PMDG 777 , A2A's C172 and FSUIPC 4.92...

[jcomm]

Just a small note regarding the use of FSUIPC 4.92 and PMDG's 777.

 

I was mainly using P3D, until I decided to get FSX back on my system and be able to profit from some of the greatest add-ons that have recently been released.

 

It was a long time since I last used it ( by version 3, I believe) to the point of programming and calibarting the joystick  axis through it. These days I use a combination of three controllers:

 

- Saitek X52 Pro

- Saitek Cyborg X

- Saitek Rudder Pedals

 

Well, I defined and calibrates elevator, aileron, rudder, toe-brakes, spoilers, steering tiller, throttle, prop and mixture through FSUIPC.

 

For the C172, using FSUIPC at least to define and calibrate the flight controls is almost mandatory. A2A's C172 was released and soon after many users started complaining about it's very sensitive, and somehow irrealistic, pitch and also bank behaviour, but using FSUIPC turns this model into a delightful one to fly. I really can't figure why it makes such a BIG difference, but it really does!

 

Regarding the PMDG 777, I had to revert to FSX definition mode for the throttle. I even left it's calibration through FSX ( poor but it works ). The fact is that when I used FSUIPC do define and calibrate the throttle axis, I started losing sync with the throttles, havinf abrupt changes, etc...

 

So, now, the only axis I have defined and calibrated in FSX is throttle ( single ), the rest is up to FSUIPC 4.92, which, as usual, does a great job!

 

A big thumbs up to the DynamicFriction lua script too, as well as to the chance of running a batch file when FSX starts :-)

 

[Pete Dowson]

I was mainly using P3D, until I decided to get FSX back on my system and be able to profit from some of the greatest add-ons that have recently been released.

It was a long time since I last used it ( by version 3, I believe) to the point of programming and calibarting the joystick  axis through it. These days I use a combination of three controllers:

 

- Saitek X52 Pro

- Saitek Cyborg X

- Saitek Rudder Pedals

 

Well, I defined and calibrates elevator, aileron, rudder, toe-brakes, spoilers, steering tiller, throttle, prop and mixture through FSUIPC.

 

You could have used your P3D FSUIPC4.INI on FSX to save redoing everything.

 

Regarding the PMDG 777, I had to revert to FSX definition mode for the throttle. I even left it's calibration through FSX ( poor but it works ). The fact is that when I used FSUIPC do define and calibrate the throttle axis, I started losing sync with the throttles, havinf abrupt changes, etc.

 

I think that's how it is on the 737NGX too. It's only the calibration (not assignment) in FSUIPC which messes it up, because they are doing the same as FSUIPC's calibration, they intercept the control at a high level. FSUIPC does this also, then passes it through the calibration computations and sends it on to FS at a lower level. The two values will rarely if ever be the same!

 

However, this doesn't stop you assigning in FSUIPC, but you need to assign to the FS Axis throttle controls. At least then all your assignments will be in one place and you can disable FSX controllers. (Don't forget FSX doesn't actually calibrate anything -- it leves it to Windows Game Controllers, which affects the inputs to FSUIPC in any case).

 

Regards

Pete

[bagarie]

HI Pete,

 

I want to say you my experience with the PMDG 777 throttle.

I am able to assign and calibrate that on FSUIPC and it work. The problem start when I close FSX and start it again: It's like I loose the calibration: The Lever moves but flip back.

 

I hope you can find a solution, because I can't use FSX assignement on my throttle: I have a 737 Throttle Replica with one axis reversed to the other so I must use FSUIPC assignement and specially calibration.

 

Regards

Arnaldo

[Pete Dowson]

I am able to assign and calibrate that on FSUIPC and it work. The problem start when I close FSX and start it again: It's like I loose the calibration: The Lever moves but flip back.

 

That sounds like the controllers in FSX have not been disabled, and so when you reload FSX it automatically re-assigns some axes.

 

That really is the only explanation I can think of. FSUIPC doesn't "lose calibration", it is stored in the FSUIPC4.INI file and retrieved each time. And "the lever moves but flips back" sounds like conflicting assignments. Lost calibrations wouldn't do that, it would just act as an uncalibrated axis, not moving things to places they don't belong!

 

Pete

[bagarie]

HI Pete,

 

I have disabled ALL controllers on FSX I always use FSUIPC for all my Controls. But now, as like others 777PMDG users, I have problem with Throttle use. I know also ALL things are stored on Fsuipc.ini file, but as I wrote above, that's what happens to me. 

