Dual Monitor

[DeltaVII]

@Ron C @EliGrim @BillA Just testing a theory: Did your Microsoft Edge change to the new version recently (you can identify it by the new icon) before the problems began?

Since Microsoft is notorious for their behaviour in the browser wars (are you all old enough to remember Netscape Navigator?), every remotely tech-savvy guy knows how deeply integrated their browser is into the system. If Edge upgrades, so does the Windows explorer and libraries doing the window handling.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised, if the common denominator were the Edge upgrade.

[Ron C]

Thank you.  I'll give it a try.  I was wondering why very time I re-installed the game that all the airports I had set up came back in the same configuration after I had already uninstalled the game.  I'm not that familiar how registries work (but I don't mind learning new things).

[EliGrim]

@DeltaVII That's quite an idea. But in this case, I don't think Edge is responsible. I don't see why an Edge Update should touch the Feelthere group registry entries.
I don't know if the game stores the window sizes and positions in the registry once when they change or intermittently. If the latter is the case, it's quite possible that an update (while T!3D is running) or a background program that causes the desktop to refresh or restart is responsible.
What exactly causes this problem I don't know and I don't have any starting point at the moment.

35 minutes ago, Ron C said:

I was wondering why very time I re-installed the game that all the airports I had set up came back in the same configuration after I had already uninstalled the game.

It is quite common that an uninstaller does not delete entries from the Windows Registry or leave the installation folder with an e.g. INI file where user settings are stored. The idea behind this is user comfort, to have the last settings at hand should the software be reinstalled.
I use a software which monitors the installation and with which I can undo all changes to the system when uninstalling. (But to be honest, I forget to use it in most cases!)
Since you are using the CCleaner, you could clean the registry after a software uninstallation, which should actually delete the corresponding contents from the registry, since the directories on the hard disk do no longer exist. Personally, I am not a fan of CCleaner, but I don't know a good alternative either.

[Ron C]

DeltaVII, I’m not sure I know what the new Edge icon looks like.  I use Chrome as my primary internet browser and Edge as my secondary.  My Edge shortcut icon is still the blue small “e” (been that way since 2018).  I ran a search for “Edge” on my “C” drive and found all kinds of items; many of them in the 2020 time frame.  Do you know when the latest Edge version change occurred?  I believe my DBRITE issue started in the latter part of 2019 and the other two windows earlier this year.

[DeltaVII]

2 minutes ago, EliGrim said:

@DeltaVII That's quite an idea. But in this case, I don't think Edge is responsible. I don't see why an Edge Update should touch the Feelthere group registry entries.

It doesn't. But the trouble is probably caused by a - now deprecated or redesigned - Windows API call by either FeelThere or their IDE. If the Edge upgrade brought a redesigned version of that call, it could be that the old settings are still in prefetch or superfetch settings, and those given to the Windows API might lead to it not being able to format those windows properly, unless prefetch/superfetch learns how to do it right by re-formatting the windows. Something along those lines, probably.

[DeltaVII]

2 minutes ago, Ron C said:

My Edge shortcut icon is still the blue small “e” (been that way since 2018).

Ah, okay, there goes my theory...

The new icon is a blue wave (probably because they think Edge could crush other browsers like a Tsunami?) and resembles the Firefox logo quite a bit.

The update number is "KB4559309", and I got it on June 13. (Microsoft messing up updates is not new - just recently they messed up the June 9 updates KB4557957 (V2004), KB4560960 (V190x), KB4561608 (V1809), KB4561621 (V1803), KB4561602 (V1709), KB4561616 (V1607), KB4561649 (V1507) which led to lots of people not being able to print anymore, and the bug fix available through the update catalog website (not Windows Update) had side-effects, if you were surfing via LTE...)

[Ron C]

Wow! A lot of update numbers.  Haven’t had any recent printer issues so I guess I dodge the bullet on that one.

[Ron C]

EliGrim:  Thank you for the education.   So just to reconfirm, I don’t have to reinstall the game after I run the remove setting .reg; therefore, the next time I start the game everything in the program should go back to the first time ever installed defaults.

 Also I’m still trying to learn how to navigate around this forum (I’d like to get  more involved in the topics/discussions, not so much from the technical side (as you can probably tell I’m not most savvy guy about that) but from the controller/user simulation side (I’m a retired 26 year experienced Air Force controller – though that was a long time ago).  The thing I don’t know how to do is how to address a response to specific individuals like you and DeltaVII  were just doing (i.e. what do you have to do to get the “@DeltaVII” that is highlighted in blue at the start of your entry.  I’m sure it is a simple process I’m just don’t know how to do it.

[EliGrim]

47 minutes ago, Ron C said:

So just to reconfirm, I don’t have to reinstall the game after I run the remove setting .reg; therefore, the next time I start the game everything in the program should go back to the first time ever installed defaults.

Correct. I have not tried the file myself, but this is exactly what should happen. The game does not need to be reinstalled.

47 minutes ago, Ron C said:

The thing I don’t know how to do is how to address a response to specific individuals [..]

