Methos

Well like the title says .. I cannot use KJFK anymore. I setup at 18:00 with full traffic and periodically, I would key the mic to speak and it would beep (on) and then beep (off) immediately or after I barely said anything. At one point, it just keep beeping on and off before I could get in a word. I will attach the entire output log but here's a snippet of what it looks like. You can see where it stuttered - repeating, "COMMAND" over and over or cutting me off part way through the call. I thought maybe it was my keyboard but I've used 3 different keyboards and it happens no matter what .. sometimes once here or there, other times like this, just hammers me over and over so I can't issue instructions at all. DAMNED frustrating ..... COMMAND: AAL1972 TAXI TO RAMP VIA 18:27:24 alt: 0 takeoff: False/False/-2 OWNER_TOWER r: 4R * AAL1972 => PARSE CMD: TAXI TO RAMP VIA 18:27:24 * AAL1972 => ADD HISTORY: AAL1972: Negative! COMMAND: COMMAND: AAL1972 COMMAND: AIR COMMAND: AAL1972 TAXI TO RAMP VIA F B 18:27:39 alt: 0 takeoff: False/False/-2 OWNER_TOWER r: 4R * AAL1972 => PARSE CMD: TAXI TO RAMP VIA F B 18:27:39 alt: 0 takeoff: False/False/-2 OWNER_TOWER t: T8_32 r: 4R * AAL1972 => STATE CHANGE from STATE_WAITING to STATE_TO_TERMINAL 18:27:39 alt: 0 takeoff: False/False/-2 OWNER_TOWER t: T8_32 r: 4R * AAL1972 => VIA roadcut: TAXI TO RAMP VIA FOXTROT BRAVO 18:27:39 alt: 0 takeoff: False/False/-2 OWNER_TOWER t: T8_32 r: 4R * AAL1972 => SAY: TAXI TO RAMP VIA FOXTROT BRAVO AMERICAN ONE NINER SEVEN TWO 18:27:39 * AAL1972 => ADD HISTORY: AAL1972: TAXI TO RAMP VIA F B AAL1972 18:27:39 alt: 0 takeoff: False/False/-2 OWNER_TOWER t: T8_32 r: 4R * AAL1972 => Start calc route from: H start idx: 21 18:27:39 alt: 0 takeoff: False/False/-2 OWNER_TOWER t: T8_32 r: 4R * AAL1972 => Calc from: H 18:27:40 alt: 0 takeoff: False/False/-2 OWNER_TOWER t: T6_7 r: 4R * PIL3650 => stop gate at: (5672.7, 2174.6, 0.0) takeoffgate: null COMMAND: 18:27:46 alt: 6693 takeoff: False/False/-2 OWNER_TOWER r: 4R * ICE615 => STATE CHANGE from STATE_INCOMING to STATE_INCOMING 18:27:46 alt: 6693 takeoff: False/False/-2 OWNER_TOWER r: 4R * ICE615 => Activate incoming plane. COMMAND: COMMAND: COMMAND: COMMAND: COMMAND: COMMAND: COMMAND: COMMAND: COMMAND: COMMAND: COMMAND: COMMAND: 18:28:00 * DAL2851 => ADD HISTORY: DAL2851: Tower, DELTA 2851 requesting push and start. Try open ESC menu Open ESC menu And when you have a situation like in the screenshots below, you can NOT afford to waste even 1 second on this crap. (lol) Seriously, this is a problem. output_log.txt

Well here's the strange thing: I started one session and in about 5 minutes it was slower than dirt .. only a few aircraft too. So I restarted and got a good 4 hours with NO issues at all. Then the other day I'm about 40 minutes in and, I don't know the exact numbers but it LOOKED like about 2 FPS. ~ John

BAO Tower was a classic, wasn't it? I actually made an addon airport for that back in the day: KPHX - just never got to do the tower view. Spent many hours at KDCA with it's quirky behaviors (certain aircraft ALWAYS requested, "On the go request right turn out of traffic" - think it was anything departing runway 15). It WAS in a class by itself .. and now I think we'd all agree that Tower!3D Pro has captured that position. Of course it's got it's quirks too but still can't say enough good things about it.

