThrottleN Set" and 'Send to FS as normal axis' (no calibration), and you calibrate for 'hardware has reverser axis' and set the positions in the CRJ EFB (in options, second page), then the reversers activate in the lower part (that defined in the EFB) of each throttle axis. Have you tried this? Or is this not what you are trying to achieve?
If you are trying to set this up as a type of 'reverse thrust toggle', i.e. to use the full throttle range for reversers, then this isn't going to work with this aircraft.

John

[light_blue_yonder]

3 hours ago, John Dowson said:

Hi @light_blue_yonder,

just checked this again and if I assign to "Axis ThrottleN Set" and 'Send to FS as normal axis' (no calibration), and you calibrate for 'hardware has reverser axis' and set the positions in the CRJ EFB (in options, second page), then the reversers activate in the lower part (that defined in the EFB) of each throttle axis. Have you tried this? Or is this not what you are trying to achieve?
If you are trying to set this up as a type of 'reverse thrust toggle', i.e. to use the full throttle range for reversers, then this isn't going to work with this aircraft.

John

It is the latter option. I use that with the PMDG planes, but you are correct. The way Aerosoft does their calibration appears to only allow reverse thrust by holding a key down, rather than allowing a toggle to go into reverse.

Although, just as an idea, would it be possible to have a Lua script where when the button is pressed, it changes the axis assignment from a throttle axis to a reverser axis? Basically pressing a button to reassign the axis on the fly. I guess it's probably more trouble than it's worth. Plus, I have not even tested if a dedicated reverser axis even operates the reversers on Aerosoft planes.

[John Dowson]

44 minutes ago, light_blue_yonder said:

Although, just as an idea, would it be possible to have a Lua script where when the button is pressed, it changes the axis assignment from a throttle axis to a reverser axis? Basically pressing a button to reassign the axis on the fly. I guess it's probably more trouble than it's worth. Plus, I have not even tested if a dedicated reverser axis even operates the reversers on Aerosoft planes.

Yes, it should be possible with a lua script. You can send the axis value to an offset, and then process that value how you like. The script would also listen for button press event, and if the last axis value received was within a certain (Idle) range, a button press would change how the following axis values are processed. When in 'forward thrust' mode, the script would send the "Axis ThrottleN Set" controls with the appropriate axis value as a parameter. In 'reverse thrust' mode, you would send the Thrust Decrement control. As the CRJ reversers seem to have 4 fixed positions (when set-up with a reverse zone, haven't tried with no reverse zone and using a reverser axis, will also try that), and not be on a continuous axis, you would need to maintain 4 ranges and send a Throttle Decrement control when entering a range and the axis value is greater than the previous one, and send a Throttle Increment control when leaving a range and the axis value is less than the previous one.

I would need to check (again) the way the CRJ thrust works when the throttle in the EFB is configured for no reverse zone to confirm. I can take a look maybe at the weekend, and maybe provide you with a lua that you could use to customize to your needs.

[John Dowson]

Hi @light_blue_yonder. 

On 12/8/2021 at 5:39 PM, John Dowson said:

I can take a look maybe at the weekend, and maybe provide you with a lua that you could use to customize to your needs.

Could you try the attached lua. You may need to adjust/tune for your needs. Take a look at the comments in order to know how to condigure/tune, it should be straightforward but let me know if you have any difficulties. Once it is tuned and working, it should be started from your CRJ profile's Auto section.

I still don't know how to trigger the engine 1/2 shutoff guards though, and move the throttles to cut-off. I'll take another look at this when I have time.

John

crjThrottle.lua