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Pro wind indicator

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I like the addition of the wind indicator in Pro but the arrow is 180 degrees out. The arrow should point into wind not point downwind. So if the needle is pointing at, say, 270 then a runway closest to 27 should be in use. But in Pro if the needle points at 270 then runway 09 should be in use which is counter intuitive.

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Vic mentioned in the thread below that KSAN is being reexamined to check on what is going on there:

I would also love it if they added a physical windsock to each airport that could be clearly seen from the tower.

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1 hour ago, FeelThere said:

Which shows exactly what we have all been saying;  the prevailing winds are westerly, i.e. from the West, which is the opposite of what we see in the game.

From Wikipedia:  "Typical prevailing winds in San Diego are from the west and most takeoffs and landings at the airport are from east to west utilizing runway 27."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_International_Airport#Runway_configuration_and_landing

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Yep, definitely a predominant wind out of the west. Which is why we are "complaining" because the wind direction is never between 180 and 360. If you go to that same website and change the setting for the wind direction unit to degrees you can see that the predominant wind direction is 292°. My guess is the sim could possibly be interpreting this as 112° and thus why we're seeing easterly winds instead of the predominant westerly winds.    

 

SAN_Wind.JPG.ee2deae1fc662c8843bdf0a78fab20ef.JPG

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To be fair, the topic did start with the statement:

On 3/1/2017 at 3:07 PM, winsaudi said:

The arrow should point into wind not point downwind.

Which of every wind direction reference and/or indication I have seen, the arrow points to the opposite of the source of the wind, or in other words it indicates the direction not the compass heading. So if the wind was from 270 the arrow would point to 90 and if it was from 90 it would point to 270.  In essence it indicates the destination not the origination. Wind direction cannot be compared to a needle on a compass.

But now the topic has turned into the prevailing winds.

In summary, the arrow in Tower!3DPro is correct, but the prevailing winds (from the East) showing up in the sim may be construed as not entirely inaccurate.
But how much does it matter if the wind speed in the sim rarely, if ever, goes above 10kts?

RickyJ

58d06e0073968_mytwocentsXSmall.jpg.506f9e46642f4552cb51ecee8d6e32b4.jpg

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I have said it before; adding a "shifting winds" scenario to the weather choices would make the new wind feature in Pro much more meaningful and interesting.  Nevertheless, we need to get the base winds sorted out first, so things make sense.  I can only assume that someone on the development team is a little confused about how wind reporting works (at least in an aviation context).  As has been stated several times now, wind is normally reported as coming "from"  or "out of" a given direction, not going toward it.

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In an aircraft, the Nav display (ND) indicates wind direction using an arrow usually in the L/H top corner of the display. The arrow shows the direction that the wind is going. i.e the tail of the arrow shows the direction the wind is coming from.

Therefore to take off directly into the wind, the arrow head should be facing towards the aircraft tail. Same for the sim display. If the arrow head is facing 270, the wind is blowing from the east to the west, therefore rwy 27 should be used for operations.

I know it seems a bit back to front compared to a weather cock at home but they indicate the from direction usually because the tail of the home weather cock is bigger then the head, therefore it swings into the wind.

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True are talking ab out controllers here.  Part of a controllers job is to regularly read out the current wind to pilots, usually with the takeoff clearance. This is done in the format Wind 270 at 8, meaning that the wind is coming from 270 degrees.  Thus, it would only be intuitive for them to have indicators that give readouts in the same format to avoid mistakes.   Hopefully Vic can clarify what is going on in Tower 3D Pro, and whether either their indicator readout was accidentally reversed, or whether the winds themselves were accidentally set up backwards to the way they were intended.

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Gentlemen,

Let us release SP1 which should address much more important issues (such as the crashing ADIRS) then we'll look into this wind issue. Even if it's a real thing (which by all means is possible) is a small annoyance compared for a crashing instrument. 
As always we'll release as much as SPs as needed so please don't think once we release and SP then we will abandon supporting T!3DP but our priority now is to release the SP1 asap. We locked the "development" of the SP1 and once we tested it we will release it for you Folks on ATCSuite, feelThere and now on Steam as well.