Well I was just playing KJFK with real traffic and real color KJFK on Tower!3D Pro SP2 from 1800 and I had to shut it down because it was lagging so badly, it was simply unplayable. And I'm running an 8 core AMD-8350 (okay so technically it's a quad but still) at 4GHz with 8GB ram and 2GB video. VERY disappointing as I was getting absolutely slammed and loving every second of it! Lol But I had to shut it down because it was like playing a new release of MSFS (you know, how they always made new versions that could only be run on computers that wouldn't be out for another 2 years :p )

Ummm .. is this a hint as to the next big thing? We talking some kind of ATC board game? :)

Ok well if not that, what about breaking up the terminals into smaller bits? Again as an example using KBOS: Terminal_A_1: PIL,WJA,RPA (gates A1-A11) Terminal_A_2: DAL (gates A13-A17) Terminal_A_3: SWA (gates A18-A22) Terminal_B_1: ACA (gates B1,B2,B3) Terminal_B_2: AAL (gates B4,B6,B8,B10,B12,B14,B15-B20, B30-B36) Terminal_B_3: UAL (gates B21-B29) Terminal_B_4: AWI,PEN (gates B5,B7,B9a,B9b,B11,B13) Terminal_B_5: NKS (gates B37, B38) Terminal_C_1:VRD,ASA (gates C40-C42) Terminal_C_2:KAP (gate C27 - ga ramp style with several spots) Terminal_C_3: JBU (gates C8-C21, C25, C26, C28-C34, C36) Terminal_E_1: POE (gates E1,E2,E3) Terminal_E_2: AER,AMX,BER,AEA,AFR,AZA,AVA,RZO,BAW,CPA,CMP,ELY,UAE,CHH,IBE,ICE,JAL,DLH,NAX,QTR,SAS,SWR,THY,VIR,WOW (gates E4-E12) Terminal_North_Cargo: UPS,ABX (3 spots) Terminal_South_Cargo: FDX (5 spots) Terminal_GA: GA Okay so, there's your kbos_terminal.txt file. :p But really, what about something like that? Or are the gates and assignments built into the physical model and therefore can't be split up?

School? In August? That sucks .. mine doesn't go back until the 30th and in fact she's coming with me. Like you say, this is a rare, potentially once in a lifetime thing. And, we're actually staying in Spartanburg .. originally tried for Columbus but EVERYTHING is sold out! Guessing you're gona get a pretty decent show where you are just the same .. not totality but close enough. :) ~ John

One other quick thought - another benefit of this setup would be that you would know the exact gate the aircraft is going to IMMEDIATELY. We all know how when you click on an arriving aircraft it highlights the terminal .. so if each "terminal" is in fact a gate then you will know which gate they want and be able to issue very specific taxi commands right away. Just sayin. :) ~ John

No comment needed! Pics speak for themselves! Nice! Only real question is, will Real Traffic include the JANET flights up to (shhhhhh!) ..... you know, that secret place up north that no one's supposed to know about but everyone does? :p ~ John

This is true! Lol Gona be heading ALMOST your way next month, by the way. Little road trip to catch the eclipse in SC. I tried to work it to hang a right over the KATL but, just doesn't fit the route we're taking. :( SOMEDAY I'll get over there. ~ John

That's exactly what I do. I'd LIKE to give VERY specific instructions but, with multiple entrances to each ramp and not knowing which specific gate until issuing some kind of taxi to ramp command, I start with, "Taxi to ramp via A/B" depending on which way they need to go to get to their terminal. Then I'll get specific enroute if needed to avoid other traffic, mostly just hold short of taxiway blah. A REALLY SUPER AWESOME feature to have (I know - save it for the next version .. Tower!4D - Extreme) would be to be able to tack on a hold short at the end of a taxi routing rather than needing a separate command: "Taxi to ramp via B W hold short A." And specific to runway crossings, instead of continue taxi, "Cross runway 22R." And, starting to ramble here. :p

