Increased realism

[ATControl -- Joe]

Wanted to get a feel on a few changes that could be implemented with a SP update if possible.  These may have been asked about in various posts, but I checked tons of pages and only found a mention or two.  I know these are small things, but for a game that is primarily based on ground movements, these things can really increase the realism, and illustrate the true complexity required.

 

1.  Continue taxi to cross a runway -- This is #1 on the wish list as all FAA airports require "Cross RWY XX" command from ATC.  Continue taxi is only meant for halted planes on non-rwy spaces to move again.   

2.  Wind  -- Wind should always be given in an ATC read back for landings.  Departures will get it to depending upon the controller/airport requirements, but landing should be a required piece.  Every pilot needs to know what they are facing (crosswind, helping, headwind, etc).   Game now will clear an aircraft with a modified cleared to land instruction, but to increase the realism, code in some wind language.

3.  Incremental taxi -- Flow and traffic management is key -- issuing drawn out, lengthy tax instructions is not always effective and is a lot to remember, especially with a lot of ground traffic.  Good way to increase realism and give better control would be....."Taxi via Echo-Charlie - Hold Short at Victor - (to allow another jet to taxi past) - THEN when it's time to move issue further taxi instruction to the next point.  ATC does not have time in real life to call out "hold position" each time there is few jets in a specific area.

4.  Better control of gating -- Give a heads up on the AIDRS when a plane is being given an instruction who is on approach/just landed where that gate will be (even if the plane hasn't landed yet).  Real world ATC will often know the gate ahead of time and be able to issue proper roll out instruction for a high-speed further down the runway to facilitate better/more efficient 

[CL30]

You can issue commands to hold short of a taxiway and runway.

I was just reading recently that some guys stumbled on a "bug" (??) that allows you to have aircraft continue across a runway.  The best example, which now makes LAX a lot more fun to play, is aircraft landing 24R that exit at Zulu.  They still stop on Z immediately after exiting the runway, which is incredibly annoying, however, if you issue the command "HOLD SHORT OF RUNWAY 25R" then they will continue across 24L and on with their taxi instructions.

I agree that incremental taxi instructions would be very helpful.

The gate thing is something that everyone has been crying for for quite a while....and I'm still new here, lol.  Hopefully, that's something for the next version.

Also, did you know you can type stuff in the flight strips?  If you double-click in the center where the two " - " marks are, you can put stuff in there.  I use "T" when they have been cleared to Taxi; L for "Line Up and Wait"; X24L if they've been cleared across a runway.  It's really helpful at KSAN when you assign a taxiway exit prior to landing.  Trying to remember if they got B7 or B8 was a pain.

[crbascott]

All great observations and asks that have been brought up before (except maybe #2). Based on previous FeelThere responses, I don't envision seeing any of these in a SP, but we can hold out hope. More than likely though, as CL30 mentioned, we'll probably have to wait for next version of Tower.  

Regarding #2, you can modify tower3d.rec with a text editor (notepad) and add the following command to the file (obviously make a backup of the original just in case)

#airplane1; RUNWAY ;#runway1; CLEARED TO LAND WIND IS ;#number1; AT ;#number2; KNOTS

I tried several variations tying to match the correct phraseology below but the version above is all that I could get to work.
Correct phraseology from JO 7110.65W− RUNWAY (number), WIND (surface wind direction and velocity), CLEARED TO LAND

Craig

[ATControl -- Joe]

Craig & CL, 

 

Great comments and helpful tips.  Great idea to input the lines for wind.  I get the sneaky feeling that the longer we wait for SP releases all these "wants" can be accomplished like you did above w some basic code updates.

 It would be nice if FeelThere would accept submissions for the public.  We do the work and get it tested by them and put out in more regular releases.  Maybe this will get some traction.  I know they are probably working on the next airport release or two --seems like a good idea to involve the public.  

[coyotedelmar]

On 8/4/2017 at 6:00 AM, CL30 said:

You can issue commands to hold short of a taxiway and runway.

