Plane jumping and aggressive pitch on takeoff

[etopsbr]

It's just me or anyone else are seeing the plane jumping on takeoff and landing runs? Looks like that above some speeds the plane starts do jump. Also I'm thinking that the pitch is kind aggressive on takeoff, the nose of the plane pitch up lighting fast.

[Matty260191]

Nope

[Biggles2010]

57 minutes ago, etopsbr said:

Also I'm thinking that the pitch is kind aggressive on takeoff, the nose of the plane pitch up lighting fast.

What aircraft model,  what takeoff weight,  what flap setting,  what trim setting?  They all have an effect.

Jumping on take off and landing can be caused by the pc, and particularly the graphics card maxing out. That is, struggling to cope with the high graphics processing requirements from some airfield sceneries at those particular phases of flight.

[etopsbr]

36 minutes ago, Biggles2010 said:

What aircraft model,  what takeoff weight,  what flap setting,  what trim setting?  They all have an effect.

Jumping on take off and landing can be caused by the pc, and particularly the graphics card maxing out. That is, struggling to cope with the high graphics processing requirements from some airfield sceneries at those particular phases of flight.

Well, notice on 190 and 195, in various TOWs and LDWs. My tow today was 43489kg. Looks like something to do with the nosegear. Like some problem on contact points or semthing. I will try to make a video.

[Biggles2010]

1 hour ago, etopsbr said:

It's just me or anyone else are seeing the plane jumping on takeoff and landing runs? Looks like that above some speeds the plane starts do jump. Also I'm thinking that the pitch is kind aggressive on takeoff, the nose of the plane pitch up lighting fast.

10 minutes ago, etopsbr said:

Well, notice on 190 and 195, in various TOWs and LDWs. My tow today was 43489kg. Looks like something to do with the nosegear. Like some problem on contact points or semthing. I will try to make a video.

I should say, I have no connection with FeelThere, but I've been using modified FeelThere Ejets software for some years in a fully working E195 cockpit which showed up most of the possible problems.  They usually come from P3D's improved graphics putting big demands on processing power. The result can show up in many different ways, like strange control problems, or other unusual behaviour.  This new v3 Ejet uses more of the latest graphics features, so it may be more demanding. Have you compared it with other add ons?

I don't know what processor and graphics card you are using, or what graphics settings you use. but most systems struggle with P3D if the settings are turned up.   So do these problems happen at default airfields?       Do they happen when all graphics are turned down to minimum?       Do you have shadows enabled?     What weather settings do you use?   What AI traffic do you have set?

What looks like jumping on takeoff and landing can be reproduced with many detailed add on aircraft, by turning up the graphics settings and going to an airport like Heathrow with cloudy weather.  It causes short or missing frames, so you get jumps, especially if the scenery has not been well optimised. This can include highly detailed runway and ground textures.  There are many possibilities to investigate.

[BoeingG]

11 hours ago, Biggles2010 said:

I should say, I have no connection with FeelThere, but I've been using modified FeelThere Ejets software for some years in a fully working E195 cockpit which showed up most of the possible problems.  They usually come from P3D's improved graphics putting big demands on processing power. The result can show up in many different ways, like strange control problems, or other unusual behaviour.  This new v3 Ejet uses more of the latest graphics features, so it may be more demanding. Have you compared it with other add ons?

I don't know what processor and graphics card you are using, or what graphics settings you use. but most systems struggle with P3D if the settings are turned up.   So do these problems happen at default airfields?       Do they happen when all graphics are turned down to minimum?       Do you have shadows enabled?     What weather settings do you use?   What AI traffic do you have set?

What looks like jumping on takeoff and landing can be reproduced with many detailed add on aircraft, by turning up the graphics settings and going to an airport like Heathrow with cloudy weather.  It causes short or missing frames, so you get jumps, especially if the scenery has not been well optimised. This can include highly detailed runway and ground textures.  There are many possibilities to investigate.

That's not the case at all. No issues with FSL, PMDG and the like; the feelThere ERJ V3 is erratic during rotation.