Just had a thought here. I know it's been mentioned before and it's worth stressing, having a little more control over the gate assignments would seriously increase the realism in some areas. For example, it's all different now but when I was at KBOS there was one Terminal B but it was split into US Airways on one side and American on the other, some of the AA side was for American Eagle/Connection, Some of the US side just for the Shuttle, an area for express. Actually, if I remember right, some gates were destination specific - I seem to recall B4 was KPIT, B6 was KCLT and B8 was KPHL or something close to that. B5, B7, B9A and B9B were express, etc. You get the idea. But going with a standard, "Tower" designation of Terminal_B you could get a spattering of aircraft all over. That's why I divided up KBOS in Tower 2011 to Terminal_B1, Terminal_B2, etc. so I could put all Eagleflights on the end of the wing, all US Airways Shuttles on their extension (which now wraps around to United), etc. So the point of this nostalgic indulgence is, can we get a little more detailed on the terminal gate assignments? And I realize this could get a bit tedious but, if we REALLY want to go for realism and the ability to customize, not just give each terminal it's own line in the kbos_terminal file but, each GATE. I mean, why not .. instead of this: Terminal_A: DAL, SWA have this: Terminal_A15: DAL Terminal_A16: DAL Terminal_A17: DAL Terminal_A18: SWA Terminal_A19: SWA Terminal_A20: SWA Is that something that could be accomplished without killing performance? (No idea how the allocation of gates affects things or how pathfinding is affected by them.) Just a thought. However on the heels of a comment on the cargo areas at KATL (gee, could it be AvWriter? :p ) .. North and South cargo should be clearly defined as separate ramps/terminals. North cargo is for UPS, DHL and I BELIEVE ABX has been known to park there. South cargo is the domain of FEDEX exclusively. ~ John

WHOA! Note to self - never give Andrew any rope or he'll hang us ALL! Lol Talk about running with it! Lol I just hope their aircraft get good frame rates. :)

