Improving realism at CYVR

[corrigancr]

I really like the CYVR airport model, but there's one thing that always bugs me and takes away considerably from the realism: US-bound departures are not confined to the US-preclearance terminal at YVR. Many of you will  know that the 8 biggest Canadian airports have US customs pre-clearance facilities with their own dedicated terminal area. In the game this is terminal E. Assigning American carriers to this terminal is easy enough, but the problem is that a number of Air Canada, Air Canada Jazz and Westjet flights should also be using this terminal for their US departures. 

I understand this is a bit of a nitpick, but I believe I have a solution that doesn't require any changes to the existing airport files, but would require some minimal effort on the part of the Devs. All they need to do is create three new airlines with the same livery and callsigns as Air Canada, Air Canada Jazz and Westjet, but with different ICAO and IATA codes. 

So for example, they could do something like this:

AC,ACA= A#,A#A = same livery, callsign for both

JZ,JZA = J#,J#A = same livery, callsign for both

WS,WJA = W$,W$A = same livery, callsign for both

Or something like that. So now we would have two sets of codes for each of the three Canadian airlines, so when we make custom schedules, we can use the secondary code for US departures, and assign those US-bound flights with the corresponding code pairs to the US preclearance terminal. I would really like to hear from one of the Devs to see if this is possible. I think you could just include it in the YVR real traffic as an update. 

Unfortunately there's no way to do this manually as it involves editing the aircraft texture files which are not accessible. But if one of the Devs could take pity on me, I don't think it would be too much work. Just three new airlines, all with existing livery and callsigns. From what I understand it should only be about 10 minutes of work, and it would increase the realism of the one Canadian airport significantly! 

 

[corrigancr]

Just to clarify, this is basically identical to the strategy that the Devs came up with to deal with cargo airlines, just create a new airline with a new code and the cargo livery and make it assign-able to the cargo terminals, so that the Korean Air cargo 747s go to the cargo terminal, and the Korean Air passenger 747s go to the passenger terminal. But in this case you don't even have to create any new liveries... 

[crbascott]

I don't like the use of dummy IATA/ICAO codes but since the game engine has been locked down for over 2 years there's not much else that can be done.

This problem is not unique to CYVR - it's an issue at any hub airport with an international terminal and has been discussed before. I believe @707FAN has brought it up in a thread or two. Instead of hoping for developer involvement, he has settled for white planes.

Thinking of the bigger picture, how would you handle this as a "global" solution? Right off the bat, I see an issue with AAL/DFW/Terminal D using your current proposal.

PS - No matter what, for this to happen Nyerges Design will have to make many changes. I personally don't see it happening, but don't let me stop you from dreaming.

  

[corrigancr]

5 hours ago, crbascott said:

I don't like the use of dummy IATA/ICAO codes but since the game engine has been locked down for over 2 years there's not much else that can be done.

This problem is not unique to CYVR - it's an issue at any hub airport with an international terminal and has been discussed before. I believe @707FAN has brought it up in a thread or two. Instead of hoping for developer involvement, he has settled for white planes.

Thinking of the bigger picture, how would you handle this as a "global" solution? Right off the bat, I see an issue with AAL/DFW/Terminal D using your current proposal.

PS - No matter what, for this to happen Nyerges Design will have to make many changes. I personally don't see it happening, but don't let me stop you from dreaming.

  

I hope it's something they will consider for the next version of Tower!3d. It could be as simple as a value in the custom schedule- when you create a flight, you designate it either D for domestic or I for International, and have the ability to do terminal assignments in the same way. A 3rd option, T for transborder would work for Canadian airports and also as maybe a special category for European airports that have terminals assigned based on EU status. Sorry if this has been discussed already, I'm not on this forum very often.

[MJKERR]

I heavily modified Tower 2011 EGLL (Heathrow) last year
Sadly due to a Windows 10 update a few months later it stopped working, but earlier this week I fixed that issue

Earlier this year I started on Tower 3D OMDB (Dubai)
I was hoping I could modify that in the same way
The only issue I have remaining is there is no method to edit the stands, there are only specific terminals and groups of stands 
However, you can duplicate aircraft and callsigns, this is similar to the same process I used for Tower 2011 EGLL

It does mean some of the ICAO / IATA codes are not in the standard format
However, so long as you are organised and avoid duplicates there are no issues
You can then send specific fleets from one airline to specific terminals

[crbascott]

@MJKERR But you still ended up with white planes. Correct?

In T!2011 you could copy/create liveries.This is not an option in T!3DP. 

