Real Colors Livery Update Packs

[Pedantic G]

All,

Now that no new airports will be produced in the current version of Tower! 3D Pro by either FeelThere and NygeresDesign, I have been thinking of way to provide and update for new airlines and liveries etc. for those that want to keep up to date with the real-world traffic in their schedules in this current version of the game.

I have been speaking with Gabor at NygeresDesign about an idea of how to update the Real Colors packs and we have jointly come up with the idea of potentially providing what will be known as Real Colors Livery Update Packs on 2 or 3 times a year basis. This would similar to the Retro Pack that NygeresDesign issued a while ago. The price per pack would be US$5.99

Our thoughts on this are as follows:

BASIC GENERAL RULES

- Requests for updates would be limited in the most part for airlines/flights that are operating into airports that are already been issued in the current version of the game.

- No one off or unique liveries would be considered

- No new airframes will be considered but Cargo variants (without windows) of current airframes already in game would be considered. Real Traffic would be updated IF a new cargo variant is added.

- New Airlines would need to be added to airport/airline files by the end user. This information will be supplied with the pack details and forum communications.

- Flights to be added to their schedules by the end user

- Circa 50 to 70 new additions would be in each pack as a minimum

I would collate I have listed a poll to gauge interest in this (closes at midnight 31st August) and I have also attached a spreadsheet I started to put together based on my looking at the monthly airline magazine I subscribe to and PM's already sent to me for additions based on my Tower! 3D Pro - Real Colors/Aircraft Master List by Airport  forum topic which I will continue to keep updated if people want to progress with this idea.

As Gabor is busy at present working on the models for the new version of the game the first one would more than likely not be issued until the initial version of TOWER! SIMULATOR 3 is released.

AT THIS STAGE PLEASE DO NOT SUBMIT TO ME ANY REQUESTS UNTIL I HAVE AGREEMENT TO PROCEED. 

If we get the green light with sufficient interest I will create a new topic to start the ball rolling.

Gary

RCLP1 List_Vs1.1.xlsx

[EliGrim]

This is a tough one.

My initial thought is that this will probably only be appealing for the people who already own all the airports and color packs.
Since this might be region and airport spanning packs, I would have to look very closely to see if there will be enough interesting in it for me personally, except it will be massive packs with 200 and more liveries.

Don't get me wrong, I am absolutely not against the idea. It certainly can't hurt to have the option to buy such a pack if wanted.
Personally, I likely wouldn't do it though and since the first pack will probably come out well after the release of the new Tower version, I doubt that it's a wise decision from a financial point of view to invest working time in these packs.

However, this is just my personal and a single opinion. I am curious what other community members think about it and will abstain from voting.

[crbascott]

3 hours ago, Pedantic G said:

As Gabor is busy at present working on the models for the new version of the game the first one would more than likely not be issued until the initial version of TOWER! SIMULATOR 3 is released.

Huh? No new packs until after Tower! Simulator 3 is released? What’s the point?

I could understand if this gave “us” something while we waited for the new release, but the proposed timing makes no sense to me at all.

[Pedantic G]

2 hours ago, crbascott said:

Huh? No new packs until after Tower! Simulator 3 is released? What’s the point?

I could understand if this gave “us” something while we waited for the new release, but the proposed timing makes no sense to me at all.

I did say more than likely but I guess that depends on timings of the new release and developer time available to make and for me to test the packs.

I guess not all people will switch to the new version anyway and although people moan and groan about the current version there are still a lot of people out there who enjoy the game for what it is and may want to keep abreast of new airlines and livery updates for this version. Just a idea to keep interest up. If not enough interest or NygeresDesign think the negative comments don't make it worthwhile or financial viable I have only wasted my time not others.

[Pedantic G]

5 hours ago, EliGrim said:

However, this is just my personal and a single opinion. I am curious what other community members think about it and will abstain from voting

Hi matey,

Thanks for the feedback and your personal views. I think others will share this and others will have a differing view, hence the poll to gauge interest.

Knowing this community it will be split down the middle between the dislike's of this version and others who still enjoy it. If its a non starter, then fair enough at least it keeps the interest up and I will crawl back under my rock and await the new version whenever that will be!

If the later at least I don't need to keep the Master List updated 🙃

Gary

 

[Braf123456]

6 hours ago, Pedantic G said:

Hi matey,

Thanks for the feedback and your personal views. I think others will share this and others will have a differing view, hence the poll to gauge interest.