Okay so, just to try to avoid any more surprises while controlling at KJFK, I went through the schedule and noted the airlines that are used. Then I adjusted the terminal file to make sure everyone has a place to go. Added some cargo airlines that are in the schedule but not assigned gates, etc. I also made better use of terminal 6 by assigning it to Pinnacle, since the extension of terminal 4 doesn't appear to be complete here and to open up gates at terminal 7. Here's my kjfk_terminal file: Terminal_GA: GA Terminal_1: AFL,AFR,AHY,AIJ,THY,AMX,AUS,AZA,CAY,CCA,CES,DAT,DLH,EEZ,EVA,FJM,JAL,KAL,NAX,PAL,RAM,SVA,TAE Terminal_2: DAL Terminal_4: AAR,AEA,AIC,AJM,ARA,AVA,BWA,CAL,CMP,CSN,CXA,DAL,EDV,ELY,ETD,GRL,GJS,JAT,KAC,KLM,MSR,PAI,SAA,SCX,SEU,SIA,SWR ,TCX,UAE,UZB,VIR,VRD,VOI,LRC,TAT,TCF,GTS Terminal_5: JBU,EIN,HAL,TAP Terminal_6: PIL Terminal_7: ANA,ARG,AUI,BAW,BOS,IBE,ICE,LOT,QFA,QTR,IBE,AUI Terminal_8: AAL,BER,CPA,FIN,LAN,RJA,RPA,TAM,QTR,LNE,CVA,EGF,LOF,ASA Terminal_Cargo: ICL,FDX,ABX,UPS So then I set about the task of, "convincing" the ai to properly speak the callsigns. Here's my list of corrections - yeah I know, "QWON TIS" Lol But hey, it works! (sort of) As I was going through the kjfk_airlines file (as far as I know, the same data used for all airports) I found and corrected some other obvious errors, like 4 character IATA codes (insert eyeroll), spelling errors, incorrect callsigns, etc. Some are not quite right but still .. "A VEE ANKA" isn't perfect but it's better than, "A-V-I-A-N-C-A." Anyway, here's what I got. Happy Controlling! AFR, AF, AIR FRANCE, Air France, France AVA, AV, A VEE ANKA, Avianca - Aerovias Nacionales de Colombia, Colombia WJA, WS, WEST JET, WestJet, Canada AAR, OZ, A SHE ANNA, Asiana Airlines, Republic of Korea BAW, BA, SPEED BIRD, British Airways, United Kingdom JAL, JL, JAPAN AIR, Japan Airlines, Japan KAL, KE, KOREAN AIR, Korean Air, Republic of Korea QFA, QF, KWON TIS, Qantas Airways, Australia JBU, B6, JET BLUE, JetBlue Airways, United States SKW, OO, SKY WEST, SkyWest Airlines, United States AIC, AI, AIR INDIA, Air India, India RAM, AT, ROYAL AIR MORE ROCK, Royal Air Maroc, Morocco FIN, AY, FIN AIR, Finnair, Finland BWA, BW, CARIBBEAN AIRLINES, Caribbean Airlines, Trinidad and Tobago ICE, FI, ICE AIR, Icelandair, Iceland FDX, FX, FEDEX, FEDERAL EXPRESS, United States ABX, GB, ABEX AIR, Airborne Express, United States UPS, 5X, UPS, UNITED PARCEL SERVICE, United States LPE, LP, LAN PERU, LAN Peru, Peru THY, TK, TURK AIR, Turkish Airlines, Turkey RYR, FR, RYAN AIR, Ryanair, Ireland TAM, JJ, TAM, TAM Linhas Aereas, Brazil (Also replace BLC with TAM in KJFK Terminal 8) RVP, WV, AEROVIP, Air VIP, Portugal WUA, WU, Wizz Air Ukraine, Wizz Air Ukraine, Ukraine PTI, PT, PRIVATAIR, Privatair, Switzerland JIA, OH, BLUE STREAK, PSA Airlines, United States PBN, DJ, BLUEBIRD, Pacific Blue, New Zealand CYL, CT, CITYLINER, Air One Cityliner, Italy TAH, QE, AIR MOOREA, Air Moorea, France BEZ, A641, SEA BREEZE, Kingfisher Air Services, United States (can't find an IATA code for this one but that clearly is not it)

I personally don't understand what's so hard about updating their files. It appears that the same airlines, aircraft and airports data files are used for each airport so why not just fix it now? After downloading and trying out KJFK the other day (love it by the way! One step closer to KBOS! :D - plug :p ), I found even MORE errors with real traffic. Simple stuff that could be fixed so easily and honestly, many of which should have been caught before release. I mean really, Caribbean spells out it's entire name! Why? Ummm, it was mis-spelled with 2 "r's". (eyeroll) We have UPS flights going in and out of JFK with no assigned parking - another simple fix. And my personal favorite: Terminal 6 (ummm, dosn't exist anymore but anyway) .. assigned parking for ....... (wait for it!) ...... WIZZ AIR!!! That's right, Hungary's low cost regional carrier now with a non-stop service from Budapest! Got their own terminal and everything! (Lol) Come on guys .. these are simple fixes. I emailed Nyerges Design and was told, "if developer release the next airport we will release the big Real Traffic update. Please your patiente!" Patience? Real Traffic was released almost a year ago .. Proper testing and correction of these errors could have been done in ONE DAY. I mean hell if I felt motivated, I'd go through the files myself and upload corrected files here. Hmmm ... think I might just do that .. :)

Funny, I just got KJFK the other day and during my first session, I was running departures off 31L and arrivals to 31R .. arrivals seemed to pick up so I opened both 31's for arrivals and had a QTR flight roll all the way to the end of 31L! I mean ALLLLLL the way .. then it sat there forever. Kept issuing taxi commands and EVENTUALLY it turned off and went to the ramp. Curious, it was in that same area I had another issue .. a FDX flight called for pushback from Cargo Area A .. I cleared it and went back to sorting my other messes .. probably about 5 minutes later I realized they still hadn't pushed yet - reissued the command. Pushback Approved! Great! Still didn't move. Curious ...