[MJKERR]

1 hour ago, crbascott said:

@MJKERR But you still ended up with white planes. Correct?

No, not in Tower 3D, that was what I was working on
All the aircraft are in correct liveries
However it did mean purchasing three real colour packs

Tower 2011 I knew I would end up with white planes as a few years had passed
I could correct this more, but without a master list of aircaft and liveries it is a gamble to work out the correct ones to purchase

[crbascott]

2 hours ago, MJKERR said:

No, not in Tower 3D, that was what I was working on
All the aircraft are in correct liveries
However it did mean purchasing three real colour packs

Tower 2011 I knew I would end up with white planes as a few years had passed
I could correct this more, but without a master list of aircaft and liveries it is a gamble to work out the correct ones to purchase

Ok, either I’m confused or vice versa. Are you saying that you were able to get liveries to show up for planes with dummy or made up IATA/ICAO codes? To my knowledge, this is not possible. If so, please enlighten us. 

[MJKERR]

The OP is referring to Tower 3D
Separating aircraft out so that specific liveries are allocated to specific terminals
This is only possible where the liveries are specified in the airport files
Using the Aircraft Master File is required for this, and then purchasing all the liveries in which those airports are applied
The codes are then transferred to the terminal file, which the OP does not want to amend, but it is the only way to complete this

I do not have CYVR, yet
I assume the following : 
Air Canada
Air Canada Jazz
Westjet
are all available within both CYVR and the Aircraft Master File

In Tower 2011 it is a lot easier, but time consuming

[EliGrim]

On 9/14/2020 at 4:41 AM, MJKERR said:

The codes are then transferred to the terminal file, which the OP does not want to amend, but it is the only way to complete this

This is not possible. Both @corrigancr and @crbascott are right here.

I suppose you have overlooked that the TO would like to distribute the planes of certain airlines to different terminals depending on their destination and at the same time keep the liveries displayed.
As already mentioned this is only possible if there are copies of the airlines in the Real Color AddOns with their own IATA code. Furthermore you would have to use a fake ICAO code to assign the duplicate of the airline to the correct terminal. The phonetic callsign could remain the same.

The assignment of aircraft to individual gates will probably not be possible in this version of Tower!3D (Pro). However, a change in the source code could be made, so that IATA codes could be used instead of ICAO codes in the terminal file. So it would be possible to assign the duplicate with the made up IATA code to the correct terminal without having to change the ICAO code.

I doubt very much that both of the developers will make the necessary changes but I would be happy to be proven wrong.

[corrigancr]

On 9/14/2020 at 12:15 AM, EliGrim said:

However, a change in the source code could be made, so that IATA codes could be used instead of ICAO codes in the terminal file. So it would be possible to assign the duplicate with the made up IATA code to the correct terminal without having to change the ICAO code.

Would this still keep the correct livery though? If you use a made-up IATA code, how would the game know which livery to use? Wouldn't the texture files also have to be changed?

[EliGrim]

2 hours ago, corrigancr said:

Wouldn't the texture files also have to be changed?

Yes...

On 9/14/2020 at 6:15 AM, EliGrim said:

this is only possible if there are copies of the airlines [..] with their own IATA code

By this I meant that Nyergesdesign would have to create duplicates of the corresponding airlines with new IATA codes in all RC Packs.

If additionally the program code would be changed, so that instead of the ICAO code the IATA code could be used in the terminal file, this would be the cleanest solution, apart from the possibility to assign planes to individual gates. Thus no fake ICAO code would be in the identifier / callsign.
But for this to happen, both developers, Nyergesdesign and FeelThere, would have to make the necessary changes and I don't think that will happen.

[crbascott]

3 hours ago, EliGrim said:

Yes...

By this I meant that Nyergesdesign would have to create duplicates of the corresponding airlines with new IATA codes in all RC Packs.

If additionally the program code would be changed, so that instead of the ICAO code the IATA code could be used in the terminal file, this would be the cleanest solution, apart from the possibility to assign planes to individual gates. Thus no fake ICAO code would be in the identifier / callsign.
But for this to happen, both developers, Nyergesdesign and FeelThere, would have to make the necessary changes and I don't think that will happen.

As long as you are creating dummy IATA codes there is no "cleaner solution". It's extremely unlikely there will be modifications for this version so all this talk is mute. However, there is hope for the next version and hopefully FeelThere will put some thought into a solid long term solution (that handles internationals, cargo, regionals, special liveries, etc) instead of the current band-aid approach.

[MJKERR]

This is one of the reasons I have gone back to Tower 2011, it is far more customisable