Use the @ sign and type the first characters of the user name. A small window should then appear from which you can click on the corresponding username. The more letters you type, the more accurate the selection.

To quote a part of a text, mark it by dragging with the left mouse button pressed. The option "Quote selection" should then appear.

And a pro tip that almost nobody here in the forum uses:
If you don't want to create a paragraph by pressing ENTER but just a line break, hold down the SHIFT key while pressing ENTER.

You can hold down Ctrl and right click on a link to get more options and turn this:
https://www.google.com/
into this:
Still a link to Google

If you insert a forum URL, for example this one:
https://forum.simflight.com/topic/89864-dual-monitor/
this happens:

That's all I can think of right now.

[EliGrim]

Oh, and to avoid double posts, meaning several posts in a row, use the edit function!

Just to avoid what I am doing with this post, since there is no reason for this post to be an individual one if no one has replied in the meantime! 😉

Edit: Sometimes it can make sense to create a new post after some time has passed. But single posts that are written directly after each other are not appreciated by the moderators.

Edited July 11, 2020 by EliGrim

[Ron C]

2 hours ago, EliGrim said:

Oh, and to avoid double posts, meaning several posts in a row, use the edit function

Thank you for the education.   You can now probably expect to see more forum participation by me.  I’ve been a member for over 6 years, but for the most part I’ve been quietly monitoring it and gaining a lot of useful information, schedules and tools.   Good to know about the double posts; I assume that they are what I’ve done a couple of times and you did above (i.e., don’t send two posts in a row to the same individual without first having another post for that individual or someone else.  I don't want to be a bad boy (LOL).

Having said that:

2 hours ago, EliGrim said:

Correct. I have not tried the file myself, but this is exactly what should happen. The game does not need to be reinstalled.

I used the remove setting.reg tool.  It definitely resets everything to initial install including your points rests them to zero).  initial results were inconsistent.  The first time that I minimized the window (used the single monitor screen icon on the windows’ top bar) worked on my primary monitor.  I was even able to move the windows over to the second monitor.  However, I was having problems resizing the window.  After I closed the windows, I tried minimizing them again on my primary monitor and just got the blank window icons again on the task bar.  I re-ran the settings tool and this time the windows minimized on the primary monitor.  I closed them and tried again on the primary monitor; however, this time they all went to blank window icons on the taskbar ribbon.  I tried the settings.reg tool a third time and got the same results minimized correctly the first try and blank task bar windows the second time.  On the previous second and third attempts I did not try any windows resizing.  I tried one more time running the tool; this time all three windows initially minimized on the primary monitor.  Then I tried putting the DBRITE on the second monitor; it worked!  However, I then resized my strip window on the main monitor and then tried to minimize it on the main monitor; I got a blank strip window icon on the task bar.  Then I tried the ADIRS window it appears to work on both monitors, but if try resizing it to fit on the second monitor it goes away (no minimized task bar window icon) and I have to bring it back up using the control panel.
Does this give you or anybody else any ideas as to what is going on here?  For me with my somewhat limited tech knowledge this is becoming a real head scratcher. 

 

[EliGrim]

It's a very odd behavior.
Make sure that tower3d.exe is executed with administrative rights.

Do you have an anti-virus software in use (what I endorse)?
Make sure that tower3d.exe is classified as a safe application and for testing purposes also the file ../mmwindow/mmwindow.exe.

[WildCard]

9 hours ago, Ron C said:

I used the remove setting.reg tool.  It definitely resets everything to initial install including your points rests them to zero).

For non-steam clients it resets everything as the points are stored in the registry. Steam clients have their points and achievements stored in the steam account, so aren't affected.

Tower3D Remove External Window Settings.reg This file resets only the external window positions.

I managed to recreate the problem on my computer, and it is a bug with the game. Every time an external window is opened a new TCP server is created for that window, and is very CPU hungry. Closing the external window does not stop the server, so every window that is opened and then closed will start a new server that stays running until the game returns to the main menu. As more servers run, it makes it harder for the information to get to the new external windows and back to the game, this information includes the window size and position. Due to another bug in the game, when these external windows are closed, the server that was created for them become even more CPU hungry and tries to send even more data to the, now closed, window.

I managed to get this to happen after opening and closing about 6 windows on a Intel Core i5-9600K (Q4 2018), so a 10 year old AMD Phenom II X6 1055T (Q2 2010) will have difficulty after just a couple of external windows opening and closing, and may have trouble running more than 1 external window.

What does this all mean? For the best chance of success, only open the window once.
As a work-around, seeing as you are having trouble resizing the windows to get them setup, try setting up one window, exiting to the main menu, then setting up the next window (by itself), exiting to the main menu, then setting up the last window and exiting to the main menu. Then, if your computer can handle all 3 windows, you should now be able to open all of them and play. If your computer can't handle all 3 windows being open at once, then the window positions/sizes will probably get corrupted again, and you are back to the start.

Not the best of news, but I hope this helps you understand what is happening.