I was just reading recently that some guys stumbled on a "bug" (??) that allows you to have aircraft continue across a runway.  The best example, which now makes LAX a lot more fun to play, is aircraft landing 24R that exit at Zulu.  They still stop on Z immediately after exiting the runway, which is incredibly annoying, however, if you issue the command "HOLD SHORT OF RUNWAY 25R" then they will continue across 24L and on with their taxi instructions

Yep, I started using that a lot at PHL to get planes to not stop at 35 (when it wasn't in use). Just tell them to hold short of something out of the way.

Downside is it does the same with taxiways, so can't give the complicated hold instructions like in 2011, they'll just hold at one and blow through everything else. 

[FeelThere_Vic]

Folks,

These are all noted and once we'll begin working on the next version I will open a request topic where all these comments, suggestions will be considered.

 

Thank you

 

Vic

 

[ATControl -- Joe]

Vic,

Good to see that we have the ear of the game makers, who are open to suggestions and improvements.  If you're open to taking a list like in the prior, just a couple more items to consider that would be SUPER helpful as I'm getting further into the game.

1.  LAX Departures -- I know I have commented about wind being part of a readback, but when you depart LAX and are handed off by the tower to departure the speak is "Contact SO CAL Departure" -- this would be a cool detail to add in for LAX.

2,  Line up and wait behind next landing aircraft -- Can you please look into increasing the line up speed with this command?  Planes are almost at the end of the runway and the next jet is just making it's turn to line up.  Good idea would be to use a hit box (programming trick ha) and when the plane crosses the threshold the next plane is already on the move to line up just like in real life.

3.  Runway crosses -- it takes so long for an aircraft to cross after waiting at a runway.  Watch any footage of runway crosses -- planes hustle across.  It would be nice to see an update to match real world speed.

4.  Proper length rollouts -- esp at KSAN.  Starting to see some 'stick' with landings where aircraft are not going more than halfway down the runway and wanting to take off.  Normal rollout for KSAN is at least to B7  or B8 for most passenger jets.  

 

There are not knocks against the game, b/c I think it has quality and good potential.  These are just realistic things that make us want to play the game more.  I've been around ATC for decades now, and know the quirks at many of the airports --- and things like "Contact SO CAL departure" at LAX set it apart and make it unique.  Let me know if you guys need other input or I can Beta test for you guys!   

[crbascott]

If you are looking for realism then you should consider removing the command you reference in #2 from your repertoire, at least according to the FAA. Here's an excerpt from FAA's Air Traffic Organization Policy (JO 7110.65W) :

3−9−4. LINE UP AND WAIT (LUAW)

a. The intent of LUAW is to position aircraft for an imminent departure. Authorize an aircraft to line up and wait, except as restricted in subpara g, when takeoff clearances cannot be issued because of traffic. Issue traffic information to any aircraft so authorized. Traffic information may be omitted when the traffic is another aircraft which has landed on or is taking off the runway and is clearly visible to the holding aircraft. Do not use conditional phrases such as “behind landing traffic” or “after the departing aircraft.”

[ATControl -- Joe]

Crbascott, I agree.  I don't know why it's in the game.  I was just making reference to it because it's IN the game ha.  If they are going to have it in the game, at least make it somewhat realistic.  

[Sky King]

The issue of LUAW has come up before. If my old memory serves me correctly, the reason it is there is that it is permissible in ICAO airspace but not FAA.

[Pdubya]

2 hours ago, Sky King said:

The issue of LUAW has come up before. If my old memory serves me correctly, the reason it is there is that it is permissible in ICAO airspace but not FAA.

It wouldn't be the first time those wacky europeans have flown in the face of "superior American convention" and I am sure it won't be the last!

I think we Yanks naturally take offence when our "rebel" genes kick in. Oh... and just in case, the above is just dripping with sarcasm. We need some emoticons for that. ;p

[Sky King]

Yes, I understand and in fact, the long used "Taxi into position and hold" was replaced with LUAW by the FAA to bring us more in line with ICAO.

[crbascott]

3 hours ago, Sky King said:

The issue of LUAW has come up before. If my old memory serves me correctly, the reason it is there is that it is permissible in ICAO airspace but not FAA.

Yep, that's why I made sure to specifically mention the FAA. Here's the thread where it was discussed before - sounds like the command is used in Australia.

http://forum.simflight.com/topic/83253-tower3d-pro-line-up-and-wait-behind-next-landing-ac/ 

[Sky King]

Thanks Crbascott!

SK