Knowing this community it will be split down the middle between the dislike's of this version and others who still enjoy it. If its a non starter, then fair enough at least it keeps the interest up and I will crawl back under my rock and await the new version whenever that will be!

If the later at least I don't need to keep the Master List updated 🙃

Gary

 

hey i appreciate the hard work you have done to keep the game up to date

[Pedantic G]

8 hours ago, Braf123456 said:

hey i appreciate the hard work you have done to keep the game up to date he complains about everything dont let him get to you 

No worries Brad and appreciate the support. Definitely not wound up. 

I message with a lot of contributors offline on this forum and I know where most of them are coming from.

Everyone is entitled to their view and as long as it's not personal, is respectful and actually contributes to the debate and aids the community, all for the good.

G

[Braf123456]

44 minutes ago, Pedantic G said:

No worries Brad and appreciate the support. Definitely not wound up. 

I message with a lot of contributors offline on this forum and I know where most of them are coming.

Everyone is entitled to their view and as long as it's not personal, is respectful and actually contributes to the debate and aids the community, all for the good.

G

ok your welcome

[cwalfy1]

My problem with this is after the Retro pack came out NyergesDesign said they would be updating that with free add ons and we haven't seen a thing. I'm afraid we may be going the same way here. I realize we won't be paying for this until it's ready for distribution, but a lot of things fall through the cracks once the new Simm is out I'm afraid. This is taken from the Retro Pack discription off of NyergesDegins web page.  We are planning to add more retro airlines in the future, which can be downloaded and updated for free.

Charles

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by cwalfy1
additional info

[EliGrim]

@Braf123456 I have "grim" in my username, what do you expect? 😉

But all joking aside...
Please do me a favor and don't confuse criticism or a personal opinion with complaining; and even if I do complain, I don't do it without context and most likely for the reason that I care.
When I do criticize, which does happen, I will always try to justify that criticism and if possible make proposals for solutions or suggest improvements. However, this does not mean that I am automatically right. Not in general and not here.
Maybe my concerns, and that's all they are, are baseless and the packs will sell great.

Based on your reaction, I think you disagree with me and I'm interested in your opinion, and especially why you disagree. Maybe you have the better arguments and it would be a pity if you keep them for yourself. After all, this is an Internet forum which also lives on discussions and there naturally not every member will be of the same opinion.

[Braf123456]

47 minutes ago, EliGrim said:

@Braf123456 I have "grim" in my username, what do you expect? 😉

But all joking aside...
Please do me a favor and don't confuse criticism or a personal opinion with complaining; and even if I do complain, I don't do it without context and most likely for the reason that I care.
When I do criticize, which does happen, I will always try to justify that criticism and if possible make proposals for solutions or suggest improvements. However, this does not mean that I am automatically right. Not in general and not here.
Maybe my concerns, and that's all they are, are baseless and the packs will sell great.

Based on your reaction, I think you disagree with me and I'm interested in your opinion, and especially why you disagree. Maybe you have the better arguments and it would be a pity if you keep them for yourself. After all, this is an Internet forum which also lives on discussions and there naturally not every member will be of the same opinion.

it wasnt you i was talking about i deleted the comment sorry

[EliGrim]

@Braf123456 then I am reassured; you simply quoted the wrong reply then.
However, I am still interested in your opinion and I think it also helps Nyergesdesign if the community members give detailed input beyond the poll.

Of course, this is not just for you, but for everyone who participates in the poll or reads this. For Nyergesdesign it's probably not only about finding out if people like the idea, but also if the packs will be bought.

[Pedantic G]

11 hours ago, cwalfy1 said:

My problem with this is after the Retro pack came out NyergesDesign said they would be updating that with free add ons and we haven't seen a thing. I'm afraid we may be going the same way here. I realize we won't be paying for this until it's ready for distribution, but a lot of things fall through the cracks once the new Simm is out I'm afraid. This is taken from the Retro Pack discription off of NyergesDegins web page.  We are planning to add more retro airlines in the future, which can be downloaded and updated for free.

Charles

 

Hi Charles,

Thanks for your response.

Not a cop out but was not involved in the Retro Pack as from memory @hexzedran this for Gabor and I had not realised that the plan was for ND to release further updates for free on this one.

