REVERSE THROTTLES

[larglo]

I've looked in files, but could find any question or anwser to this problem. Using the Saitek Quad throttle, I would like to set reverse throttles from the detent postion, down. From detent, up will give full throttle.

I have tried before setting this up in FSUIPC, but always failed? Can anyone explain in detail, how to do this?

 

Thanks,

 

Larry

[Pete Dowson]

I've looked in files, but could find any question or anwser to this problem. Using the Saitek Quad throttle, I would like to set reverse throttles from the detent postion, down. From detent, up will give full throttle.

I have tried before setting this up in FSUIPC, but always failed? Can anyone explain in detail, how to do this?

 

 

As far as I know there's really no axis range you can use before the detente. But pulling back the throttle presses a button. You can assign that to the ThrotleN Decr (N=engine nmuber) with repeat allowed. I think that's what most do. In the 4 throttles calibration tab check the NRZ (no reverse zone) option -- do this before calibration.

 

Pete

[Andydigital]

Ironically the area below the detent isn't really a button, in reality it's a range on the pot that forces the firmware to press a virtual button. I took one apart a couple of weeks ago to clean the pots and there was no switch at the bottom of the range of movement, there was just a sprung ball and socket for the detent itself. I should have looked while it was open at how easy it would be to create some more detents say at 25%, getting two levers to match exactly would be the hardest part, I'd imagine drilling a divet for the ball would be quite simple. The range of movement below the existing detent is so small it would not be possible to use it as an axis, it's actually below what is output to Direct input, only the board itself can see this range, it's not seen externally by Windows.

[Pete Dowson]

Ironically the area below the detent isn't really a button, in reality it's a range on the pot that forces the firmware to press a virtual button. I took one apart a couple of weeks ago to clean the pots and there was no switch at the bottom of the range of movement, there was just a sprung ball and socket for the detent itself. I should have looked while it was open at how easy it would be to create some more detents say at 25%, getting two levers to match exactly would be the hardest part, I'd imagine drilling a divet for the ball would be quite simple. The range of movement below the existing detent is so small it would not be possible to use it as an axis, it's actually below what is output to Direct input, only the board itself can see this range, it's not seen externally by Windows.

 

Wow! How interesting!

 

I suppose firmware is cheaper in the long run (written once) than adding the switches (every time)! <G>

 

Pete

[Andydigital]

Very true Pete. It also explains why those buttons can sometimes flicker, because if the pot is dirty it will look to the firmware like you have pushed the lever below the detent, when in fact it's just spurious voltage changes because of dirt. The pots once cleaned out with contact cleaner looked like new and work like new, I'm sure I could get at least another 3 years use out of them before they need cleaning again.

[larglo]

This is very interesting indeed. I have an extra throttle that came with the yoke, so may try to take it apart to see what's up?

 

But then, how do people get reverse throttles? I'm setting up a sim, loosley based on the Airbus 321, which has a very simple throttle, trim wheel and two throttle levers. I would like to have reverse throttles, if I can get them.

Is there a way to do it?

 

Thanks,

 

Larry

[Pete Dowson]

But then, how do people get reverse throttles? I'm setting up a sim, loosley based on the Airbus 321, which has a very simple throttle, trim wheel and two throttle levers. I would like to have reverse throttles, if I can get them.

Is there a way to do it?

 

See my first answer. The only other ways, if the A321 will obey the older Throttle commands, are either:

 

1. Give up part of the main lever movement for reverse, calibrating idle some way forward of the detente, or

2. Assign one or more separate reverser axes.

 

You'd probably be best off using the button type assignment I mentioned.

 

Pete

[larglo]

I got it working, as I think you were talking about, I'm still very new to all this, but this is what I did. First, in FSX, I made the first lever as the throttle, on the second lever (middle) starting at the detent and moving it down from there, in buttons, was able to set the reverse throttle, (decrease quickly). The third I used as the spoilers. Now, the reverse works great, and as soon as I gave it a little gas, the reverse went back to normal, and I went back to idle.

 

I would like later to put the spoilers, using a slide pot from DTA, on the pedistal. Just not sure what I'd do with that third arm I won't need. I also plan to make my own custom throttle levers soo,

 

Thanks so much for all your help from each of you,

 

Larry

[Andydigital]

Larry you can send different commands on both press and release of a button, so the best thing to do is add throttle_Cut on release that way you won't have to give a little nudge of power to get out of reverse then.

[stretch1365]

Hi all,

 

Interesting thread about reverse thrust settings.

 

I had my Saitek throttle quadrant set up with thrust levers for each engine and the lower "Button" part of the quadrant set for reverse thrust as you all suggested in the thread, however this method only gives you full reverse thrust doesn't it?

 

In a real jet surely the reverser's are like the throttle, and increase with the amount of movement of the reverse lever. I tried to replicate this and set up two axis on the same lever. So throttle lever 1 was assigned Axis Throttle1 and Reverser 1 together. Then in the calibration page of FSUIPC I set the figures such that the two didn't overlap ie 100% throttle was +16300'ish to 0% throttle -8000 then null zone from -8000 to -11000 and then Reverse thrust -11000 to -16300. This seems to give me more control over the reverse thrust but the two thrust levers don't always go into reverse at the same moment which is interesting sometimes. Ok so I lose the button function and the thrust quadrant is a little bit shorter the 0% thrust position has the levers at the 20% movement position on the quadrant. I do however get wonderful control of the reverser's when landing which makes me think it might be worth it. I altered the profiles for all my Jets and they all work fine using this method, Quality Wings, PMDG except the new 777, Captain Sim's 707 and Just flight.