I can't use my Throttle without Fsuipc, I need it for fine calibrate, assignements ecc. ecc. 

Before 777, I was very happy with all aircraft configurations, I hav only this problem with 777PMDG.

 

Regards

Arnaldo

[Pete Dowson]

I have disabled ALL controllers on FSX I always use FSUIPC for all my Controls. But now, as like others 777PMDG users, I have problem with Throttle use. I know also ALL things are stored on Fsuipc.ini file, but as I wrote above, that's what happens to me.

 

Well there must be some conflict going on, because "losing calibration" is not the same as "lever moves but flip back". That's a sure sign of a conflict. And seeing as you say it happens on reloading FS, that's also the time when FS would auto-reassign axes.

 

You say you "disabled ALL controllers on FSX", which worries me because unlike FS9 and earlier, FSX has only one place to disable controllers. If you are simply unassigning axes in FSX, that is not the same at all.

 

Use FSUIPC's axis logging to see what is happening.

 

Pete

[bagarie]

THanks Pete,

 

I'll check the FSUIPC axis logging and I'll back to you with results.

 

Arnaldo

[Andydigital]

The snapping back that Arnaldo speaks of probably isn't what it normally looks like i.e. dual assignment, in the case of the 777 its the calibration data in FSUIPC which is causing PMDG's throttle control to not function correctly. This is how it looks, the throttles will start to move forward as you push your hardware throttles then suddenly the throttles in the VC snap back to idle. It will only do this when the engines are running and both AT switches are armed, if either of those conditions is not true then the levers will appear to work perfectly.

 

This is how I fixed it. Delete the lines mentioned below from the [JoystickCalibration.777] section of your 777 profile (my profile is called "777") and it will work perfectly as long as you have followed Pete's recommendations above and you choose send to FS as normal and choose Axisthrottleset or whatever the correct name is.

 

Delete any lines like this;

Throttle1=-16253,-512,512,16128/32
Throttle2=-16253,-512,512,16128/32

 

If you only have one throttle assigned it will be similar to this below, simply delete it;

Throttle=-16253,-512,512,16128/32

 

And you must remove the slope entries too if you have set any, which will be something like;

SlopeThrottle1=12

SlopeThrottle2=12

 

or this if you just have the one throttle;

SlopeThrottle=12

 

Since doing this and setting the PMDG FMC menu option for the AT override to "NEVER" it has worked perfectly for me. PMDG must not like the calibration data or the slope data.

[bagarie]

Dear Andy,

 

thanks for you reply. But as I wrote above I need to use FSUIPC calibrations because I have a Throttle quadrant replica of a B737. THe Pot of Lever 1 is different from the Lever2: 1 has Values from negative to positive from IDLE to FULL thrust, but the lever 2 has positive to negative values from IDLE to FULL. In addictions the values read from one pot are differents each other. That's why I MUST use FSUIPC to calibrate these different axis. I cannot use only the FSX....

 

Regards

Arnaldo

[Andydigital]

If you want the 777 throttles to function properly you have no choice I am afraid , can't you just flip the wires for one of the pots and the problem should be solved, or are the pots different values too, if so you are stuck.

[Pete Dowson]

thanks for you reply. But as I wrote above I need to use FSUIPC calibrations because I have a Throttle quadrant replica of a B737. THe Pot of Lever 1 is different from the Lever2: 1 has Values from negative to positive from IDLE to FULL thrust, but the lever 2 has positive to negative values from IDLE to FULL.

 

Well, it seems the T7 is like the NGX in that it traps the throttle controls at a high priority, just like FSUIPC does for calibration, then passes them on to FS at a lower proiority, just like FSUIPC does after it performs the calibration changes. That means there are two different values being sent to FS. So, a conflict, but in this case due to two separate routes.

 

As Andy says, there is no way you can use FSUIPC's calibration.

 

But you can still assign in FSUIPC, just assign to the Axis Throttle controls. As for the axis reversal you can deal with that by the scaling additions to the axis assignments in the INI file. To reverse it you just add  ,*-1 to the end, meaning multiply the value by -1.

 

In addictions the values read from one pot are differents each other.

 

Well, you might be able to get it closer by using the scaling. You only have a multiplier and an adder to play with, though. Please see the details in the Advanced User's guide, around page 43 I think..

 

The only other possible solution would be to use Lua plug-ins to receive the axis value (via LuaValue assignments), manipulate the axis values in whatever way you like, (even including using the calibration values you've already determined), then sending them on as Axis throttle parameters.