I think feelThere is launching their own AIRLINE! And first stop will be Boston to showcase and promote their upcoming KBOS release! :D (plug :p )

Actually, I haven't played it for a while .. but today I got KJFK and had some fun (ummm, yeah - if you call forgetting you had someone lined up on a shortened runway 31L departure and cleared someone for the full length departure! Oops! Scrambling for some command to abort takeoff - don't think there is one.) Anyway, I'm still having the issue with C8 at KLAX. I haven't checked though, if there's been any updates since .. speaking of updates, I think I heard Real Traffic has an update? All I can say is, God I hope so! It's getting tiring at JFK listening to all those International carriers spelling their names! (lol) Hour #1 at KJFK: https://youtu.be/wKHQAwHbRQE

And just for kicks .. here are some KBOS ops from Tower!2011, with my own custom made flight schedule that I built painstakingly one flight at a time from the actual arrivals and departures at the time. I also modified the terminals heavily. For example, Terminal B was split into Terminal B American, Terminal B US Airways, Terminal B US Airways Shuttle, Terminal B American Eagle, etc. So each airline and each type within each airline goes to the appropriate area. (For the most part :p )

Then let's get another one started! :) I seem to remember reading somewhere that KBOS is either in the works or at least a planned airport for T3D. That one is my, "backyard airport" (used to work there) and the reason I spent many MANY hours in Tower!2011. Not that KLAX and KATL aren't challenges but I enjoy the challenge KBOS presents with the crosswind runways. For example, having arrivals coming in on 22L and 27 while departing from 22L (and 22R: non-jet). Not to mention dealing with Cape Air and it's ability to land with about 3 feet of runway! Okay, all aircraft approaching taxiway N, Cessna 402 making it's way to terminal C, clear the way please! (More like, Cair 5155 hold short of taxiway november, for about 30 minutes) Ha! The other thing I like about KBOS is that everything for the most part is right in front of you. You're not getting whiplash swinging 180 degrees to the runways on the other side of the field. It's all the action right in your face. The tower is practically directly above the ramps for terminals B and C so plenty of closeups. But PLEASE, you've got to give us north and south cargo. (KLAX for example has no cargo ramp - unless you put them on the GA ramp.) I used to love looking out the US Airways terminal and seeing those big DC-10's across the ramp. Followed by the characteristic drone of an AA Saab 340B taxiing by (eyeroll - thankfully they've gone to all RJ's now and no longer park overflow traffic near Terminal A). Anyway, a great airport for T3D, in my opinion. Just over 1,000 ops per day, about 700 less than KLAX but still a challenge depending on how the runways are configured. And right now with runway 4R/22L out of service for repaving, there's an added challenge! So that's my, "plug" if you will. I'll have to get down there and shoot some video sometime from central parking or Revere Beach but there's plenty already, including ATC recordings from the famous, "Boston John." (not me - ha!) ~ John

I don't know if this is official procedure or not but what I do is clear all aircraft to land as soon as they call. Then if I have aircraft queuing for departure on the same runway (or parallel without minimum separation or crosswind runways) I will issue departure commands up until the arriving aircraft cross the 5 mile range circle. That should ensure that there is plenty of time to clear the runway. Gona have to listen in to some tower ATC now to see what they really do. Mostly check out ground control, especially Kennedy Steve and the classic ... :)

