Runways

[KymriskaDraken]

After giving a pushback clearance I often want to change the departure point to a runway intersection. I've tried saying "Speedbird 1 Pushback approved, expect runway 25R at F" but it's not recognised. So, when the plane has pushed back and is ready to taxi I tell it the runway position "Speedbird 1 runway 25R at F". As soon as I get the readback the plane starts to taxi. Shouldn't he wait until I tell him to taxi?

Speaking of pushbacks, I think there is a bug. The plane calls the Tower for clearance but gives the readback to Ground. 

And finally, is there a way to instruct a plane to cross a runway without waiting for it to stop and then saying "Continue taxi"?

Kev

[pocketdynamo87]

1. When they're pushed back and you tell them either the runway or the runway plus specific taxi instructions, they'll start taxiing immediately. That's normal. If you don't want them to taxi right away, just let them sit there and don't say anything to them. You're correct in so far that you can't tell them a specific intersection to take off from when they're still at the gate. You can only do that once they're pushed back.

2. That's a really minor issue. Depends on the airport. Sometimes they'll call tower, sometimes they'll call ground, sometime they'll call no one specifically.

3. There's no instruction. However, there is a work around for that. Tell them "Hold short of Taxiway xyz", and fill xyz with a taxiway they won't cross anyways. In that case, they'll only hold short of that taxiway - which they won't encounter - and the runway they're assigned to. Not ideal, but it works.

[crbascott]

1 hour ago, KymriskaDraken said:

So, when the plane has pushed back and is ready to taxi I tell it the runway position "Speedbird 1 runway 25R at F". As soon as I get the readback the plane starts to taxi. Shouldn't he wait until I tell him to taxi?

For this command, the taxi phrase is assumed by the game engine.

1 hour ago, KymriskaDraken said:

I've tried saying "Speedbird 1 Pushback approved, expect runway 25R at F" but it's not recognised.

 

20 minutes ago, pocketdynamo87 said:

You're correct in so far that you can't tell them a specific intersection to take off from when they're still at the gate.

I wouldn't say it is necessarily realistic, but with some modifications to the tower3d.rec file you can tell them a specific intersection at pushback. @EliGrim has compiled a list of community mods into a single source (along with a command reference) on his website - https://www.eligrim.de/ 

[EliGrim]

What @pocketdynamo87 said, plus

1 hour ago, KymriskaDraken said:

Speedbird 1 Pushback approved, expect runway 25R at F

is neither a valid command by default nor a realistic one but a useful shortcut. To use this command you need to add the following line to your tower3d.rec file:

#airplane1; PUSHBACK APPROVED EXPECT RUNWAY ;#runway1; AT ;#taxiway1

Alternatively you can use the TOWER3D.REC MOD from this thread:

This is a file containing all the additional and modified commands found by the community over the years that are compatible with the game.
In the VOICE COMMANDS - REFERENCE CARD (v2.04) in the same thread you can find all these commands as a PDF file.

[EliGrim]

Damn! @crbascott beat me by half a second! 😂

[crbascott]

Just now, EliGrim said:

Damn! @crbascott beat me by half a second! 😂

LOL - you're getting slow in your "old age". 🙂 

[KymriskaDraken]

1 hour ago, pocketdynamo87 said:

2. That's a really minor issue. Depends on the airport. Sometimes they'll call tower, sometimes they'll call ground, sometime they'll call no one specifically.
 

I think you missed the point of what I was saying. The conversation goes

Plane: Tower, Speedbird 1 requesting push and start

Tower: Speedbird 1 pushback approved, expect runway 27R

Plane: Ground 27R pushback approved, Speedbird 1.

You see that the plane requests pushback from the Tower but gives the readback to Ground. 

 

Kev

[crbascott]

8 minutes ago, KymriskaDraken said:

I think you missed the point of what I was saying. The conversation goes

Plane: Tower, Speedbird 1 requesting push and start

Tower: Speedbird 1 pushback approved, expect runway 27R

Plane: Ground 27R pushback approved, Speedbird 1.

You see that the plane requests pushback from the Tower but gives the readback to Ground. 

 

Kev

No matter what you call it - bug or minor issue - FeelThere stopped updating the game engine and default airports in early 2018. So, this is something (among others) that we all just have to deal with.

[MJKERR]

3 hours ago, KymriskaDraken said:

Plane: Tower, Speedbird 1 requesting push and start

Tower: Speedbird 1 pushback approved, expect runway 27R

Plane: Ground 27R pushback approved, Speedbird 1.

Which Tower version and airport?

I have Tower 3D Pro and EGLL
I have never noticed this mismatch

Equally, once an aircraft has completed the pushback there is a request
CALLSIGN Ready To Taxi

As above, in order to specify a different pushback direction, from the default, you need to specify either the runway or route
You should not need to specify the intersect at this point
This should be given once the second request is received, and you can then route to runway and lineup point
For 27R this would be A1, A2, A3, A4 or A5

[EliGrim]

1 hour ago, MJKERR said:

I have Tower 3D Pro and EGLL
I have never noticed this mismatch

You were probably too focused on the work ahead to notice. 😉
I just checked 3 videos from 3 different YouTubers (Tower!3D Pro, EGLL) and in all three of them the initial contact was with Tower and PB readback to Ground.

1 hour ago, MJKERR said:

You should not need to specify the intersect at this point

While this is true, it can help with busy schedules if you're not too particular about realism.

[MJKERR]

15 hours ago, EliGrim said:

While this is true, it can help with busy schedules if you're not too particular about realism.

At EGLL the Ground Controller does not give the lineup point
The aircraft is directed to one of the many ground reporting points, and is then handed over to the Departures Controller, and is then directed to either another ground reporting point, intersect or (rapid departure) lineup for runway 
It tends to vary between the two depending on aircraft type and route
In Tower 3D Pro it makes it completely irrelevant

I have posted this link before, but the transmissions made are quite different between reality and what you would expect
https://www.nats.aero/features/plane-talking/ (A British Airways A320 from Heathrow Terminal 5 to Manchester)
"Follow the greens to PLUTO"
In Tower 3D this would be Runway 27R at A3