[Biggles2010]

9 hours ago, BoeingG said:

That's not the case at all. No issues with FSL, PMDG and the like; the feelThere ERJ V3 is erratic during rotation.

Understood.  But it doesn't seem to be a widely reported problem. Do you think this has occurred since SP1?

My interest is because I would like to update my own setup, but it's a major undertaking to do that, so I need to collect as much information as I can.

[mr_ramiro]

Hi, 

I'm having the same problem, too! No matter how smooth you pull the joystick, the aircraft's nose seems to jump. I guess that the jump @etopsbr mentioned isn't related to graphics issues, but aircraft handling. I've been using 3,5 to 5,5 of trim up for takeoff with Flaps 1, 2, 3 and 4, and we must care when rotating the aircraft, specially the streched 195. I couldn't find in the manual the recommended flight controls sensibility and null zone. 

Also during landing, when the aircraft touches the ground, the nose "falls" out like a heavy stone. I've also noticed that the acft needs full range of pitch trim during landing, from 9 to 13 up. Seems that the center of gravity was displaced to it's fwd limit, even with the acft being loaded via load manager and checking the CG position on "fuel and payload" P3D menu. 

I've been doing these test flights with the E195. 

[Matty260191]

I have to add to this I do find that even being gentle its quite hard to get a smooth rotation the nose seems to jump off the runway like it was glued down and all of a sudden came unstuck. 

[sags]

This is a problem and there is a sort-of solution. The flight dynamics programmer has for some reason omitted parameter 1101 from the air file which adjusts primary flight dynamics. This is where the problem can be quite easily solved. Since it is not there - we use plan B!!!

In the aircraft .cfg file, go to the section on flight tuning.  Change the pitch stability parameter from 1.0 to 1.3 and use a pitch trim of about +4.0 with flaps 1 for takeoff. Works well for me - this is with the E175 model.  I haven't tried the other models.

I must also compliment the FD programmer for getting the climb and cruise profiles for the E175 spot-on (according to FCOM numbers) 🙂

 

Trevor

[Delta558]

10 minutes ago, sags said:

 The flight dynamics programmer has for some reason omitted parameter 1101 from the air file which adjusts primary flight dynamics.

Obsolete in P3Dv4 - check towards the end of the airfile, tables 1539 to 1544.

12 minutes ago, sags said:

Change the pitch stability parameter from 1.0 to 1.3 and use a pitch trim of about +4.0 with flaps 1 for takeoff. Works well for me - this is with the E175 model.  I haven't tried the other models.

If that works for you, great. For general info, I developed using max sensitivity / min null zones on all controller axes and realistic coefficients. I don't see the sudden pitching, but also I use a Thrustmaster Warthog with extension tube on the stick.

 

15 minutes ago, sags said:

I must also compliment the FD programmer for getting the climb and cruise profiles for the E175 spot-on (according to FCOM numbers) 🙂

 

Thank you.

[Shom]

How does one know what trim setting to set for takeoff?

There are many variables...

[Matty260191]

In this model the load does not effect the CoG so I tend to just use UP 2-4 depending on wight.

[Shom]

2 hours ago, Matty260191 said:

In this model the load does not effect the CoG so I tend to just use UP 2-4 depending on wight.

So it's not simulated you mean 🙂

[Matty260191]

Yer the CoG doesn't move at all regardless if what you put in the payload. So in reality the trim only varies depending on Vspeed and Flaps

[Matty260191]

To be honest I'm not sure why they didn't simulate it in an aircraft that cost more than other study level aircraft. Just like they think they can get away with using the same load planner as V2 Ejets. Oh well its good enough I guess.

[sags]

On 4/5/2020 at 1:11 PM, Delta558 said:

Obsolete in P3Dv4 - check towards the end of the airfile, tables 1539 to 1544.

All other developers are still using 1101 and not tables 1539-1544

[Delta558]

That's quite a sweeping statement (and incorrect), but where 1101 is used it is likely for the aircraft to be backwards-compatible with earlier versions of P3D and even FSX. That is not the case with this aircraft, it is P3Dv4 ONLY, so there was no need to use that table as per the SDK.