To be clear to all, IF this happens each release of a pack would be at the proposed cost on release to purchase, not a one off subscription buys all. A full description of what is included will be in release information and I of course would update my Master List at the same time for potential purchasers to make their own decisions to buy or not.

Gary

[crbascott]

@cwalfy1@Pedantic GAccording to the poll for the Retro pack, it was supposed to be a special one off release. However, @nyergesdesign clearly states on his webpage that the plan is for more retro airlines to be added in the future and downloadable for free. Since it is over a year later, I think he ether needs to remove the false advertising on the website or deliver as promised.

I know when the Retro Pack was released it didn't include what was originally stated or voted on by the community,. The reason stated was "mitigating factors". So, now we are being offered 50-70 planes for $5.99. Seems like a decent deal for those interested in playing the old game but in what timeframe will they be released and what future mitigating factors will be encountered? 

Also, for those of you into history and statistics - the poll for the retro pack concept was 22 for and 13 against. From my business and marketing experience, obviously not a large enough turnout to make a business decision on nor truly measure customer interest. But, I am sure there were other mitigating factors that influenced Nyerges Design to proceed with the project. 

[Braf123456]

6 hours ago, EliGrim said:

@Braf123456 then I am reassured; you simply quoted the wrong reply then.
However, I am still interested in your opinion and I think it also helps Nyergesdesign if the community members give detailed input beyond the poll.

Of course, this is not just for you, but for everyone who participates in the poll or reads this. For Nyergesdesign it's probably not only about finding out if people like the idea, but also if the packs will be bought.

I think it is a good idea 

[Ripskin]

I voted no, but I don't think you are crazy.  I also appreciate the support for the older game but personally will not put more cash into this version with its limitations and issues.  It is still fun but I can live with it how it stands and play around those known limitations (white planes at times) and other issues waiting for the new version.  

If the new game is not coming for years (possible of course) maybe a subsequent pack but how many airlines will be coming or going in that span to make multiple releases and folks justify the cost for each release.  

[WildCard]

I think it is an interesting idea. However, I think it could be made more enticing to include some General Aviation liveries for all the, currently, white GA planes, seeing as these packs would be general updates instead of airport specific. A lot of GA planes have "stock" factory paint jobs available.

[Pedantic G]

On 8/15/2021 at 7:13 AM, WildCard said:

I think it is an interesting idea. However, I think it could be made more enticing to include some General Aviation liveries for all the, currently, white GA planes, seeing as these packs would be general updates instead of airport specific. A lot of GA planes have "stock" factory paint jobs available.

Thanks for the suggestion and feedback.

Agree this could be a good addition as there is a precedent for this in the game with some of the GA jets in ExecJet (Net Jets) where some do have a livery. Think this would work with the "bigger" GA jet types as you would see the livery but think the smaller prop jobs would be difficult to see as they are so small in game play. The cargo feeder ones such as the FedEx feeder services in game look ok as slightly larger but as we all know the graphics quality in the current version is pretty poor (one of the improvements asked for in the wish list for Tower Sim 3).

There is interest out there for non corporate commercial airlines in game play, hence the addition of some business jet livery models in the potential first addition of this pack I added to this topic.

If the GA operators have a IATA/ICAO Code ( eg. ExecJet 1l/EJA) then can see no reason why not as would not want to "create" a plethora of codes as its bad enough with the Cargo ones that have been added since the new cargo models were added to game and is a particular dislike for some of the contributors in the forum as well,

Gary 

 

[EliGrim]

I like the idea.

A GA pack with factory or even fantasy liveries for light and medium aircraft, that would be a pack I would pay for. I wouldn't mind 50 or 60 new fake codes.

The pack should just come out well before the release of the new Tower version - if ever considered that is.

EDIT:
Even better would be a pack with default liveries for all aircraft models with either factory or believable fantasy paint jobs that are loaded if no other livery is found. For such a pack I would gladly pay 5 to 15 bucks - and I could imagine that other players would also be willing to do so if this would make the "white" planes disappear. Technically I see no problem to do this.

Edited August 15, 2021 by EliGrim

[WildCard]

No fake codes are needed for GA traffic from GAandLocalTraffic.txt file, they all use the IATA code ga (i.e. CNA._ga, CNF._ga, CNT._ga etc.). I'm talking about the things like some of the default thick red/blue pinstrip liveries on some Cessnas, Beechcraft's distinctive yellow etc.

