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Crystal Noir

[Tower!3D Pro] Manual and question

8 posts in this topic

Hi there, 

In fine I bought the 3d pro version of the game. However, I think that the manual is some way to light for a beginner. I saw that the 2011 Se manual is more dense and instructive. Do you think I can use it to help me understand some concept or for some commands ? I started read both. Already got some questions, like the heading command. I saw that we can tell pilots a heading (head the airport they want to reach) but I don't understand where I have this information (what is the heading of the airport they want to reach ?) some things like that.

So I wonder may be I could read both documentation and make sort of crossover of informations I will find.

Thank  you for your help.

(Sorry for my english).

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The manual for 2011 is more detailed and probably can provide some help to people playing Pro.

Regarding headings, the tower's responsibility is for the initial departure heading(s) based on the departure procedure filed as part of the flight plan. Getting to the destination airport is the pilot's responsibility along with the help of other ATC along the way.

For more information on departure headings and procedures I'd recommend visiting liveatc.net and listening to actual controllers and check out websites like airnav.com and flightaware.com and view the various charts available. Also, some folks have posted videos of their sessions with Pro - these can be useful training aids too. Watching videos would probably be the easiest way to learn commands and the different nuisances of the sim.

Craig

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Personally, the only time I use the heading commands are to direct aircraft out of each others way, for example if there is a go around .. or if controlling a tower with parallel runways that do not have minimum separation.  For example, when using KBOS in 2011, there is a noise abatement procedure for all jet aircraft departing runway 22L to turn left to 140 degrees.  I use that in the event that I have a prop taking off on 22R (not at exactly the same time as you'll get dinged) to widen the space between them - prop stays on 216, jet turns left away to 140.

 

There's so much going on, especially in 3D Pro, that I don't even have time to deal with heading changes, to be honest.  One thing I have noticed .. some aircraft refuse heading changes once airborne.  For example, I once had aircraft coming in at KLAX on 25L while I was departing 7L (wind picked up so a flipped the runways).  I departed 7L and request a turnout to the north (don't remember, maybe 040 degrees?).  Pilot responded, "Negative."  Could be because it had an established departure procedure?

 

One other note: in 3D Pro, aircraft DO use departure procedures and turn onto their proper headings (whatever they may be) but in 2011, they fly runway heading until off the map or until you instruct them to do otherwise.  I would agree that checking airnav.com to see the departure procedures is a good idea (they are about 3/4 down the page) .. will be things like, aircraft departing to the west, north, whatever tend to follow this pattern, etc.  However, since they're already set to that, why would we need to alter their heading?  

 

Sorry, just thinking out loud.  :p  I'm glad the command is there .. just don't see much need for it as tower control is rather limited - pretty much just clear in and clear out, let approach and departure deal with them!  I've got a disaster on my ramp to fix!  Lol

 

Don't know if this has been said either but, checking youtube for REAL ATC could be a help too .. to get a feel for the dialog.  Of course, what you hear there won't be what you must conform to in Tower - either version.  For example, you might hear ground instruct an aircraft, "Delta 929, echo to bravo short of victor" which in Tower would have to be split into 2 commands and altered: "Delta 929 taxi to ramp via echo bravo."  "Delta 929 hold short of taxiway victor."  That's something I'd like to see in the next version, the ability to issue taxi commands without defining the end point .. in the event the ramp is crowded and you need to route them around, like if you have departures and arrivals lined up together and an aircraft has already pushed back to exit the ramp, arrival can't get in but the departures need to keep moving so, taxi the arrival in a loop to come back around when the alleyway is clear.

 

Okay, ramble over .  :p

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10 hours ago, Methos said:

One thing I have noticed .. some aircraft refuse heading changes once airborne.  For example, I once had aircraft coming in at KLAX on 25L while I was departing 7L (wind picked up so a flipped the runways).  I departed 7L and request a turnout to the north (don't remember, maybe 040 degrees?).  Pilot responded, "Negative."  Could be because it had an established departure procedure?

There was a bug with anything less than 100 degrees that has been fixed with the latest SP.

Regarding your other comments I too have noticed that Pro does seem to have some departure procedures in place. However, in real life at JFK for example, there are some quicker turns that aren't quite replicated in the sim. That's about the only time I issue a departure heading. And in reality, at least at LAX and DFW, ATC will more than likely provide a RNAV fix clearance than an actual heading.

As Robert Plant would say, "Ramble On".

 

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When an arriving aircraft call you up, do you normally clear them to land right away. I dont know if this is correct procedure, but when they call me up I tell them "XXX enter final RWY XX" just so they know I am there on the freq but I cant clear them to land so early on in their approach. Normally in real life I guess your would say something like "XXX contuinue approach" and later on when they are closer to the airport and you know its clear you would clear them to land. 

I listen to KSAN live ATC the other day and it actually seem like the controller clears them to land basically right after beeing called upon every time, I dont understand this, if you clear someone to land can you minutes later clear another aircraft to takeoff on the same runway? In other words can you have a cleared for takeoff and cleared to land valid at the same time on the same runway as long as their is correct separation?

Mike   

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3 hours ago, mikced76 said:

When an arriving aircraft call you up, do you normally clear them to land right away. I dont know if this is correct procedure, but when they call me up I tell them "XXX enter final RWY XX" just so they know I am there on the freq but I cant clear them to land so early on in their approach. Normally in real life I guess your would say something like "XXX contuinue approach" and later on when they are closer to the airport and you know its clear you would clear them to land. 

I listen to KSAN live ATC the other day and it actually seem like the controller clears them to land basically right after beeing called upon every time, I dont understand this, if you clear someone to land can you minutes later clear another aircraft to takeoff on the same runway? In other words can you have a cleared for takeoff and cleared to land valid at the same time on the same runway as long as their is correct separation?

Mike   

This would depend upon the SOP at the particular airport and the given traffic situation.  If its not busy, they might very well clear him in immediately.  An even if there is some traffic, controllers are allowed to issue landing clearances based on a reasonable expectation that the runway will be clear by the time the plane will land.  That is to say they can issue a clearance before the previous landing  aircraft has vacated the runway as long as it appears that the plane will make its assigned exit with time to spare.  After all, if something changes, the controller can still issue a go-around if the need arises (and of course so can the pilot).

 

Andrew

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I don't know if this is official procedure or not but what I do is clear all aircraft to land as soon as they call.  Then if I have aircraft queuing for departure on the same runway (or parallel without minimum separation or crosswind runways) I will issue departure commands up until the arriving aircraft cross the 5 mile range circle.  That should ensure that there is plenty of time to clear the runway.

 

Gona have to listen in to some tower ATC now to see what they really do.  Mostly check out ground control, especially Kennedy Steve and the classic ...  :)

 

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Yeah, that's one of the best compilations out there.

 

Andrew

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