Cheers,

Daniel

p.s. Opening more than one external window of the same type at the same time almost guarantees that a problem will occur.

[Ron C]

Thank you for the effort you put in trying to help me. It does help me understand the situation better.  I’ll give what you suggested a try.  Can I try doing this for just the Strips and ADIRS windows since my DBRITE window appears to be transferring to the second monitor OK (I don't want to jeopardize something that appears to be working properly and assuming it will continue to do so)?  Also, would it be better to totally close the two other windows that I’m not trying to work on?

I also have two other dual monitor related questions that are probably related to the age of my CPU more than anything else:
1.  I was playing the simulation yesterday with the DBRITE on the secondary monitor and after about an hour its window would totally close.  I reopened it on the primary monitor using the control panel and then transferred it to the second monitor.  That lasted for about 3 minutes then the DBRITE window closed again and I had to repeat the same procedure.  After the third time this happened, I decided to exit out of the game (it was bedtime anyway).  Could this also be related to my older CPU and its interaction with the game?
2.  Could my old aged CPU also be the cause or a contributing factor causing the control panel game clock to slow down when one of the windows is opened on the second monitor (the game clock already loses about 4 to 5 seconds per minute of real time when all three windows are open on the primary monitor)?  The DBRITE and Strip windows slow the clock down a little when opened on the second monitor; however, it appears that that ADIRS window slows the clock down even more.

[crbascott]

Anytime the main screen loses focus (for example, clicking on the ADIRS without re-clicking on the main screen) the game clock/performance slows down.

Hopefully this is an area that will receive much needed attention in the next version.

[WildCard]

17 hours ago, Ron C said:

Can I try doing this for just the Strips and ADIRS windows since my DBRITE window appears to be transferring to the second monitor OK

Already answered. It just means you have set up the first window already.

On 7/12/2020 at 6:00 PM, WildCard said:

try setting up one window, exiting to the main menu, then setting up the next window (by itself), exiting to the main menu, then setting up the last window and exiting to the main menu.

 

17 hours ago, Ron C said:

Also, would it be better to totally close the two other windows that I’m not trying to work on?

Also already answered. See previous quote where I recommend exiting to the main menu instead of closing the window. I have also already given the reason for this.

 

On 7/12/2020 at 6:00 PM, WildCard said:

Closing the external window does not stop the server

 

On 7/12/2020 at 6:00 PM, WildCard said:

when these external windows are closed, the server that was created for them become even more CPU hungry and tries to send even more data to the, now closed, window.

So just closing the window instead of exiting to the main window is bad, and more likely to cause problems.

In answer to your questions.

1. See my last 2 quotes. Even when the window closes by itself, the server doesn't stop running, making new windows harder to keep open or even to just open.

2. Yes. It means that your computer takes 1min 4secs to process 1min worth of game data. ie. it can't quite process it in real time. Opening external windows will make this worse as they will now take a chunk of CPU time of their own. And as @crbascott said, moving the window focus to an external window will also slow down the game/main window. The reason for this is that the game window and the external windows are seperate programs and the operating system gives more CPU time to the window that has focus (the foreground process). I can't remember the exact percentages, but the foreground process will get up to about 80% of the CPU time and all of the background processes (this includes everything else running on the computer) get to share whatever is left over.

[Ron C]

I tried what you suggested.  It worked for the ADIRS, but I was still only getting the blank task bar window for the Strips (I’m assuming this is a registry problem again); I didn’t try it with the DBRITE since it is apparently displaying properly.

I think I’ve/we’ve all sent enough time on my issue for now.  Sounds like the bottom line for me is to get a new computer (I’m saving my pennies).  I’ll continue using the game as I have it setup now and maybe play around with the dual monitor issue later now that I have a better understanding of what is going on, how things work and your registry reset tool.  The way I see it, the worst case scenario for me until I get a new computer is winding up with only a single monitor capability (which I’ve basically already have had for about 8 months).

I also want to thank all the contributors for their comments, efforts and ideas in trying to help me solve this issue and for providing me a better understanding on the inter-workings of the game.

[707FAN]

Ron

One last Reply

I have a relatively new and fairly powerful setup. If I remember rightly, It took me a couple of goes to get the other screens to stay on the 2nd monitor. Once they wer there all was fine after that and still is.
One other thing is that this is the only game that stretches my PC as far as heat is concerned. It makes the CPU & graphic card work hard. Perhaps your CPU/GPU/RAM just does not have enough grunt to run 2 screens at a resonable frame rate. Sounds like it might be time for a new PC.

Kev

 

[Ron C]

Kev

Thank you for your input.  That makes sense and probably helps explain why many times my computer does start to get a little noisy when using the game.  My only concern with getting a new computer too soon is that I want to ensure I get one that will handle at least the recommended game requirements for the new Tower!XX (whatever they will be).  I don’t need a real high power machine as I’m not a gamer (I'm a simulator type of guy), but I do want to be able to enjoy all the aspects of the new simulation.  However, I know that this topic is also for another or future thread.

Ron