@EliGrim Technically, default liveries for all aircraft types could be added to the default models in the Real Traffic pack, these would then be replaced by an airline livery if one is found. Edit: Being able to add the textures to the default planes via an external livery pack would require changes to the game code and we know that is not going to happen. 🙂

[Pedantic G]

2 hours ago, WildCard said:

I'm talking about the things like some of the default thick red/blue pinstrip liveries on some Cessnas, Beechcraft's distinctive yellow etc.

Must admit not really looked closely at the default GA liveries in game play as all appear white to me so will do some research. Have you a list of those that come up as xxx_ga in default loading?

G

[crbascott]

I don’t understand how you people can even see GA planes much less their liveries with the current version and it’s less than stellar graphics and minimal camera views.

Hmmm, if only there were a publicly available mod that would at least allow for better zoom and views. 😉

[WildCard]

2 hours ago, Pedantic G said:

Have you a list of those that come up as xxx_ga in default loading?

I'm not sure if you mean "Do I have a list of GA aircraft I would like to see factory liveries on?" or "Do I have a list of GA aircraft that the game currently puts liveries on?"

For the first: No I have not looked through all of the available aircraft types and created a list of those that I would like to have GA liveries for.

 For the second:

Quote

 

Full Real Color Manifest Master List in Aircraft Type Order
Type_Code	Airport	Text Pack	IATA Code	Airline Name
A332_ga	YMML	texpack_19	ga	Garuda Indonesia
A333_ga	YMML	texpack_19	ga	Garuda Indonesia
A333_ga	RJTT	texpack_24	ga	Garuda Indonesia
A333_ga	WSSS	texpack_35	ga	Garuda Indonesia
A339_ga	WSSS	texpack_35	ga	Garuda Indonesia
B738_ga	WSSS	texpack_35	ga	Garuda Indonesia
B777_ga	RJTT	texpack_24	ga	Garuda Indonesia
B77W_ga	RJTT	texpack_24	ga	Garuda Indonesia

 

As a test, I changed the second line in the RT tist_gaandlocaltraffic.txt file to

TIST, KLAX, 10:00, 332, 1N4634, 0, 0, 0, Nero 4634, NERO FOUR SIX THREE FOUR

and took this screenshot. I may or may not have used a custom mod to get the screenshot that only has the ability to move the camera without changing how the rest of the game functions. 😄

[EliGrim]

7 hours ago, WildCard said:

• I'm talking about the things like some of the default thick red/blue pinstrip liveries on some Cessnas, Beechcraft's distinctive yellow etc.
• Technically, default liveries for all aircraft types could be added to the default models in the Real Traffic pack..

That's pretty much what I mean. And yes, I would pay for a "colorful" Real Traffic pack. It doesn't have to be done via a Real Color pack.
Boeings and Airbuses could look like this for example:
https://www.boeing.com/commercial/newlivery/index.page (gallery and historic gallery for variation)
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/news/en/2021/05/More-flexibility-for-the-A320-Family-production-system.html
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/news/en/2021/04/The-ingenious-way-for-airlines-to-weather-the-storm.html
..and if no factory livery is available I am also okay with a fake livery. However, you will find at least concept liveries for each model. The same applies to the smaller (GA) aircraft of other manufacturers.
It could be released in the form of a Real Traffic Update pack that still requires the purchase of the original Real Traffic pack. I don't see any problems with technical realization.

[Pedantic G]

17 hours ago, WildCard said:

I'm not sure if you mean "Do I have a list of GA aircraft I would like to see factory liveries on?" or "Do I have a list of GA aircraft that the game currently puts liveries on?"

For the first: No I have not looked through all of the available aircraft types and created a list of those that I would like to have GA liveries for.

 For the second:

As a test, I changed the second line in the RT tist_gaandlocaltraffic.txt file to

TIST, KLAX, 10:00, 332, 1N4634, 0, 0, 0, Nero 4634, NERO FOUR SIX THREE FOUR

and took this screenshot. I may or may not have used a custom mod to get the screenshot that only has the ability to move the camera without changing how the rest of the game functions. 😄

So NOT a GA as such in this instance but GA Garuda Indonesia so that does not work as a GA aircraft, it's a commercial IATA code. 

Will do some further research on generic GA liveries in game. I am assuming rightly or wrongly that the generic General Aviation liveries are embedded in the RT overall airplane files and not individual airport files.