 

Interested in anyone's opinion of this method of achieving reverse thrust using FSUIPC and Saitek throttle quadrants.

 

Regards,

 

David Phillips.

[jordanal]

I had been using the Lua 'ThrottleManager' object with all my aircraft, including the NGX, to reverse my throttle levers after pulling them down to the switch at the bottom of the axis travel.  Once the lever-switch activated the Lua module, these same physical throttle levers become thrust reverser levers.  As I pushed them up (away from me), they proportionately increased the amount of reverse thrust until I pull the physical levers back down to the idle-detent, which then deactivates the Lua Throttle Manger object, and returns the lever logic to forward (normal) thrust.  It was a really neat module and it felt much more like activating and controlling reverse thrust.

 

Unfortunately I discovered yesterday, this exact same Lua ThrottleManager object, when declared ANYWHERE in my fsuipc.ini file, was causing a major conflict with the new PMDG 777 throttles (always snapping-back to idle).  You can see my research I posted over the PMDG 777 forum where I discuss this further.

 

So for now, I'm back to the older button-method of repeating "Throttle_DECR" commands as long as the button at the bottom of the levers is activated.  Here is an example from one of my 'Buttons' sections.

20=;  ********   THRTL LEVERS  **********
21=RY,20,C65966,0 ;	THROTTLE1_DECR
22=UY,20,C65967,0 ;	THROTTLE1_CUT
23=RY,21,C65971,0 ;	THROTTLE2_DECR
24=UY,21,C65972,0 ;	THROTTLE2_CUT

I will surely miss my Lua ThrottleManager functionality.  :(

[Pete Dowson]

Unfortunately I discovered yesterday, this exact same Lua ThrottleManager object, when declared ANYWHERE in my fsuipc.ini file, was causing a major conflict with the new PMDG 777 throttles

 

I think you must mean "anywhere in an [Auto] section which gets the Lua plug-in still operating when you load the 777". When the Lua file is merely listed in the LuaFiles list, or referred to in an assignment, it will not run unless the assigned action is used.

 

Your best best is to simply kill the plug-in when the 777 is loaded. You could do that with a LuaKill call in a profile-specific [Auto] section for the 777.

 

Pete

[jordanal]

I think you must mean "anywhere in an [Auto] section which gets the Lua plug-in still operating when you load the 777". When the Lua file is merely listed in the LuaFiles list, or referred to in an assignment, it will not run unless the assigned action is used.

...

 

Pete

 

Nope - that's what I thought too after re-reading the advanced user guide.  I tried to associate the LUA plugin with only other specific profiles, including the NGX.  But it was still causing problems with my 777 throttles, even though it wasn't in my 777 profile.  It wasn't until I removed ALL references to the LAU file in my ini, then I had no further problems with my T7 throttles.  It was as if the LUA file was still being referenced at FS session startup, even though it was not used in the active (T7) profile.

[Pete Dowson]

Nope - that's what I thought too after re-reading the advanced user guide.  I tried to associate the LUA plugin with only other specific profiles, including the NGX.  But it was still causing problems with my 777 throttles, even though it wasn't in my 777 profile.  It wasn't until I removed ALL references to the LAU file in my ini, then I had no further problems with my T7 throttles.  It was as if the LUA file was still being referenced at FS session startup, even though it was not used in the active (T7) profile.

 

If the plug-in isn't running it cannot do anything! There's really no such magic in the computer world. You show me the INI file before you removed everything and I'll check it, but without information what you say simply does not make sense.

 

Pete

[CaptainPat]

Hi All,

 

Please may I take this discussion in a slightly different direction?

I have just bought Level D 767 and would like to achieve a more realistic operation of the thrust reversers (FSX). I have a Saitek yoke and throttle quadrant and a separate throttle quadrant. Would it be possible to programme four levers so that two are thrust levers and two are reverse levers?  The reversers would be kept at 'max forward' for no reverse and the thrust levers used in the normal way. On landing, once the thrust levers were at idle, the hand could be transferred to the two reversers to progressively select reverse thrust. This would feel very similar to using the thrust/reverse levers in real life. Or am I being over enthusiastic?

 

Thanks,

 

Pat Manley

Edited December 16, 2013 by CaptainPat

[Pete Dowson]

Would it be possible to programme four levers so that two are thrust levers and two are reverse levers?  The reversers would be kept at 'max forward' for no reverse and the thrust levers used in the normal way. On landing, once the thrust levers were at idle, the hand could be transferred to the two reversers to progressively select reverse thrust. This would feel very similar to using the thrust/reverse levers in real life.

 

This is exactly what I have been doing for years. This is why FSUIPC offers up to 4 separate assignable reverser axes. (as well as a generic all-engine reversers for those less provided with levers).

 

Regards

Pete

[CaptainPat]

Pete,

 

Thanks a lot for this. 'Send Direct to FSUIPC Calibration' was the clue! The reverse does just what I hoped to achieve.

 

Best wishes for Christmas,

Pat

Edited December 17, 2013 by CaptainPat