 

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Finally got around to this.  I agree with 707FAN that in a cockpit the wind is often indicated by an arrow.  A very small section of the display in my aircraft is below showing the direction arrow and a speed of 15kts. But if there is not a full arrowhead & tail the direction shown is where the wind is coming from, see other photo (from a ground display) with "286" digitally and the 286 visually with the red light on the compass rose.  The wind indicator in Pro still is, for me, the wrong way around (or it needs a tail). 
 

anenometer.jpg

2017-04-18 09.52.47.jpg

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Oh those photos are big! Sorry, I didn't realise how they would look until I posted them. It looks like I'm shouting but I can assure you that I am not. ?

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In T!3D the wind indicator should show you where the wind is coming from. So if you see a wind direction of 270 then the landing should be made (on a perfect world) on a runway 27.

 

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39 minutes ago, FeelThere said:

In T!3D the wind indicator should show you where the wind is coming from. So if you see a wind direction of 270 then the landing should be made (on a perfect world) on a runway 27.

 

Agreed, it should.  The digital readout in the game is correct.  I believe the confusion comes from the arrow, which, depending upon one's perspective, can be seen as depicting the opposite.  That is to say that if the wind is 270, to use your example, the arrow in the game is pointing to 90.  I understand that this is literally correct in the sense that the wind is in fact blowing toward 90 degrees (a windsock does the same thing).  However, for many this will be counterintuitive, since they are thinking (and talking to the pilots) in terms of which way the wind is from (it is extremely easy to get things turned around in one's head when you see an arrow pointing the opposite way and you are trying to talk quickly at the same time).  Note Winsaudi's example of a digital anemometer that points toward 286 when the wind is reported as coming from 286.  It then becomes obvious how this could be confusing.  Perhaps it would be better if the arrow were removed entirely, and we just had the digital readout.

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I need to disagree with you this time (a rare occasion :) ). The wind in fact shows you the direction of the wind. It's a visual reference.

 

Vic

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11 minutes ago, FeelThere said:

I need to disagree with you this time (a rare occasion :) ). The wind in fact shows you the direction of the wind. It's a visual reference.

 

Vic

Fair enough :-)  But (there's always a "but") in that case, you should at least consider the earlier suggestion of changing the pointer, which looks like >, to an arrow with a tail that looks something like this   >- - ->, so that there is no question in the user's mind of what is meant.

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5 hours ago, winsaudi said:

in a cockpit the wind is often indicated by an arrow

But you are NOT in a cockpit, you are in the tower.

The wind direction indicator: A wind cone, wind sock, or wind tee installed near the operational runway to indicate wind direction. The large end of the wind cone/wind sock points into the wind as does the large end (cross bar) of the wind tee.

Thereby, the arrow, which is simulating the wind cone, wind sock or wind tree, points opposite the wind direction.  Please let us not change the standard for personal preferences.

RickyJ

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Did somebody mention an animated windsock instead of an arrow?  That would also give and indication of wind speed.

RickyJ

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, futureboy said:

Please let us not change the standard for personal preferences.

Ricky, it is not a personal preference. As a military fast jet pilot I have spent many many half-days in ATC towers as a duty pilot or duty instructor and have seen the wind read out displays change with modernisation over the decades and I have never seen a display that shows where the wind is going to, it is always where it is coming from.

The idea of it replicating a windsock is fallacious, those devices are for pilots about to take-off or land, they are not for ATC controllers who use a display unlike that depicted in Pro.

My earlier posts (as is this one) were attempts to explain the standard that I have seen in towers during my flying career, not a personal preference.

All the best,

Wayne

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5 hours ago, futureboy said:

But you are NOT in a cockpit,

I was yesterday and I will be today! I love my job and they pay me to do it!

Wayne

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7 hours ago, winsaudi said:

I was yesterday and I will be today! I love my job and they pay me to do it!

Wayne

I guess, Wayne you just made me jealous :) What do you fly?

 

Vic

ps.: sorry Folks I promise I will not hijack this topic, but I'm an aviation fan too after all :)

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