Personally, the only time I use the heading commands are to direct aircraft out of each others way, for example if there is a go around .. or if controlling a tower with parallel runways that do not have minimum separation. For example, when using KBOS in 2011, there is a noise abatement procedure for all jet aircraft departing runway 22L to turn left to 140 degrees. I use that in the event that I have a prop taking off on 22R (not at exactly the same time as you'll get dinged) to widen the space between them - prop stays on 216, jet turns left away to 140. There's so much going on, especially in 3D Pro, that I don't even have time to deal with heading changes, to be honest. One thing I have noticed .. some aircraft refuse heading changes once airborne. For example, I once had aircraft coming in at KLAX on 25L while I was departing 7L (wind picked up so a flipped the runways). I departed 7L and request a turnout to the north (don't remember, maybe 040 degrees?). Pilot responded, "Negative." Could be because it had an established departure procedure? One other note: in 3D Pro, aircraft DO use departure procedures and turn onto their proper headings (whatever they may be) but in 2011, they fly runway heading until off the map or until you instruct them to do otherwise. I would agree that checking airnav.com to see the departure procedures is a good idea (they are about 3/4 down the page) .. will be things like, aircraft departing to the west, north, whatever tend to follow this pattern, etc. However, since they're already set to that, why would we need to alter their heading? Sorry, just thinking out loud. :p I'm glad the command is there .. just don't see much need for it as tower control is rather limited - pretty much just clear in and clear out, let approach and departure deal with them! I've got a disaster on my ramp to fix! Lol Don't know if this has been said either but, checking youtube for REAL ATC could be a help too .. to get a feel for the dialog. Of course, what you hear there won't be what you must conform to in Tower - either version. For example, you might hear ground instruct an aircraft, "Delta 929, echo to bravo short of victor" which in Tower would have to be split into 2 commands and altered: "Delta 929 taxi to ramp via echo bravo." "Delta 929 hold short of taxiway victor." That's something I'd like to see in the next version, the ability to issue taxi commands without defining the end point .. in the event the ramp is crowded and you need to route them around, like if you have departures and arrivals lined up together and an aircraft has already pushed back to exit the ramp, arrival can't get in but the departures need to keep moving so, taxi the arrival in a loop to come back around when the alleyway is clear. Okay, ramble over . :p

You can find just about any airport map by going to https://www.airnav.com/airports/ and entering the IATA or ICAO of the airport you want. Scroll down the page and on the right, there is (in MOST cases) a .pdf you can download that has the airport map with all taxiways labeled. Come to think of it, I think they were included with 2011. You can also check youtube for videos. There aren't a lot out there with voice recognition (I just posted a short series with 3D Pro, http://forum.simflight.com/topic/83307-tower3d-pro-video-showcasing-voice-recogntion/ - cheap plug. Lol - and I know Jeff Favignano has several videos using 2011). That should give you a pretty good idea what it's like. And you can always adjust the amount of traffic in each version so if it's too much, just dial it back. I WILL say that 100% REAL traffic at KLAX in 3D Pro is FAR more intense than the same in 2011.

Hey, I guess it depends on what you're looking for. I was thoroughly satisfied with 2011 .. put in MANY hours at KBOS with my own traffic file that I painstakingly made 1 flight at a time from the real schedule. (You don't have to do that .. I'm just a masochist. :p ) Tower!3D Pro on the other hand is not just 3D but more realistic in the commands that you give. For example, in 2011 you might say, "Delta 275 cleared for takeoff" whereas in in 3D Pro you can say, "Delta 275 wind is 240 at 5 knots, runway 27 right cleared for takeoff." It also "helps you out" by drawing the taxi path right to the gate/runway on the ADIRS so you know exactly how they are going to get there. This is especially helpful when taxiing to gates, as in 2011 you only know the terminal if you look in the text file and see what airlines are assigned where. In 3D Pro you see right on the screen which specific gate they want. Another nice thing about 2011 is that it's been out for a while so there are MANY addon airports. There's also an editor so you can make your own or modify existing ones. For example, at KBOS I edited the gates so instead of having say, terminal A set for Delta, Delta Connection and Southwest, I split it into terminal_a_delta, terminal_a_southwest, etc. so they would go to EXACTLY and ONLY the gates they're supposed to. I'm told there will be no such editor for 3D Pro because of the complexity of this version. So again, depends on what you're looking for. My opinion, 3D Pro is more realistic and more immersive. 2011 has more options in terms of more airports and maybe more beginner oriented because of the simplified commands. Enjoy! ~ John

Wildcard ... and that's why we have a community! Thanks for the heads up on that!