 

Regards

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

Well, it seems the T7 is like the NGX in that it traps the throttle controls at a high priority, just like FSUIPC does for calibration, then passes them on to FS at a lower proiority, just like FSUIPC does after it performs the calibration changes. That means there are two different values being sent to FS. So, a conflict, but in this case due to two separate routes.

 

As Andy says, there is no way you can use FSUIPC's calibration.

 

I've been thinking about this. There might be a better, easier way, but I don't have any PMDG aircraft to check it on. This depends on how the NGX and T7 read the thottle settings

 

Ths is a possible solution for throttles without a reverse zone on the same axis. In the relevant JoystickCalibration section of the INI file you need "UseAxisControlsForNRZ=Yes".  Then load FSX. Assign the throttle levers Direct to FSUIPC Calibration using the Throttle 1 and Throttle 2 entries. Then go to the Joystick calibration section, enable calibration on both throttles and, before actual calibration, check the No Reverse Zone option, top left. Then calibrate.

 

As far as I can see from the FSUIPC code, if you do this then FSUIPC does not intercept throttle controls, it just sends the calibrated values as normal FS commands, not via SimConnect. The PMDG code should pick up the calibrated values correctly.

 

The only chance I see of this not working is if the PMDG code actually reads the joystick values directly, like FSUIPC, and I can't see how it can do that as it doesn't know how you've assigned them if outside of FS.

 

Let me know how this goes, please.

 

Regards

Pete

[jordanal]

Hi Pete,

I'm having much trouble with my FSUIPC axis and calibrations along with the PMDG T7 and my Saitek Cessna yoke/throttle setup as well.  I have many advanced planes and profiles in my FSUIPC.ini files over the years, including the PMDG NGX.  All these have axis, buttons, and calibrations assigned in FSUIPC and the 'enable controllers' box unchecked in the FSX controller menu.  I am very comfortable manually editing the fsuipc.ini file over the years but I've never had more difficulty with an axis in FSUIPC, as I have with the PMDG T7 and throttles.  I firmly believe the high-level calibration conflicts between PMDG and FSUIPC are occurring as you surmise, and 'sending direct to fsx' with no fsuipc calibration should be an easy solution.

 

[update a bit later] - I have discovered the 'Lua AutoThrottle Manager' module used to reverse the throttle axis travel with a reversers button, which activated at the bottom of the physical throttle axis lever travel, is causing the conflict with PMDG T7 throttles (snapping back to idle).  When I disabled this Lua module (my only Lua module) in the 'LuaFiles' and 'Auto' sections of the ini file, all Saitek Cessna Yoke/TX axis work with the T7 when setup as 'Send to FS as Normal Axis' and no calibration section in my T7 ini profile.

 

Oh, and thanks for the 'reversing an axis without calibration' ( ,*-1) - I never knew that one.  :)

[CentenaryMan]

I thought I had similar throttle problems but in my case I didn't realise the auto throttle on the 777 was on,,,,after loading the plane.

 

I knock them off and on the ground taxiing and the throttle are great.

 

Andy

[Andydigital]

The two AT switches are not normally ever switched off, unless there is a problem, if you cannot control the throttles without them snapping back when these AT switches are switched on (UP) then you do have a problem in your FSUIPC4.ini file. Read through the thread again for details of the fix.

[airforce2]

Pete--I just tested your suggested fix from post #12 above with UseAxisControlsForNRZ=Yes in the 777's joystick calibrations section. 

 

Worked as advertised--now the throttle axes do not interfere with the PMDG autothrottles.

 

Thanks for that!

 

Cheers

 

Bob

[soundrats]

Hm I have assigned the axises via FSUIPC and calibrated throttle and steering tiller via FSUIPC to. I do not see any problem... The only problem for now is that I have to tell FSUIPC with every new start of FSX that it should use the B777 configuration.

"You want to assign to an Aircraft"

Cheers Tom

[stretch1365]

Hi all,

 

Yep I too had been having trouble with the 777 throttles snapping back to idle. Been searching the forums for a while with no luck until I read about the fix above in post 12. I tried it today and did three flights all without any problems, everything worked just as it's supposed too.

 

Problem fixed, downloaded new liveries and installed in FSX added new livery to the 777 profile in the FSUIPC ini file and all still working perfectly.

 

Thanks Peter for a great but simple fix.

[JEMorris]

I did find the problem. In the section JoystickCalibration

 

These are the what I changed it to:

 

Throttle1=-16384,-13263,512,16383/32
Reverser1=-16384,16128
Throttle2=-16384,-512,512,16383/32
Reverser2=-16384,16128  this was missing